[Politics] Bin net zero, save 60 billion a year

[Goldstone Guy]

He comes across as just another cocky politician, full of himself, the Post Office scandal revealed an illiberal uncaring tw@t.

There’s must be a gap for a pro EU party. I read some investment data recently, ours has fallen off a cliff compared to Italy, Germany and France in the last 4 years. That impacts real lives and finances eventually. Other than J’OB and the Guardian, why isn’t this aired?

Green party.

 

[nicko31]

Nigel Farage’s Reform Party Took £135,000 from Climate Science Deniers and Fossil Fuel Interests

Nigel Farage’s Reform party received £135,000 this year from donors linked to climate science denial and fossil fuels, DeSmog can reveal. Reform UK, formerly the Brexit Party, is a vocal critic of climate action, and last year called for a referendum on the UK’s net zero policies. The party has...

www.desmog.com

 

[Hugo Rune]

A failure by elected politicians, the civil service and other organs of the establishment to deal with “immigration” cannot be the fault of the Brexit voting electorate.

Nothing has been delivered on immigration because neither party intend it too.

Of course it can if those who voted Brexit voted that way to primarily reduce “immigration”. Of course, millions of others voted Brexit for different reasons.

Voting for a concept so nebulous, undefined and complex such as Brexit against the established norms and status quo of being in the EU was always going to be a gamble, especially as the figureheads of the leave campaign were the likes of Johnson and Farage who are at best, untrustworthy.

If you just voted Brexit to ensure that we took back control of our laws (and to hell with every other consequence) then you won. Hands down. Enjoy the ride.

However, if you voted Brexit solely on the basis of the ideology this poster represents:

Then you are a cretin of the highest order for being gaslit by wealthy Billionaire Brexiteers into believing that they and the establishment care about reducing immigration. Who is going to clean their houses? Who is going to pick their fruit?

Well it turns out that Farage is pointing at the hundreds of thousands of non-European migrant workers who have been let in now. The big difference is that they stay permanently (unlike European workers such as the Polish who are all headed home because we kicked them out but also, their country’s economy is now growing faster and stronger than ours) and that net migration is 3 times more than it was pre-Brexit. It couldn’t have gone any worse for those that voted Brexit to curb immigration could it. They can 100% take the blame in my book.

 

[WATFORD zero]

A failure by elected politicians, the civil service and other organs of the establishment to deal with “immigration” cannot be the fault of the Brexit voting electorate.

It’s a measure of the determination of all the above on “net zero” matters that some political shit can get “done” in this country when they consider it important. The Tories are toast because of this very issue, and it’s not the first time they hold their voters (solid or lite Tories) in contempt.

The fact they bought in David Cameron to be foreign minister, whilst another dyed in the wool remainer sits on the throne treasury are perfect examples of that contempt and it’s just that they suffer for it.

But Labour will offer nothing different in that key political area either they disenfranchised their working class voters when Gordon Brown called out a long standing Party member as being racist for confronting him with a question on immigration.

Nothing has been delivered on immigration because neither party intend it too.

After all your campaigning for Boris and Nige's Leave campaign as being 'great for the working classes', Brexit was a failure because it wasn't done right ?

 

[Binney on acid]

It’s too early to say that Brexit was a failure. Wait another 50 or 60 years, and a benefit might become apparent. Then again, it might not.

 

[London Irish]

It’s too early to say that Brexit was a failure. Wait another 50 or 60 years, and a benefit might become apparent. Then again, it might not.

Brexit was never about Europe, it was designed to ensure a section of working class people would vote for rightwing politics against their own interests, driving British politics to the right for a generation. So it worked

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Promise just made to Stephen Nolan on radio 5 by a Reform party spokesman.

Quite a claim.

Does one think this will split the tory vote*?

Nolan suggested that this sounds like a shake of the magic money tree.

However, unlike Labour, at least Reform have costed their promises.




*oddly......it may.

And then burn in the summer and drown in the floods as the climate changes.

The Reform Party are dangerous, short sighted fools.

 

[raymondo]

I have heard naff all about the Lib Dems for ages and have no idea what they stand for at the moment. I'm sure Ed Davey said that rejoining was not on their list anymore but it should be - people might pay some attention to them then.

My local Lib Dem guy is great and I'll vote for him. Apart from his excellent communication I hear very little nationally from Lib Dems.

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

Policy isn’t a surpsie, and will be popular with many ‘blue collar’ / CDE voters.

Net Zero is an admirable aim, but a lot of voters live month to month. What good is net zero is they can’t feed their families and lose their jobs?

Thousands of jobs to be cut at Britain’s biggest steelworks under net zero plans

Britain’s largest steelworks will axe more than 3,000 jobs as it presses ahead with net zero plans to close its blast furnaces.

finance.yahoo.com

 

[raymondo]

Promise just made to Stephen Nolan on radio 5 by a Reform party spokesman.

Quite a claim.

Does one think this will split the tory vote*?

Nolan suggested that this sounds like a shake of the magic money tree.

However, unlike Labour, at least Reform have costed their promises.




*oddly......it may.

And what did he promise they'd do with said 60 billion....increase pay for nurses?, give them free parking and subsidised canteens (levelling up with parliament), junior doctors pay? sort out NHS dentistry? increase support services for disabled, disadvantaged?
As someone has said already...the needs wouldn't all fit on the side of a bus.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

What did happen to the extra NHS cash from brexit?

