[Football] Birmingham Sack Rooney (02/01/2024)

[pasty]

Breaking news: Birmingham City change their name to Wayne Rooney’s Birmingham

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Suddenly they get new owners and the fans have hope. They buy the ground back, they start repairing it. having not had a penny spent on it for probably 20+ years and there is a feel good factor returning. Indeed in many ways it does sound like Dick Knight and chums. Then they make this decision about sacking Eustace and the jury is really out on that from what I read and risks gambling the goodwill the new owners had built up. But their plans for the club are significant, including looking at a large site nearby for a new stadium, and you can expect a lot of change there in the next few years.

The Eustace / Rooney decision aside, I'd be quite happy to see a Birmingham renaissance. Ideally I'd like to see Villa relegated to the second (or fourth) biggest team in the city. the twats.

 

[GT49er]

"No outward signs of managerial ability."

Granted, they are walking definitions of yesterday's men and long outstayed their welcome, but regardless this doesn't stand up to any scrutiny whatsoever.

Bruce's record was excellent until maybe the last 3 or 4 years of his managerial career, and Pulis and Allardyce were huge successes at Stoke and Bolton. Pulis was called "Stoke's greatest ever manager" by their chairman in 2011 (9th 3 years in a row, FAC final, Europa league football), Allardyce took Bolton to 5th, a League cup final and Europe.


Call me when Rooney, Gerrard and Lampard can hold a candle to those records.

Beat me to it. Spot on! Some people have very short memories!

 

[Colonel Mustard]

I agree it was a bad idea to sack Eustace. I wouldn't be quite so dismissive of Rooney though. I know a Derby fan who grew to like Rooney and thought he did a much better job there than he got credit for -- and certainly better than Lampard. I'm told he was much more communicative and seemed much more engaged with the fans and the town, and nearly saved them. Not enough to presume he'll be a success but enough to give him a chance perhaps.

 

[Gwylan]

I agree it was a bad idea to sack Eustace. I wouldn't be quite so dismissive of Rooney though. I know a Derby fan who grew to like Rooney and thought he did a much better job there than he got credit for -- and certainly better than Lampard.

I wonder how much of that was down to Rosenior though - there was a widespread belief that he was the brains behind the team.

 

[PeterT]

Interesting insight thank you for that. Could you clarify how Monk staying would have meant they got nothing for Bellingham? I got curious about Monk as I hadn't heard his name for a while, seems he had a pretty decent record at all of his clubs but has been out of work for 3 years for some reason

The accusation was that Monk was very closely linked to an agent and was getting handsomely rewarded for such contacts, which meant certain players got signed and played, and those he had no such connection with did not. It was alleged that he effectively had his hands in the till. The owners (and Bellingham’s family) knew Bellingham’s worth and wanted him playing regularly especially as due to his age and contract he could have left the club at any time for about £250k. Monk allegedly refused to play him, on a regular basis at least, and that hastened his exit along with the other allegations. He was replaced by his assistant, Pep Clotet, who Monk then fell out with yet Clotet played Bellingham from day 1 and the rest is history.

Incidentally Blues got a lot of stick for retiring the number 22 when Jude left. But, in addition to the fact that they knew he was destined for future stardom, he single handedly kept the club in business during Covid. He and his family insisted that Blues were paid the going rate for the transfer, which has turned out to be about £35m, yet due to his age and contract he could have still left for a ’youth fee’. He (and his family) did that because he had been there since about age 7 and wanted to do what he could for them on exit rather than screw them into the ground as others might have done. That money, initially £25m, kept the club afloat during Covid amongst massive losses run up by the faceless Chinese owners and without it there’s a real chance the club would have gone bust. He will forever be a hero to Blues fans for that alone, never mind what he goes on to achieve.

As for today, the Rooney decision is a bizarre one and I suspect Blues fans are split on it. The new owners are highly ambitious and were always going to appoint their own man. Whether he is the right choice remains to be seen but at least the current owners have a vision that isn’t about asset stripping the club as it has been for the last 10+ years. No Blues fan you ever meet will ever say the ownership over those years has been anything other than corrupt or incompetent, nor are they a fan base that will ever be anything but grounded and realistic about the club and its prospects. It will be interesting to see how the ambitious US owners and the realistic/downcast Blues fans get on. One thing in their favour is that the new CEO Garry Cook (ex Man City and ex Saudi League supremo) is a Blues fan from birth and not a Chinese/Cambodian with no interest, knowledge or competence to offer.

