Bloody Sunday & the Saville Inquiry.

[The Grockle]

Great Britain = England, Scotland, Wales, (and all the small islands around it)

UK = The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

I see.

 

[Spanish Seagulls]

Whether it is the UK or GB it is this:

BBC News - Bloody Sunday report states those killed were innocent

There does seem to be some anti Irish sentiment on here (NSC) which I think is pretty sad.

 

[Tooting Gull]

From around which terrorists opened fire,to say nothing of the nail bombs being thrown from the crowd the paras returned fire with interest, unfortunately innocent civilians were caught in the crossfire,it just so happens sinn fein/ira have a better propaganda machine than us , and an even more willing public to lap it all up.

You appear to be the most gullible and easily fooled one here. After 38 years, it's official. They were shooting and killing those tending the injured and already dead. And if you seriously believe the armed forces don't have a propaganda machine, you are living in a fantasy world.

The Paras may have had many great days in the service of this country, but this one brought shame and disgrace on them, our forces and our nation. As always in these cases, it is the years of lies and cover-up that will have done the most damage to their reputation.

 

[User removed 4]

You appear to be the most gullible and easily fooled one here. After 38 years, it's official. They were shooting and killing those tending the injured and already dead. And if you seriously believe the armed forces don't have a propaganda machine, you are living in a fantasy world.

No, i'm one of the few on here who has actually been there and done a tour or two, you are the gullible one if you think they were going to spend £190 million and not come up with a result that satisfies and appeases the republicans. BTW , is it as 'official' and trustworthy as some of the other 'impartial' inquiries that new labour comissioned ? did you accept as fact the findings of all these ? or does it just suit your political leanings to accept the findings of this particular one ?

 

[Tooting Gull]

No, i'm one of the few on here who has actually been there and done a tour or two, you are the gullible one if you think they were going to spend £190 million and not come up with a result that satisfies and appeases the republicans.

I don't think gullibility comes into it in the slightest on that score. For £190million, you, me and everyone else would expect a result.

Not that I'm his biggest fan by a long way, but I respect Cameron for two things he did today. One was to praise in general the armed forces (knowing full well it would get a bad reception) while apologising for this one incident; the other was to state inquiries would never be as long or expensive again.

To focus solely on the cost is wrong, if you did that you would never uncover any serious wrongdoing by the establishment. But this one, at 12 years and £190m, takes the piss.

 

[Tooting Gull]

BTW , is it as 'official' and trustworthy as some of the other 'impartial' inquiries that new labour comissioned ? did you accept as fact the findings of all these ? or does it just suit your political leanings to accept the findings of this particular one ?

Sorry, what has that got to do with anything? Or are you lashing out wildly after a disappointing result for the Paras?

 

[ROSM]

No, i'm one of the few on here who has actually been there and done a tour or two, you are the gullible one if you think they were going to spend £190 million and not come up with a result that satisfies and appeases the republicans.

so just to be clear (and I've never even been to Northern Ireland let alone served there) are you saying that;

- the soldiers were firing in response to nail and petrol bombs
- none of the soldiers lied about their actions
- a warning was given by soldiers

because this as I understand it was the crux of the claims that has caused so much upset to the victim's families over the years. The army and british authorities at the time were saying these three things above whilst there were others who doubted them.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

There does seem to be some anti Irish sentiment on here (NSC) which I think is pretty sad.

I'm guessing here but it could be partly due to acts of terrorism carried out by an Irish minority, including the bombing of the Grand hotel in Brighton in 1984 and the Warrington bombing in 1993for example. ?

 

[Tooting Gull]

Bushy, I do respect the forces, I hope one or two of the things I've said back that up on this thread, but I'm not big into the army culture of cover-ups to save face when real wrongdoing has occurred. Maybe things have improved, I hope so. So I have a question for you, which you are well placed to answer.

If a colleague and a mate, a fellow soldier, standing next to you, started firing at civilians with no provocation and you were the only one that really saw what he had done, would you shop him under questioning?

 

[Guy Fawkes]

so just to be clear (and I've never even been to Northern Ireland let alone served there) are you saying that;

- the soldiers were firing in response to nail and petrol bombs
- none of the soldiers lied about their actions
- a warning was given by soldiers

because this as I understand it was the crux of the claims that has caused so much upset to the victim's families over the years. The army and british authorities at the time were saying these three things above whilst there were others who doubted them.

And there will continue to be doubts as both sides will continue to claim whichever suits their particular arguement /greviance / version of events, things could have been said but they were misheard, misinterpreted or not heard in the first place by other parties or the truth doesn't suit their propoganda / agenda

the only way it would be resolved was if there was actual sound recordings / video made which proved beyond a doubt one way or the other (which i doubt ever existed) so spending £200 million over twelve years on trying to decypher hearsay and rumour is pointless and a scandalous waste of money imo.