Presumably they spent it on reducing waiting lists.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

And what did he promise they'd do with said 60 billion....increase pay for nurses?, give them free parking and subsidised canteens (levelling up with parliament), junior doctors pay? sort out NHS dentistry? increase support services for disabled, disadvantaged?
As someone has said already...the needs wouldn't all fit on the side of a bus.

Something about our borders, I seem to recall.....

 

[Dave the OAP]

What did happen to the extra NHS cash from brexit?

Presumably they spent it on reducing waiting lists.

According to the Tory mouthpiece on QT at his week, they are putting £350 million a week into the NHS.

so there you are

happy days

 

[peterward]

They’ve a significant following in midlands/north constituencies within the ‘working class’. People who want to “stop the boats”. R5 last week interviewed a load on the street in a northern town.

Pollsters/political scientists say their share of the vote will increase by at least 4% if Farage becomes the leader. He’s deemed “charismatic”.

Surprisingly they’re on a polls footing with the LidDems. Has Ed Davey come down firmly on EU re entry? I think his last comment was off the table because people don’t talk about it anymore. Shirley there’s a place for a mainstream out and out pro EU membership party, setting out a vision and highlighting what we’ve lost / what we’ll gain economically. I don’t count the Greens as they can only won one seat, probably.

Agree with your points, but think on EU that approach is wrong, was always wrong and is most certainly self limiting.

I actually find the lib dems balance of fiscal conservatism and social liberalism/justice attractive and whilst much maligned and chucked under a bus by the Tories, they did better in coalition, in difficult circumstances than many credit them for.

Obviously they've been the most rabidly pro European party, and whilst they may have hived off a lot of dyed in the wool European federalist remainers, they've effectively closed themselves off to half of the electorate.

And domestic politics and policy also matters. If you have the best manifesto domestically, you've still closed yourself from about 40-50% of electorate.

I'm not trying to rerun old arguments that have been done to death on here, but I do think that both Tories and Labour who allow a more open, ad lib policy on that one issue make themselves more saleable to both sides of that divide and the whole national voting public.

Both Lib Dems and Brexit/Reform don't and will never make any serious inroads nationally if they can't appeal to the whole electorate.

 

[keaton]

Policy isn’t a surpsie, and will be popular with many ‘blue collar’ / CDE voters.

Net Zero is an admirable aim, but a lot of voters live month to month. What good is net zero is they can’t feed their families and lose their jobs?

Thousands of jobs to be cut at Britain’s biggest steelworks under net zero plans

Britain’s largest steelworks will axe more than 3,000 jobs as it presses ahead with net zero plans to close its blast furnaces.

finance.yahoo.com

Well net zero could provide more jobs, improve public health and reduce their travel and heating costs

 

[Comrade Sam]

Can we bin oxygen and an end to contemporary sea levels as well - will that bring net zero savings? As the world gets more f***ed and most people get poorer, should we be surprised that those to blame are immigrants, refugees, trans people, Woke opinions and those that see peril in the state of the environment. These fuckers spreading ignorance as common sense and working class values are pushing a world for billionaires at the expense of the living standards of working class people, which includes immigrants, refugees, trans people and those that pay bills, breath oxygen and hope not to drown or starve. Smoke and mirrors.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It’s too early to say that Brexit was a failure. Wait another 50 or 60 years, and a benefit might become apparent. Then again, it might not.

The problem is that with one universe, existent in linear time, one cannot control for any experiment, and we have to judge cause and effect based on reasoning and consideration of likelihoods. For example, what is the liklihood that not beating the Germans in WWII would have resulted in Bad Things for England? Some (like the younger Farage) argue that it would have been better had Germany won. Personally I feel any discussion about that should be brief.

As @Hugo Rune points out above, there were very specific promises about what Brexit would do for us (different promises by different proponents, true, buts specific and tangible nevertheless). And what has happened? The opposite!

It may be possible to blame the recession on Covid (possible, but incorrect). But what about the massive increase in non EU migration?

Unless 'taking back control' is merely some sort of existential posture, Brexit has delivered nothing, and made most things worse.

The only way it may look like a good move in 50 years is if the EU becomes an evil empire that eats itself, and everyone dies due to a mad EU diktat that went wrong (such as compulsory vaccination with a rogue microchip) and England dodges this bullet via its splendid isolation. Possible? Yes. Likely? Hmmmm....

 

[raymondo]

Something about our borders, I seem to recall.....

Aah yes...silly me

 

[nwgull]

One of the benefits of FPTP, their 5% will never translate into power.

5-10% would never get you into power under PR either. They'd have about as much influence as the Lib Dems have ever had in parliament.

In fact, FPTP suits them down to the ground as they can continue to make extravagant policy promises in general elections knowing that they won't ever have to represent their voters in parliament and be held accountable. UKIP/Brexit/Reform have probably had far more influence on goverment policy since 2015 due to their ability to split the tory vote than they ever would have with 40-50 MPs in Westminster.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

5-10% would never get you into power under PR either. They'd have about as much influence as the Lib Dems have ever had in parliament.

In fact, FPTP suits them down to the ground as they can continue to make extravagant policy promises in general elections knowing that they won't ever have to represent their voters in parliament and be held accountable. UKIP/Brexit/Reform have probably had far more influence on goverment policy since 2015 due to their ability to split the tory vote than they ever would have with 40-50 MPs in Westminster.

But they would get into power.

They would get some seats. And then they would be invited to join a right wing coalition. Farage would be a minister.

The reason why Israel has gone mad is because they have a self-serving right wing leader who has aligned himself with the multiple tiny very mad extreme right wing parties. And the latter are cracking the whip.

@Weststander is correct