Blog on Albion finances....

[Easy 10]

The most shocking fact to me is that we now have the biggest debt of all the Championship clubs (£171m). The closest to that is Cardiff (£116m) then Blackburn (£104m). This despite the fact we have north of 25k coming through the gates every week, and have hardly been profligate in terms of transfer fees compared with many of the other big hitters. Wages to turnover has sprung up from 87% in 2011 to 111%, and whilst that's not quite piss-ripping proportions like Bournemouths 237%, or Brentfords 178%, anything even close to 100% just feels all wrong - and yet that is the reality of being able to compete at this level.

The numbers are truly scary.

 

[El Presidente]

I see the government may step in to reform the FA but will they really push money down to protect the smaller, lower league clubs?

It's the Premier League that generate the cash not the FA.

If you want to stop the crazy money at the very top the answer is simple, stop spunking £1,000 a year to Murdoch via Sky. If enough people cancel their subscriptions then the TV companies will reduce their bids for the rights.

 

[El Presidente]

The most shocking fact to me is that we now have the biggest debt of all the Championship clubs (£171m). The closest to that is Cardiff (£116m) then Blackburn (£104m). This despite the fact we have north of 25k coming through the gates every week, and have hardly been profligate in terms of transfer fees compared with many of the other big hitters. Wages to turnover has sprung up from 87% in 2011 to 111%, and whilst that's not quite piss-ripping proportions like Bournemouths 237%, or Brentfords 178%, anything even close to 100% just feels all wrong - and yet that is the reality of being able to compete at this level.

The numbers are truly scary.

Whilst the numbers look daunting, at least TB has something to show for it in the shape of the brand new Amex, Lancing and so on. When I go to Ewood tonight the debt may be 'only' £104m but the year will be 1972.

 

[Brovion]

I hear this argument time and time again, and whilst I see where you're coming from, it completely overlooks the bigger picture.

Yes, in the short term, the club will be in a stronger position if it is promoted to the Premier League. But the fact that all of the clubs in the Championship are losing money hand over fist shows that the football structure in this country in its present form is unsustainable. Clubs from all the leagues need to be sustainable or the pyramid will collapse, right down to grass routes level.

I very much hope the club realise this and will work to make the supply of resources more equitable, should we get promoted.

It really is like the UK as a whole in microcosm, with the very few rich getting richer and richer and the rest doomed to failure, despite so much potential.

Likewise I see where you're coming from, but with the increased revenue football in the Premier League IS sustainable. Indeed PL clubs could afford to let fans in free and still make money. So the relegated clubs (and those with rich benefactors) exist as a kind of de facto PL2 in the Championship taking it in turns to shuttle between that and the PL. As you say football outside that rarefied bubble will soon become unsustainable (if it isn't already) and could eventually collapse. And who in the rarefied bubble will give a shit?

 

[Nixonator]

The most shocking fact to me is that we now have the biggest debt of all the Championship clubs (£171m). The closest to that is Cardiff (£116m) then Blackburn (£104m). This despite the fact we have north of 25k coming through the gates every week, and have hardly been profligate in terms of transfer fees compared with many of the other big hitters. Wages to turnover has sprung up from 87% in 2011 to 111%, and whilst that's not quite piss-ripping proportions like Bournemouths 237%, or Brentfords 178%, anything even close to 100% just feels all wrong - and yet that is the reality of being able to compete at this level.

The numbers are truly scary.

That figure includes building a shiny new stadium though, from renting.

Usually when clubs get the go ahead on new stadiums they either build it on the land currently occupied, or sell the land for another site. We had nothing to sell. It was entirely provided for by an owner just as our last ground was taken away by one, or two.

 

[Easy 10]

Whilst the numbers look daunting, at least TB has something to show for it in the shape of the brand new Amex, Lancing and so on. When I go to Ewood tonight the debt may be 'only' £104m but the year will be 1972.

Plus ours is an interest-free "friendly" debt I guess, without deadlines for repayment as such, being as he just keeps converting chunks of it into shares.

I still let out a bit of WEE when I read it though.

 

[El Presidente]

Plus ours is an interest-free "friendly" debt I guess, without deadlines for repayment as such, being as he just keeps converting chunks of it into shares.

I still let out a bit of WEE when I read it though.

Absolutely. I think most of Rovers' debt is due to the Venky's, which is converted into fried chicken rather than shares..............probably.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

I hear this argument time and time again, and whilst I see where you're coming from, it completely overlooks the bigger picture.

Yes, in the short term, the club will be in a stronger position if it is promoted to the Premier League. But the fact that all of the clubs in the Championship are losing money hand over fist shows that the football structure in this country in its present form is unsustainable. Clubs from all the leagues need to be sustainable or the pyramid will collapse, right down to grass routes level.

I very much hope the club realise this and will work to make the supply of resources more equitable, should we get promoted.

