[Politics] Black Lives Matters on shirts

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

It’s your money and obviously you can and will spend it how you wish. Nevertheless, if you choose to announce your choices publicly then it is not unreasonable for others to be surprised at and comment upon your actions.

Liam Rosenior is a decent journalist. I commented upon his ‘open letter’ to President Trump, which, I thought lacked much of the quality he has shown in the past. I or anyone else is certainly entitled to make a comment upon a published article.

Well I am pleased you think Liam is a good journalist and writer, I thought he was a great solid player for us, and the chin up is legendary now. His Dad should have manged us and I am pleased he got the chance at improving his chances of managing by going to Derby in a more senior role.

What a professional he was for us and his writing is so important right now in promoting change that is so needed. Yes, his writing is strong isn't it, pieces like this (where he is so praising of Bruno) https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2018/may/17/liam-rosenior-released-brighton-bitter-pill and he writes with emotion so perhaps this is what you read as being sarcastic.

Did you watch the bail project TED video as well, such a simple idea for such an antiquated system that punishes the poor. Yes like many I do not have much money at the moment but felt it is such a good project, and as you will see if you watch it, the money is reused again and again.

https://www.ted.com/talks/robin_steinberg_what_if_we_ended_the_injustice_of_bail?language=en

 

[Dr Bandler]

By and large I agree but then I think back to the debates earlier in the year around mental health issues being promoted through football. If even one person gained from that, it served a purpose. If just one person makes some kind of positive shift in their thinking because of the BLM message, surely it serves a purpose?

Not if you apply the priciple of "the greater good", and one person who changed for the better is counterbalanced by several who shift to extremism due to being pissed off with the demonstrations and general brow beating going on.

 

[Dr Bandler]

There is of course the unavoidable problem of the lack of a time-matched control, but to quibble over that in this case would be fatuous.This is one of those 'I was in ficking agony, then the doc gave me a shot of morphine and the pain went' moments.

Unfortunately the leg remained broken but that's a different problem. Or ist it?

All the best, Dr Thoughtful and Measured

Hi Harry. To take your analogy further, we could say that the patient (in the case humanity in general, or society in the USA in specific) will always have some sickness within it by its very nature. We cannot therefore say "oh well, never mind let's just live with it", but we have to use the most effective treatment available at the time to provide, as you say, pain relief, and hopefully some sort of healing. However, it ain't looking too hopeful one way or another at the moment.

I do think the USA version of humanity is a bit different, because the society is based so strongly on individualism, capitalism, self-reliance (and guns). It has created a place where it is indeed possible for anyone be entrepeneurial, work hard and succeed if they are determined (I think Schwarzenegger once said it is the easiest country in the world to get rich.) Indeed, sections of successive waves of immigrants have proved this. However, the law of polarity (ask me if you want) is in force which means there will also be comparitive poverty, drugs and violence at play , together with dissatisfaction, anger and in some cases a victim culture. This is why the American Coach Tony Robbins tries to encourage people to take power for themselves and ignore all the shit going on around them - a very American perspective.

This level of polarity is not so pronounced in countries like Japan (the psychology of which I studied during my degree course) or Denmark (where I spent some time working); both of which are more cohesive in some ways. I guess we are somewhere in the middle in the UK.

 

[Dr Bandler]

I'm not old enough but I have always been very interested in the history of the city.

Poor people have always committed most crimes, even in countries and areas where the police is very harsh. Sure, the broken window policy made more poor people go to jail and that is part of New York's "solution", but not a very humane one if you ask me as I believe jails should be reserved for people committing serious crimes rather than... well, breaking a window.

I think that the prosperity of the second half of the 90s and the globalisation that empowered the financial market, where New York always was an important city, played a much bigger role. The type of people who had previously been working in i.e. Domino's Sugar Refinery was replaced by the type of people working in i.e. Chase Bank. With the city and its population turning rich, massive gentrification took place and the poor people - who did most of the crime - were forced out of the city. They didnt stop being criminal because of some "broken window" policy - they just moved elsewhere.

If it wasnt for the late 90s being filled with optimism and prosperity in general, which is always reducing crime, I think there would have been a great surge (instead of the small one that happened) in crimes in cities where a lot of poor New Yorkers moved. As I see it, the change in New York was very likely due to either locking up or forcing poor people to places where they could not be seen, not a result of some "attitude change" caused by harsher policing, because harsher policing neither reduce poverty or anger/frustration which are the main cause of most types of crimes.