I should also highlight that Blues had their own ‘Paul Samrah’ who uncovered the ropy dealings of the previous ownership and worked day and night to get them out. Daniel Ivery is his name, almajir.net his website. If you think Blues fans have had it easy and these strange ownership and managerial decisions are down to them and so they get what they deserve then think again.

Rooney may be a disaster, he may turn out to be a great appointment. However what I do know, from what I know, is that for the first time in a long time that club and its fans do have hope.

 

[levs]

The accusation was that Monk was very closely linked to an agent and was getting handsomely rewarded for such contacts, which meant certain players got signed and played, and those he had no such connection with did not. It was alleged that he effectively had his hands in the till. The owners (and Bellingham’s family) knew Bellingham’s worth and wanted him playing regularly especially as due to his age and contract he could have left the club at any time for about £250k. Monk allegedly refused to play him, on a regular basis at least, and that hastened his exit along with the other allegations. He was replaced by his assistant, Pep Clotet, who Monk then fell out with yet Clotet played Bellingham from day 1 and the rest is history.

Incidentally Blues got a lot of stick for retiring the number 22 when Jude left. But, in addition to the fact that they knew he was destined for future stardom, he single handedly kept the club in business during Covid. He and his family insisted that Blues were paid the going rate for the transfer, which has turned out to be about £35m, yet due to his age and contract he could have still left for a ’youth fee’. He (and his family) did that because he had been there since about age 7 and wanted to do what he could for them on exit rather than screw them into the ground as others might have done. That money, initially £25m, kept the club afloat during Covid amongst massive losses run up by the faceless Chinese owners and without it there’s a real chance the club would have gone bust. He will forever be a hero to Blues fans for that alone, never mind what he goes on to achieve.

As for today, the Rooney decision is a bizarre one and I suspect Blues fans are split on it. The new owners are highly ambitious and were always going to appoint their own man. Whether he is the right choice remains to be seen but at least the current owners have a vision that isn’t about asset stripping the club as it has been for the last 10+ years. No Blues fan you ever meet will ever say the ownership over those years has been anything other than corrupt or incompetent, nor are they a fan base that will ever be anything but grounded and realistic about the club and its prospects. It will be interesting to see how the ambitious US owners and the realistic/downcast Blues fans get on. One thing in their favour is that the new CEO Garry Cook (ex Man City and ex Saudi League supremo) is a Blues fan from birth and not a Chinese/Cambodian with no interest, knowledge or competence to offer.

I should also highlight that Blues had their own ‘Paul Samrah’ who uncovered the ropy dealings of the previous ownership and worked day and night to get them out. Daniel Ivery is his name, almajir.net his website. If you think Blues fans have had it easy and these strange ownership and managerial decisions are down to them and so they get what they deserve then think again.

Rooney may be a disaster, he may turn out to be a great appointment. However what I do know, from what I know, is that for the first time in a long time that club and its fans do have hope.

Fascinating stuff thank you, great to get some actual insight into the situation rather than titbits and generalisations. Personally I wish them well, never had any issue with the club or their fans and I particularly enjoyed their League Cup win over Arsenal.

It's nice to hear about the way Bellingham handled his departure, there's something there that a lot of players could learn from.

If those allegations are true it does explain why Garry Monk has been out of work for so long, even without the alleged dodgy dealings not playing Bellingham is a sackable offense in itself.

 

[AZ Gull]

 

[PeterT]

Terrible start for Rooney, the fans up there are splitting blood at the moment as most didn’t want him appointed in the first place. Sounds like he is trying to change the formation with players not good enough to do that.

 

[keaton]

Perhaps I am harsh.

But what makes you think the new owners are the equivalent of Dick Knight and chums?

For me to be a shitehouse cub you need owners with a ridiculous level of entitlement. Sacking a manager when in the top six in the Championship (Rowett) to replace him with a more well-known person, is shitehouse. It is a far cry from the Archer years at Brighton.

When this malarkey goes on year after year the club becomes shitehouse. Now they have repeated the Rowett trick, with new owners....well, what sort of club is that?

We are talking nearly 10 years of tomfoolery here.

Can I just check that I haven't missed something and you meant Archer or Bellotti not Dick Knight?

 

[crodonilson]

The Eustace / Rooney decision aside, I'd be quite happy to see a Birmingham renaissance. Ideally I'd like to see Villa relegated to the second (or fourth) biggest team in the city. the twats.

Fourth, who are the other 3?? Villa will always be the biggest side in Birmingham and in the wider midlands area by some distance, their support is huge.

