[Misc] Bizarre visiting supporter today

[hart's shirt]

Noun
Oriental (plural Orientals)

1. A precious stone, especially an orient pearl. [from 14th c.]
2. A member or descendant of the peoples and cultures of the Orient. [from 15th c.]
3. A lily cultivar of a widely varied group, with strong scent.
4. (archaic) A person from the eastern region of a place. [15th-19th c.]

Usage notes
Use of the term Oriental to describe a person is considered dated and offensive in North America.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Oriental#English

So whilst it's "considered dated and offensive in North America", it's not generally considered offensive outside of there.

 

[Jaxie]

This is partly why I often don't bother with the 45 quid plus cost against the big teams. So many bloody tourists.

At the Liverpool home game last season I had a guy and his son next to me with Liverpool hats on. Openly talking about Their Team. And noticed loads of others.
Nothing against away fans going in the home end, I had to do it myself enough times in the last couple of seasons. But have some respect!

 

[The Clamp]

Noun
Oriental (plural Orientals)

1. A precious stone, especially an orient pearl. [from 14th c.]
2. A member or descendant of the peoples and cultures of the Orient. [from 15th c.]
3. A lily cultivar of a widely varied group, with strong scent.
4. (archaic) A person from the eastern region of a place. [15th-19th c.]

Usage notes
Use of the term Oriental to describe a person is considered dated and offensive in North America.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Oriental#English

So whilst it's "considered dated and offensive in North America", it's not generally considered offensive outside of there.

I disagree. My sister in law is Chinese and doesn’t like being called Oriental.

It’s a common and entrenched mistake that has been perpetuated for many many years. Offence is a personal thing but it is incorrect . I had no idea it was outdated in North America. I was taught at school some 30+ years ago that it is incorrect use of language.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Well, very few Western people would get upset by it but you are effectively calling a person "it". I can't say I'd like to be referred to as "it". It's not racist, it's incorrect and it's rude.

If people are happy to continue to be wrong even after they have been politely corrected then yes, that's fine. I suppose it depends on what standards one holds oneself to.

What are you talking about nibble?

Should I have said he was Japanese? Chinese? Korean? I have no idea what nationality he was hence I referred to him as oriental...he looked like an individual from the orient ( chance for enrest to make a funny joke about Leyton)

Sometimes there are some ****wits on this board.

 

[The Clamp]

I

What are you talking about nibble?

Should I have said he was Japanese? Chinese? Korean? I have no idea what nationality he was hence I referred to him as oriental...he looked like an individual from the orient ( chance for enrest to make a funny joke about Leyton)

Sometimes there are some ****wits on this board.

No need to be abusive thank you, Pastafarian.
East Asian would be the nomenclature you’re looking for.
I have explained it a couple of times now. Some have agreed, some have disagreed as is healthy but it’s not that hard to actually understand what I have said. For most people.

 

[Curious Orange]

Has been used or can be used?

None that I have read have suggested that it is no longer used as a noun. There are online definitions that say it could be considered offensive or derogatory, but that mainly seems to be a North American definition.

In all honesty this thread is the first time I have ever seen it suggested that the word was either offensive or couldn't be used to describe someone's ethnicity, and it turns out that in the UK context neither is necessarily true. But what do I know, I just looked it up.

 

[Dave the OAP]

I have explained it a couple of times now. Some have agreed, some have disagreed but it’s nit that hard to actually understand what I have said. For most people.

Really so what should I have put then Genius? This chines bloke....this yellow bloke...this slitty eyed bloke

See, so I tried to refer to someone as oriental as he appeared to have come from the Orient, i.e. SOuth Asia, yet you choose to make a point about it ..


I think that says more about you than anyone else on here.

 

[swindonseagull]

What are you talking about nibble?

Should I have said he was Japanese? Chinese? Korean? I have no idea what nationality he was hence I referred to him as oriental...he looked like an individual from the orient ( chance for enrest to make a funny joke about Leyton)

Sometimes there are some ****wits on this board.

My wife is Asian / oriental / Filipina.....shes not uspet being called Oriental......

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

Oriental / Occidental. - 'occident' is from the Latin term for the west, originally meaning 'falling', 'setting' or 'perishing' (as in sunset); 'orient' is from the Latin term for the east, originally meaning 'rising' or 'emerging', (as in sunrise). The term Oriental is often used to describe objects from the Orient. However, given its Eurocentric connotations and shifting, inaccurate definition through the ages, it may be considered offensive as a label for people from Asia.

 

[The Clamp]

Really so what should I have put then Genius? This chines bloke....this yellow bloke...this slitty eyed bloke

See, so I tried to refer to someone as oriental as he appeared to have come from the Orient, i.e. SOuth Asia, yet you choose to make a point about it ..


I think that says more about you than anyone else on here.

I’m not saying don’t use it. I’m not saying it’s offensive. I’m saying it’s incorrect. You’re the one making an argument out of it.
Anyway, you should be thanking me. My knowledge on the subject has taken one of your characteristically dull as ditchwater threads and made it into something approaching interesting.
Plus you get to learn something and paradoxically continue to be pig ignorant. What a wonderful world we live in.