While you have a point that some part of particularly Manhatten went upmarket, e.g. the Upper West Side, that has not been the case in all boroughs. I also think you need to take into account that the policing wasn't just "harsher" but was supposed to be "community based" so that people got to know their local officers. Tony Blair like this idea and introduced fairly weak and ineffective Police Community Support Officers into the UK. He forgot the zero tolerance part though (apart from empty words).

I remember at the time working out a comparison of the ratio of police officers to head of population in both London and New York; and New York had roughly double. If you add on the Tory cuts in police numbers since then it is not a surprise our police service is hugely under strain and often looks like it cannot cope.

My conclusion is that it is not just the zero tolerance part that is effective, but adequate resources and being community based.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Hi Harry. To take your analogy further, we could say that the patient (in the case humanity in general, or society in the USA in specific) will always have some sickness within it by its very nature. We cannot therefore say "oh well, never mind let's just live with it", but we have to use the most effective treatment available at the time to provide, as you say, pain relief, and hopefully some sort of healing. However, it ain't looking too hopeful one way or another at the moment.

I do think the USA version of humanity is a bit different, because the society is based so strongly on individualism, capitalism, self-reliance (and guns). It has created a place where it is indeed possible for anyone be entrepeneurial, work hard and succeed if they are determined (I think Schwarzenegger once said it is the easiest country in the world to get rich.) Indeed, sections of successive waves of immigrants have proved this. However, the law of polarity (ask me if you want) is in force which means there will also be comparitive poverty, drugs and violence at play , together with dissatisfaction, anger and in some cases a victim culture. This is why the American Coach Tony Robbins tries to encourage people to take power for themselves and ignore all the shit going on around them - a very American perspective.

This level of polarity is not so pronounced in countries like Japan (the psychology of which I studied during my degree course) or Denmark (where I spent some time working); both of which are more cohesive in some ways. I guess we are somewhere in the middle in the UK.

Indeed. I'm no anthropolgists so my views on such matters have no more value than most folks' on Covid (including mine to be fair). Very interesting commentary, and not at odds with anything I have read or learned 'from experience'.

Something impressed on me by my first boss, who has travelled the world and lived in several countries was don't judge another culture by your own cultural standards. Something else I learned is that the culture of others clearly works for them or they'd bin it, so don't knock it till you try it. Later I realised that cultural inertial and the concentration of power in the hands of a minority can fix a culture in aspic. I need offer no examples, but parts of the middle East spring to mind. In fact this can be a problem anywhere since disruprive change frightens people.

America is an amazing country and as you say, the opportunities are limitless. I do think this applies without qualification only to whites, though. Yes, plenty of blacks doing well now, some perhaps never facing discrimination. But.....

I have no idea what the solution is. Nothing will happen with the republicans running both houses and the Oval office, though. Not that the democrats have ever done much themselves.

Personal empowerment is a nice idea, and special pleading, declaring war on the state and behaving like a did never got anywhere. But I see much more trouble before all Americans get a fair shake of the dice.

I followed up your references. Looks like a case of 'he may be a dick but he speaks the truth? '. Not sure there is any evidence he speaks the truth, though. Why is it that charlatans change their names to Robinson/Robbins?

2012 and 2016 fire-walking injuries.

On June 24, 2016, it was reported that "dozens were burned and required medical attention after attempting to walk on hot coals during a fire-walking event at a Tony Robbins seminar in Dallas, Texas". Several attendees were transported to medical facilities to treat burns, and a bus was used as a staging-area for between 30 and 40 people who were less seriously hurt. A spokeswoman for the Robbins organization stated, "Someone unfamiliar with the process of the fire-walk called 911 reporting the need for emergency service vehicles […] there was no need for emergency personnel […] only 5 of 7,000 participants requested an examination beyond what was readily available on site."

2019 sexual harassment and abuse allegations

In May 2019, an investigation by BuzzFeed News detailed accusations against Robbins of his sexual harassment of fans and staffers, such as groping fans at events, exposing his genitals to his assistants, and sexually harassing fans. As of that time, nine women had publicly accused Robbins of sexual misconduct. Robbins denied the allegations and also stated, "I have been the target of a year-long investigation by BuzzFeed. Unfortunately, your organization has made it clear to my team that you intend to move forward with publishing an inaccurate, agenda-driven version of the past, pierced with falsehoods."