It really is like the UK as a whole in microcosm, with the very few rich getting richer and richer and the rest doomed to failure, despite so much potential.

100% agree.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

but the year will be 1972.

What was wrong with the 70's.

Standing at football, Cheap beer and the missus at home straddling the twin tub.

What is not to like.

 

[El Presidente]

the missus at home straddling the twin tub.

What is not to like.

I think I have that in my 'vintage' film collection. The twin tub stops working, she phones for a plumber, and then the lather really starts to fly........

 

[Deleted member 2719]

I think I have that in my 'vintage' film collection. The twin tub stops working, she phones for a plumber, and then the lather really starts to fly........

Yeah yeah, that's the one and then the plumber has to ram his rod home to her shouting " your making a lot of mess, would you like me to clear it up".

Then all of a sudden he appears to feint................

 

[Nixonator]

It really is shit or bust this season. Once we're on the gravy train we should (fingers crossed!) be ok as then we'll have financial clout when we get relegated (as we will at some stage).

I hear this every time the albion is discussed, I heard it last year too.

No offence but I doubt TB and PB are thinking along the same lines as you. They will probably already have a plan no matter the outcome in May.

People are also over-dramatising what might happen with our players, as if the club will have a firesale and have to build an entire team from scratch.

If you imagine that we report another 26M loss this time next year, of which 13M is an FFP loss. It only takes the sale of Dunk (must be worth 15M+ now) to completely wipe out our FFP loss. We will obviously also lose Stephens for nothing, but that was a risk worth taking and will at least free up some wages. Next comes Knocky, which would be a devastating loss both on the pitch and off it since he has made a real emotional mark on the club and fans. Even still, we are talking another massive transfer fee of 15M+ which would wipe out our entire operating losses and put us in the green. Muzza's loan will end. Bruno potential retirement, though I think he could easily play another season.

The next worries would be Kayal and Solly (depending on his form this season). But I think we would have the resolve to keep them.

That's 4/5 players down, admittedly 5 majorly important players and fan favourites but it does not write us off from another promotion push if smart choices are made. We would STILL have a very strong first 11 which is testament to the squad we have assembled.

For instance, we could probably pick up Muzza, I can see that he might want to finish his career here.

 

[Official Old Man]

States catering would increase in turnover in the PL from £35K to £1.3 million. 5 times more people buying, caterers would never cope. Or would that be the prawn sandwich brigade in the new PL corporate seats?

 

[Brovion]

I hear this every time the albion is discussed, I heard it last year too.

No offence but I doubt TB and PB are thinking along the same lines as you. They will probably already have a plan no matter the outcome in May.

People are also over-dramatising what might happen with our players, as if the club will have a firesale and have to build an entire team from scratch.

If you imagine that we report another 26M loss this time next year, of which 13M is an FFP loss. It only takes the sale of Dunk (must be worth 15M+ now) to completely wipe out our FFP loss. We will obviously also lose Stephens for nothing, but that was a risk worth taking and will at least free up some wages. Next comes Knocky, which would be a devastating loss both on the pitch and off it since he has made a real emotional mark on the club and fans. Even still, we are talking another massive transfer fee of 15M+ which would wipe out our entire operating losses and put us in the green. Muzza's loan will end. Bruno potential retirement, though I think he could easily play another season.

The next worries would be Kayal and Solly (depending on his form this season). But I think we would have the resolve to keep them.

That's 4/5 players down, admittedly 5 majorly important players and fan favourites but it does not write us off from another promotion push if smart choices are made. We would STILL have a very strong first 11 which is testament to the squad we have assembled.

For instance, we could probably pick up Muzza, I can see that he might want to finish his career here.

I think you've missed my point which was: Assuming we fail to go up this year how will we compete for promotion when the clubs getting relegated from the PL in the future will be substantially richer than those who've been relegated to date?

 

[Peter Grummit]

States catering would increase in turnover in the PL from £35K to £1.3 million. 5 times more people buying, caterers would never cope. Or would that be the prawn sandwich brigade in the new PL corporate seats?

That was the increase when we moved from Withdean to the Amex....

 

[Uter]

The most shocking fact to me is that we now have the biggest debt of all the Championship clubs (£171m). The closest to that is Cardiff (£116m) then Blackburn (£104m). This despite the fact we have north of 25k coming through the gates every week, and have hardly been profligate in terms of transfer fees compared with many of the other big hitters. Wages to turnover has sprung up from 87% in 2011 to 111%, and whilst that's not quite piss-ripping proportions like Bournemouths 237%, or Brentfords 178%, anything even close to 100% just feels all wrong - and yet that is the reality of being able to compete at this level.

The numbers are truly scary.

Third highest in the entire country in fact. Only Man Utd (490m) and Arsenal (233m) owe more, though I suspect Spurs new stadium will see them overtake us.