 

[Is it PotG?]

Fourth, who are the other 3?? Villa will always be the biggest side in Birmingham and in the wider midlands area by some distance, their support is huge.

And as hard as nails.....

 

[PeterT]

Fourth, who are the other 3?? Villa wull always be the biggest side in Birmingham and in the wider midlands area by some distance, their support is huge.

Aston historically was not part of Birmingham, hence why they were called Aston. They attract supporters from out of the city in a way that Blues do not. I wouldn’t take the word ‘always’ in there, they haven’t really been challenged by the other clubs in the West Midlands, not in recent years anyway, so that’s not been properly tested. They do get good support at the moment. Nonetheless they haven’t won a trophy this century, whereas other midlands clubs (Leicester, Birmingham) have.

Edit - it was stated recently (don’t have the link) that of Villa’s season ticket holders only a tiny percentage (~5%?) had a Birmingham postcode!

 

[crodonilson]

Aston historically was not part of Birmingham, hence why they were called Aston. They attract supporters from out of the city in a way that Blues do not. I wouldn’t take the word ‘always’ in there, they haven’t really been challenged by the other clubs in the West Midlands, not in recent years anyway, so that’s not been properly tested. They do get good support at the moment. Nonetheless they haven’t won a trophy this century, whereas other midlands clubs (Leicester, Birmingham) have.

Edit - it was stated recently (don’t have the link) that of Villa’s season ticket holders only a tiny percentage (~5%?) had a Birmingham postcode!

I guess that shows their incredible support across the wider midlands area and country, that is phenomenal, I bet even Man Utd have more % of STH supporters with a Manchester postcode.

I guess in terms of size it's:

Villa










Birmingham
Leicester
Forest
Derby
Wolverhampton
West Brom
Stoke
Coventry

 

[PeterT]

I maintain that Villa haven’t had real competition in the West Midlands at least for many years. When that looked possible in the early 2000s, Blues were actually filling the ground at 30,000 each week which was about the same as Villa were getting. So that gap is as wide as it’s been for a while but not guaranteed to remain.

When I first got into football in the early 70s, and my 2 grandfathers were both Villa supporters, Villa were of course in the 3rd division yet getting nearly 50,000 for some games. My first ever game there though was in 1983 against Liverpool on a Friday night and I doubt there were even 20,000 there that night (Ian Rush hat trick).

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Can I just check that I haven't missed something and you meant Archer or Bellotti not Dick Knight?

Sorry, yes, a senior moment I shall edit...

 

[crodonilson]

I maintain that Villa haven’t had real competition in the West Midlands at least for many years. When that looked possible in the early 2000s, Blues were actually filling the ground at 30,000 each week which was about the same as Villa were getting. So that gap is as wide as it’s been for a while but not guaranteed to remain.

When I first got into football in the early 70s, and my 2 grandfathers were both Villa supporters, Villa were of course in the 3rd division yet getting nearly 50,000 for some games. My first ever game there though was in 1983 against Liverpool on a Friday night and I doubt there were even 20,000 there that night (Ian Rush hat trick).

You can't see anyone really challenging them either, possibly Leicester resurgent when they get promoted or maybe Forest who have started to take to PL football. I only see them getting bigger and more dominant within the Midlands.

 

[PeterT]

You can't see anyone really challenging them either, possibly Leicester resurgent when they get promoted or maybe Forest who have started to take to PL football. I only see them getting bigger and more dominant within the Midlands.

Not sure about that. It’s a stretch at the moment to think it, especially as they are doing well this season, but when they went up in the playoffs they were not that far away from having major FFP issues and avoided them through promotion. First Randy Lerner and now the current owners appear to be scaling back spending, as have the Wolves owners who had ambitious plans but no more it seems - things happen and change, it’s never quite as simple as that.

If Birmingham get their new stadium, and they have started acquiring land nearby suggesting it’s not just a pipe dream, they could start to challenge Villa again. You can’t re-write history, and obviously Villa were great in the 1890s and when they won the European Cup, but they have been trophyless for nearly 30 years now. If one of Blues, Wolves or the Baggies got their act together, the regional dynamic would change i believe. Might not happen overnight though!

 

[peterward]

Terrible start for Rooney, the fans up there are splitting blood at the moment as most didn’t want him appointed in the first place. Sounds like he is trying to change the formation with players not good enough to do that.

Yep.

"Nice to hear your own fans booing ya"

 

[GT49er]

And as hard as nails.....

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