[Politics] Bin net zero, save 60 billion a year

[HeaviestTed]

The framing of net zero is all wrong - instead of saying it will cost x billion they should be focusing on us getting cheap energy from the sun and wind rather than being held ransom by opec.

The sun is effectively free and pretty consistent as long as the cost of the equipment and transportation is kept down then we should have very cheap energy.

Why we are controlled by how much opec want to charge and how much the futures market can squeeze out of us I’ll never know.

The idea that net zero is bad is actually pretty funny.

 

[Pevenseagull]

Is that from the tits up or from the arse down?

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

But they would get into power.

They would get some seats. And then they would be invited to join a right wing coalition. Farage would be a minister.

The reason why Israel has gone mad is because they have a self-serving right wing leader who has aligned himself with the multiple tiny very mad extreme right wing parties. And the latter are cracking the whip.

@Weststander is correct

Have you seen some of the recent cabinet ministers we've had?
We don't need weird other electoral systems to have our major parties and government taken over by nutcases.
And in the interests of balance, I'd say the same thing about some of the people who'd have been ministers under a Corbyn government if he'd won an election.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

View attachment 176235

I'm just stood here, mesmerised by that.
I might continue to stand here watching it for some time.

 

[sydney]

They’ve a significant following in midlands/north constituencies within the ‘working class’. People who want to “stop the boats”. R5 last week interviewed a load on the street in a northern town.

Pollsters/political scientists say their share of the vote will increase by at least 4% if Farage becomes the leader. He’s deemed “charismatic”.

Surprisingly they’re on a polls footing with the LidDems. Has Ed Davey come down firmly on EU re entry? I think his last comment was off the table because people don’t talk about it anymore. Shirley there’s a place for a mainstream out and out pro EU membership party, setting out a vision and highlighting what we’ve lost / what we’ll gain economically. I don’t count the Greens as they can only won one seat, probably

i'm in favour of binning net zero , what is the point of a tiny little island pursuing net zero when billions of people in Asia are forging on regardless and the usual suspects are busy trying to wipe each other off the face of the earth , it's a touching sentiment but completely futile in my opinion.

i was intrigued as to what people in the North and Nigel Farage had to do with net zero which is why i quoted you , i think Europeans are deluded as to what effect they can have on any climate change issues , the game is on in India , China and Indonesia , whatever happens in England is completely irrelevant.

as far as reforming UK all for it 100% but i reckon the job is done .

 

[Peteinblack]

Something has to pay for all the tax cuts they are promising.....

When Reform UK and many on the Right of the Conservative Party are asked how they will pay for their policy pledges, the response is invariably "By stopping immigration."

When you then ask them how much immigration is costing, they mutter: "Er, don't know the actual figure, but it's too much, whatever it is."

Apart from being anti-EU and anti-immigrant, what are Reform UK's policies - how would they tackle poverty wages, reliance on Food Banks, corporate greed and corruption, unaffordable housing, crumbling public services, large-scale tax evasion, etc.

It seems to me that their stance and policies are even further to the Right of the Conservatives - so they simply offer more of what we've had imposed on us for the last 40 years, which will simply exacerbate the problems and divisions that Britain is currently experiencing.

I find it so predicable, but still depressing, that so many of the Red Wall working-class seem to be the likely supporters of Reform UK, simply because they blame immigrants for the country's problems, and think Farage is a 'cheeky chappy man of the people'. People like Farage - and Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees-Mogg, etc - are wealthy, public-school-educated, rabble-rousers who skilfully exploit the grievances of the working-class, but do not really, genuinely, care about them, but know that criticising immigration is enough to earn them cap-doffing respect or hero-status.

In any industrial dispute between workers and their bosses, over wage cuts or job losses, whose side would Farage and Reform UK be on; my guess is that they would side with the employers every time.

 

[Pevenseagull]

I'm just stood here, mesmerised by that.
I might continue to stand here watching it for some time.

I was expecting to find a gif of a huge hooked 6 but saw that searching for 'superb cricket shot' and thought ... Yep. That's the one.

 

[peterward]

5-10% would never get you into power under PR either. They'd have about as much influence as the Lib Dems have ever had in parliament.

In fact, FPTP suits them down to the ground as they can continue to make extravagant policy promises in general elections knowing that they won't ever have to represent their voters in parliament and be held accountable. UKIP/Brexit/Reform have probably had far more influence on goverment policy since 2015 due to their ability to split the tory vote than they ever would have with 40-50 MPs in Westminster.

The various iterations of Farage parties + Lib Dems had far more relevancy when we had European elections in which they both drew the hardcore remainers/leavers.

I'd suggest now both influence had waned, their only real ability is to split main party votes, knowing they will never win an election or hold any meaningful power (Lib dems in coalition, maybe as good as they'll ever get)

 

[pb21]

Gordon Brown called out a long standing Party member as being racist

No he didn't. Like everything you say, that's slightly but crucially incorrect.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

I was expecting to find a gif of a huge hooked 6 but saw that searching for 'superb cricket shot' and thought ... Yep. That's the one.

You might enjoy this.