 

[Dandyman]

And there will continue to be doubts as both sides will continue to claim whichever suits their particular arguement /greviance / version of events, things could have been said but they were misheard, misinterpreted or not heard in the first place by other parties or the truth doesn't suit their propoganda / agenda

the only way it would be resolved was if there was actual sound recordings / video made which proved beyond a doubt one way or the other (which i doubt ever existed) so spending £200 million over twelve years on trying to decypher hearsay and rumour is pointless and a scandalous waste of money imo.

The dead, who were not PIRA members, were unarmed civillians who were not rioting when they were killed. They were subsequently accused of having nail bombs on them but has been proved to be a lie.

Bloody Sunday in addition to being an appalling incident in itself acted as a major spur to future violence as it convinced many Catholics/Republicans that peaceful protest would not gain them equal rights or a say in Northern Ireland's future. For that alone the military Brass and politicians should be condemned.

 

[Simster]

Bloody Sunday in addition to being an appalling incident in itself acted as a major spur to future violence as it convinced many Catholics/Republicans that peaceful protest would not gain them equal rights or a say in Northern Ireland's future. For that alone the military Brass and politicians should be condemned.

That's the crux of it for me. The decision to open fire led hundreds of Irishmen straight into the arms of the IRA

 

[pork pie]

That's the crux of it for me. The decision to open fire led hundreds of Irishmen straight into the arms of the IRA

Maybe they should have shot a few more then?

 

[Simster]

Maybe they should have shot a few more then?

Or maybe not shot at all, making it considerably harder for the IRA to justify use of guns and bombs?

 

[pork pie]

Whether it is the UK or GB it is this:

BBC News - Bloody Sunday report states those killed were innocent

There does seem to be some anti Irish sentiment on here (NSC) which I think is pretty sad.

Well, what do you expect? The IRA butchers having any support other from the left wingers, catholics or irish gypos in Brighton, or even England as a whole?

 

[Race]

depends on who you believe. i know for a fact that one of the soldiers who gave evidence said that "they responded to guys with guns. its convenient to lay the blame on us, but you take away the fact; we opened fire when we came under fire" also Martin Mcguinness and a number of IRA men admitted that they opened fire on soldiers but in that report it said that he didn't even though he had a sub-machine gun on him. of course it doesn't excuse what happened but it seems that there was only going to be one outcome to it.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

When i say warzone I am refering to Ulster as a whole, it may not have been a warzone in the conventional sence but it still happened at a time of war.

It's worth bearing in mind that this HUMAN RIGHTS march you refer to had decended into rioting so many of those shot were not just standing there with placards and megaphones they were pushing through baracades trying to get at the army.

Your final comment about there bring peace in Ulster is also a little naive.

If you consider it a war zone in any sense then by that definition the I.R.A aren't terrorists, they are the soliders of the side opposing the other soldiers involved in the incident.

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

You appear to be the most gullible and easily fooled one here. After 38 years, it's official. They were shooting and killing those tending the injured and already dead. And if you seriously believe the armed forces don't have a propaganda machine, you are living in a fantasy world.

The Paras may have had many great days in the service of this country, but this one brought shame and disgrace on them, our forces and our nation. As always in these cases, it is the years of lies and cover-up that will have done the most damage to their reputation.

That is complete and utter apologist horseshite. Forensic evidence showed that at least five of the dead terrorists had handled or fired a weapon - and the famous white hanky that was being waved? That had traces of gun oil on it as well. This panders to the Irish scum that took over a civil rights march and used it to try to kill British Soldiers. Those that deserved to die, tough shit, I would still piss on their graves. Those that were caught in the crossfire, it's a shame. Pity we don't have an enquiry this long and this expensive for every atrocity they carried out when the IRA killed innocents as well.

 

[HampshireSeagulls]

The dead, who were not PIRA members, were unarmed civillians who were not rioting when they were killed. They were subsequently accused of having nail bombs on them but has been proved to be a lie.

Bloody Sunday in addition to being an appalling incident in itself acted as a major spur to future violence as it convinced many Catholics/Republicans that peaceful protest would not gain them equal rights or a say in Northern Ireland's future. For that alone the military Brass and politicians should be condemned.

Nice and convenient ignoring of the statements even from that wanker McGuiness and the forensics that said that weapons were fired - ergo terrorists. Blame them for taking over a Civil Rights march and trying to kill British Soldiers then running and hiding under the cassocks of the priesthood like they always used to. No sympathy for the scum I am afraid, except for the innocents who died. At least 5 who got slotted had it coming.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

So much hypocrisy in these threads.