 

[hart's shirt]

I disagree. My sister in law is Chinese and doesn’t like being called Oriental.

It’s a common and entrenched mistake that has been perpetuated for many many years. Offence is a personal thing but it is incorrect . I had no idea it was outdated in North America. I was taught at school some 30+ years ago that it is incorrect use of language.

You're perfectly entitled to disagree here.

The South Korean family with whom I'm going to watch some Asian Cup games with have no problem being described as Asian, Korean or Oriental.

It's a bit like being called English, British or European.

All can be simultaneously accurate descriptions, although some may have a particular preference, especially in the current political clime.

 

[The Clamp]

You're perfectly entitled to disagree here.

The South Korean family with whom I'm going to watch some Asian Cup games with have no problem being described as Asian, Korean or Oriental.

It's a bit like being called English, British or European.

All can be simultaneously accurate descriptions, although some may have a particular preference, especially in the current political clime.

As I’ve said. Whether anyone finds it offensive or not is not the point I’m raising. The point I’m making is it’s incorrect use of language.

 

[Curious Orange]

As I’ve said. Whether anyone finds it offensive or not is not the point I’m raising. The point I’m making is it’s incorrect use of language.

You'll presumably concede the use of language point now though, given the consensus of the various dictionary definitions?

 

[hart's shirt]

As I’ve said. Whether anyone finds it offensive or not is not the point I’m raising. The point I’m making is it’s incorrect use of language.

Offence doesn't come into it at all with Ilsam and his family. There's nothing to be offended about.

They would say that they're from Korea, from Asia and from the Orient, and would describe themselves as Koreans, Asians and Orientals.

And they're quite correct...

"In British English, the term Oriental is sometimes used to refer to people from East and Southeast Asia (such as those from China, Japan, Korea, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Mongolia and Laos). "Asian" in Great Britain and Ireland generally refers to people that come from South Asia (in particular Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Maldives) since British Asians make up approximately 6.9% of the population within the United Kingdom.[16] "Orientals" refers exclusively to people of East and Southeast Asian origin, who comprise 0.7% of the UK population as a whole, and 5.3% of the non-European population. Of these, the majority are of Chinese descent.[17] It is not generally considered to be an offensive term and is indeed used by the British police and other agencies to describe persons of East or Southeast Asian appearance. Orient is also a word for the lustre of a fine pearl.[18] Hong Kong, a former British colony, has been called "Pearl of the Orient".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orient

 

[The Clamp]

You'll presumably concede the use of language point now, given the consensus of dictionary definitions?

No, I maintain I’m correct I’m afraid. It’s a long perpetuated mistake.

As an aside, it’s rather a useful term as we all know who is being described but it is incorrect and therefore I don’t use it.

 

[Commander]

I wonder* how many club’s message boards in the country would have descended into this line of argument from this thread. People telling other people who should and shouldn’t be offended (on behalf of others, none of who are even close to fitting the demographic mentioned) by which particular (completely well-meaning) term.

2018 is a very strange place.




*I don’t really, Brighton is unique.

 

[The Clamp]

Offence doesn't come into it at all with Ilsam and his family. There's nothing to be offended about.

They would say that they're from Korea, from Asia and from the Orient, and would describe themselves as Koreans, Asians and Orientals.

And they're quite correct...

"In British English, the term Oriental is sometimes used to refer to people from East and Southeast Asia (such as those from China, Japan, Korea, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Mongolia and Laos). "Asian" in Great Britain and Ireland generally refers to people that come from South Asia (in particular Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Maldives) since British Asians make up approximately 6.9% of the population within the United Kingdom.[16] "Orientals" refers exclusively to people of East and Southeast Asian origin, who comprise 0.7% of the UK population as a whole, and 5.3% of the non-European population. Of these, the majority are of Chinese descent.[17] It is not generally considered to be an offensive term and is indeed used by the British police and other agencies to describe persons of East or Southeast Asian appearance. Orient is also a word for the lustre of a fine pearl.[18] Hong Kong, a former British colony, has been called "Pearl of the Orient".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orient

Yes. It’s “sometimes used”.

It’s not correct.

And I am willing to concede I may be wrong here but I don’t t think the police do use the term “oriental” to describe people. I believe they use a system of IC codes to avoid these exact discussions or accusations of offence/racism etc. “Orientals” or Asians would I believe be IC5’s. I think but I’m not certain.

 

[The Clamp]

I wonder* how many club’s message boards in the country would have descended into this line of argument from this thread. People telling other people who should and shouldn’t be offended (on behalf of others, none of who are even close to fitting the demographic mentioned) by which particular (completely well-meaning) term.

2018 is a very strange place.




*I don’t really, Brighton is unique.

Whose telling anyone to be offended?

Oh and heads up: it’s 2019.

 

[Curious Orange]

No, I maintain I’m correct I’m afraid. It’s a long perpetuated mistake.

As an aside, it’s rather a useful term as we all know who is being described but it is incorrect and therefore I don’t use it.

Well, that is a choice you are allowed to make.

 

[The Clamp]

Well, that is a choice you are allowed to make.

For a man with my education correct use of language is not a choice.