Only slightly spoiled by the last minute inclusion of a shot by Steve Smith, who clearly has no place in any compilation of dreamy cover drives.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Have you seen some of the recent cabinet ministers we've had?
We don't need weird other electoral systems to have our major parties and government taken over by nutcases.
And in the interests of balance, I'd say the same thing about some of the people who'd have been ministers under a Corbyn government if he'd won an election.

Whatabout the present electoral system, you say?

I take your point but we do end up with mainstream parties in charge and the swing of the pendulum always drags us back to the centre. And, let us not forget, the present electoral system kept Corbyn out. Out, out, out. And gone.

If we open the PR door to Farage, Charlie Kimber, David Icke and the like, the options would be things would get better, they would stay the same, or they would get worse.

It's worse, isn't it.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Whatabout the present electoral system, you say?

I take your point but we do end up with mainstream parties in charge and the swing of the pendulum always drags us back to the centre. And, let us not forget, the present electoral system kept Corbyn out. Out, out, out. And gone.

If we open the PR door to Farage, Charlie Kimber, David Icke and the like, the options would be things would get better, they would stay the same, or they would get worse.

It's worse, isn't it.

I think it's a fair criticism of the current system that, in the event of a party getting taken over by a load of twats, they effectively have free reign to do whatever they want because the party machinery means they're all compelled to vote together.

Whereas if they're overtly in a coalition the lunatic right party is likely to be balanced out by a relatively sensible centre party on the other side.

Comparisons with Israel are nebulous given it's a very different country in very different circumstances. I don't want to get distracted down that rabbit hole but I'm confident you understand what I mean. We can point to any number of countries as examples of a particular system working better or worse. Ultimately any polical system has to incorporate checks and balances but also at some point relies on the goodwill and integrity of the people working within it.

I'd add that I'd much prefer political debates to be done publicly between different coalition partners rather than having to watch news reports consisting of a journalist stood outside the Palace of Westminster waiting for the results of a meeting of the Buckingham 1922 Committee to ooze out of those [the rest of this post has been redacted for excessively graphic language].

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

Well net zero could provide more jobs, improve public health and reduce their travel and heating costs

Doesn’t matter if people can’t see that benefit now. They live month to month.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I think it's a fair criticism of the current system that, in the event of a party getting taken over by a load of twats, they effectively have free reign to do whatever they want because the party machinery means they're all compelled to vote together.

Whereas if they're overtly in a coalition the lunatic right party is likely to be balanced out by a relatively sensible centre party on the other side.

Comparisons with Israel are nebulous given it's a very different country in very different circumstances. I don't want to get distracted down that rabbit hole but I'm confident you understand what I mean. We can point to any number of countries as examples of a particular system working better or worse. Ultimately any polical system has to incorporate checks and balances but also at some point relies on the goodwill and integrity of the people working within it.

I'd add that I'd much prefer political debates to be done publicly between different coalition partners rather than having to watch news reports consisting of a journalist stood outside the Palace of Westminster waiting for the results of a meeting of the Buckingham 1922 Committee to ooze out of those [the rest of this post has been redacted for excessively graphic language].

I agree. I'd be happy with grown up politics and coalitions.

Now, let's take a look at the electorate.

 

[keaton]

Doesn’t matter if people can’t see that benefit now. They live month to month.

But only things like net zero get framed like that. You don't say "people are living month to month, why are we building new roads?"

Cheaper energy, more efficient houses and cheaper and better public transport will save them money

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The framing of net zero is all wrong - instead of saying it will cost x billion they should be focusing on us getting cheap energy from the sun and wind rather than being held ransom by opec.

The sun is effectively free and pretty consistent as long as the cost of the equipment and transportation is kept down then we should have very cheap energy.

Why we are controlled by how much opec want to charge and how much the futures market can squeeze out of us I’ll never know.

The idea that net zero is bad is actually pretty funny.

I take it you won't be voting for the right wing nut jobs, then.

(Me neither )

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

I agree. I'd be happy with grown up politics and coalitions.

Now, let's take a look at the electorate.

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All salt of the earth Labour voters I'm sure.

 

[HeaviestTed]

I take it you won't be voting for the right wing nut jobs, then.

(Me neither )

No I definitely won’t!

 

[Randy McNob]

My local Lib Dem guy is great and I'll vote for him. Apart from his excellent communication I hear very little nationally from Lib Dems.

There's a reason for that, anyone with sensible policies who act in the real interests of the country rarely get a platform whereas right wing extremists like Tice and Farage are on your screens and radio 24/7 such is the bent media in this country.

Anyone can easily see what a political party or politician stands for by looking online but the right wing media machine doesn't want people to be informed, they rely on people's apathy and ignorance and feed their minds with 3 word slogans like stop the boats and plant the seeds of doubt about other parties on the left and the perception that they don't stand for anything

 

[raymondo]

There's a reason for that, anyone with sensible policies who act in the real interests of the country rarely get a platform whereas right wing extremists like Tice and Farage are on your screens and radio 24/7 such is the bent media in this country.

Anyone can easily see what a political party or politician stands for by looking online but the right wing media machine doesn't want people to be informed, they rely on people's apathy and ignorance and feed their minds with 3 word slogans like stop the boats and plant the seeds of doubt about other parties on the left and the perception that they don't stand for anything

Good point, well made