In November 2019, BuzzFeed News published a six-part article accusing Robbins of molesting a teenage girl during his time as a "star speaker" at SuperCamp, an elite summer camp in southern California. The article claims the events took place in 1985 when Robbins was 25, and that there were at least two eyewitnesses. Other media outlets also reported on these allegations. Robbins denied wrongdoing and started to sue BuzzFeed News in Ireland. In response, BuzzFeed News said that they stand by their reporting and suggested that Robbins' decision to file the summons in Ireland was an "abuse" of the Irish court.

Please correct me if I have misunderstood. All this is from wikipedia, which is notoriously risk (litigation) averse....

 

[Dr Bandler]

exposing his genitals to his assistants[/I]

You mean you don't do that at work?

Seriously though, it is hard to know what to believe sometimes. Robbins has helped an enormous number of people through coaching (see many testimonials) and his amazing charity contributions, particulalry feeding hungry families all over the world. As far as I know none of the allegations have been proved yet, but if they are where does that leave us? I am reminded of the words from a Styx song:

Every night I say a prayer in the hope that there's a heaven
But every day I'm more confused as the saints turn into sinners
All the heroes and legends I knew as a child have fallen to idols of clay
And I feel this empty place inside, so afraid that I've lost my faith

I agree with your analysis of the situation in the USA - along the same lines as mine. I guess we are not going to fix the world today. I think maybe a walk in the Ashdown Forest is called for. See you later.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

ok mate , ill bow to your superior knowledge ....time will tell.

In three of your las4 4 posts you wrote 'time will tell'.

But will it, though?

Time will tell.

Edit: But will it though?

Time will tell.

 

[sydney]

In three of your las4 4 posts you wrote 'time will tell'.

But will it, though?

Time will tell.

Edit: But will it though?

Time will tell.

There are numerous reports of stabbings but apparently the MET are saying there weren't any .......videos of single white lads copping shoeings from BLM peaceful supporters are real though but not a juicy as a stabbing or a throat slashing , there are two similar videos each showing an average build , slim white, guy being attacked by mobs ....one is attacked by a guy in a white hoodie the other is a guy in a camouflage hoodie , they are seperate incidents ....the first one looks like the coppers intervened in time the second one i'm not so sure about , the guy looks like he's not getting up and there are women screaming before the video cuts out ......make of it what you will , either way it's another "peaceful" protest gone badly wrong.

 

[Eeyore]

There are numerous reports of stabbings but apparently the MET are saying there weren't any .......videos of single white lads copping shoeings from BLM peaceful supporters are real though but not a juicy as a stabbing or a throat slashing , there are two similar videos each showing an average build , slim white, guy being attacked by mobs ....one is attacked by a guy in a white hoodie the other is a guy in a camouflage hoodie , they are seperate incidents ....the first one looks like the coppers intervened in time the second one i'm not so sure about , the guy looks like he's not getting up and there are women screaming before the video cuts out ......make of it what you will , either way it's another "peaceful" protest gone badly wrong.

There are also reports of Chelsea Pensioners being attacked.

I took time to run the timeline of one of them and found it originated from a very far right account that was prone to major exaggeration.

I'm more inclined to trust the MET (and that's hard given my experience of them) than some dodgy Twitter accounts.

Some of the, I don't know what to call them, were attacked by black guys. That's evident. But the more extreme stuff hasn't been verified.

The reports on a peaceful picnic being attacked have been verified in footage though. (Although, in balance some tried to stop things from escalating).

[tweet]1271837543395397632[/tweet]

Uncomfortable watching by the way. A few happily violent white and black guys attacking each other doesn't have the same effect.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

There are also reports of Chelsea Pensioners being attacked.

I took time to run the timeline of one of them and found it originated from a very far right account that was prone to major exaggeration.

I'm more inclined to trust the MET (and that's hard given my experience of them) than some dodgy Twitter accounts.

Some of the, I don't know what to call them, were attacked by black guys. That's evident. But the more extreme stuff hasn't been verified.

The reports on a peaceful picnic being attacked have been verified in footage though. (Although, in balance some tried to stop things from escalating).

[tweet]1271837543395397632[/tweet]

Uncomfortable watching by the way. A few happily violent white and black guys attacking each other doesn't have the same effect.

Completely agree.

The picnic video is the most uncomfortable thing I’ve seen through all of this. Everything else has involved people either looking for trouble, or at very least putting themselves in situations where they knew some friction was likely.

This is just random people out enjoying a park, senselessly bullied and harassed by a large group of scum. You watch it aware that it could just as easily to happen to any of us, and that is disquieting.

Utter *****.

 

[Baker lite]

Completely agree.

The picnic video is the most uncomfortable thing I’ve seen through all of this. Everything else has involved people either looking for trouble, or at very least putting themselves in situations where they knew some friction was likely.

This is just random people out enjoying a park, senselessly bullied and harassed by a large group of scum. You watch it aware that it could just as easily to happen to any of us, and that is disquieting.

Utter *****.

This.

 

[Springal]

Completely agree.

The picnic video is the most uncomfortable thing I’ve seen through all of this. Everything else has involved people either looking for trouble, or at very least putting themselves in situations where they knew some friction was likely.

This is just random people out enjoying a park, senselessly bullied and harassed by a large group of scum. You watch it aware that it could just as easily to happen to any of us, and that is disquieting.

Utter *****.

Agreed. Terrible viewing and what those absolute cretin bullies think they are doing. What are they actually achieving ? Ooh well done you attacked some women? Scum bags.

At least there is video evidence of this though... unlike make believe stabbings some have dreamt up ?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Time will tell....

Time is ticking......

I'll pop back tomorrow to see what's tocked.

 

[Tokyohands]

I think there are too many tributes in general. So this week its BLM, next week it's a minutes silence for Mrs Tibbins cat.....can we just focus on the game please!?

 

[hart's shirt]

I think there are too many tributes in general. So this week its BLM, next week it's a minutes silence for Mrs Tibbins cat.....

#ninelivesmatter

 

[Mo Gosfield]

BLM on the back of shirts is just a step too far. Players should have their names displayed clearly for easier identification. Its purely borne out of bandwagon over-sensitivity. The media take great delight in interviewing protest leaders ( usually white/black middle class youngsters who haven't bothered to study the civil rights movement or the history of slavery and are all bored shitless by not being in college or university ) Its the same pat answer all the time...' its not black v white....its black and white v racism ' Well that's great unless you are part of a movement called...' Black Lives Matter '....which is actually in danger of continuing to re-emphasise the colour divide, instead of trying to move away from it....' I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the colour of their skin but by the content of their character ' ( 1963 ) There will always be racial prejudice. Its part of the human character. Its in every country in the world. Sometimes its country v country. Sometimes its area v area. Sometimes its just small groups of people v other small groups of people. What we are all trying to eradicate is colour prejudice not keep re-emphasising it.
Protestors need to focus their efforts on policing, particularly in the USA. They need to push for reform. They need to assess how to change the mentality of a gun crazy society that sees policemen shooting people at the drop of a hat. Address the structure and attitude of policing in the USA. Find a system that doesn't see rogue policemen quickly re-employed elsewhere ( 18,000 different forces....ridiculous ) Address the gun laws and face up to your responsibility as the most powerful Western nation on earth. The ignorant, uninformed and bigotted have hi-jacked the BLM movement, as much from within, as without, The public damage, the misguided targetting of statues, the hysteria and the provocation has only served to alienate many. Very little will be achieved unless you get to the root core of the problem.

 

[Is it PotG?]

I think that the cardboard cut outs in the East Upper should all be 'doing the kneel'.

My photo has been submitted doing so.

 

[sydney]

Time will tell....

Time is ticking......

I'll pop back tomorrow to see what's tocked.

time is infinite old boy......would you like me to send you the video and you can make your own mind up..??

 

[sydney]

Agreed. Terrible viewing and what those absolute cretin bullies think they are doing. What are they actually achieving ? Ooh well done you attacked some women? Scum bags.

At least there is video evidence of this though... unlike make believe stabbings some have dreamt up ?

Evidently this may have been a hoax in which case it's sucked a lot more people in than just me, it certainly wasn't dreamt up seeing as there were pictures and video of a black lad in a white hoodie brandishing what appears to be a shiv of some sort.....happy to forward the video ....it's not the one you screen shot, hope there's not much more of this bullshit and that the football helps to return the country back into some sort of normality , although to one honest , i think we have seen the last of any form of normality for quite some time.

 

[Wozza]

I think that the cardboard cut outs in the East Upper should all be 'doing the kneel'.

My photo has been submitted doing so.

You're not going to have a v good view.