big Sam gone

[maltaseagull]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. I have no desire for Blatter and Platini to ever be near football again - rather stupid for anyone to even think I might do. I was very happy when Allardyce was appointed (not being one of the idiots who bleat 'hoofball' whenever his name is mentioned) and would love it if he was still England manager - though of course I realise that in the circumstances he had to go. But if you think we should be jumping for joy at the appointment of Southgate, you've got a funny idea of football.

I don't and I haven't.

 

[Murray 17]

In this individual case, they haven't 'exposed' any corruption. In fact, over several hours of trying, they couldn't trip Big Sam up on the one thing which would have been dynamite - he actually admonished them for even suggesting illegal payments. So instead they blew up a story about him expressing derogatory views of his employers and predecessor

I'm with you on this. I think the tipping point was when he allegedly criticised these people.

 

[junior]

And as a proclaimed member of "team Big Sam" I'm as pissed off as everyone. I thought he was a bridge between the old and the new. I'm mostly pissed off with the authorities who haven't developed a culture where if approached in such a way, he would have just walked away.

My industry (just as many others) used to have a culture of it too. I'm talking about a wink and a nod and not paying the taxman. I'm talking about greed.

Ok, I've seen others getting paid stacks and I'm gonna get a piece too.

The MPs have been seen to be similar and there are parallels. Same with the entertainment industry. People in positions of seniority, supposedly in charge of others who are getting paid wildly higher figures. Call them them the "talent" whatever.

It's toxic.

You mean 'Tories'?

 

[drew]

Well, the Telegraph certainly seem to have done a good job of convincing people they exposed something vital here. As expected, lots of fans jumping to conclusions by bundling together this with previous unproven historic allegations - which the FA must have been satisfied were no longer of concern before giving him the job. In this individual case, they haven't 'exposed' any corruption. In fact, over several hours of trying, they couldn't trip Big Sam up on the one thing which would have been dynamite - he actually admonished them for even suggesting illegal payments. So instead they blew up a story about him expressing derogatory views of his employers and predecessors in a private conversation and explaining how easy it is to find alternatives to 'shared ownership' without breaching the rules. Unwise in his new position, yes, but not corrupt.

Predictably then most of the complaints are about the money and that he supposedly could have made a lot extra by exploiting his status. Well, that puts him in the same category as about 99% of public figures. He told them he wouldn't be able to do it without talking to the FA first, so if this fictitious £400k had been real, chances are it wouldn't have happened anyway. Who's to say that on reflection, and after talking to the FA, he wouldn't have just knocked it on the head as a bad idea? In a meeting where someone is offering money for old rope, anyone is likely to make positive noises - there's plenty of time to backtrack later after some time to consider things.

Equating this to actual corruption - paying for votes etc - is just plain wrong but precisely the effect the newspaper knew the story would have with fans in general, many of whom will only have read the 'juicy' bits.

Stupid, yes. Greedy, so it appears. But if you had an agent saying to you that some guys from the Far East have been on the phone saying they'll pay you £100k a time just to make a speech and shake a few hands, I expect you'd consider it.. Most people would certainly go along to hear their proposal and even say a bit of what they wanted to hear, knowing none of it was a done deal and you could back out later when you'd had a chance to think about it. Unless someone was stitching you up, of course....

Are you big Sam's son?

 

[El Presidente]

My industry (just as many others) used to have a culture of it too. I'm talking about a wink and a nod and not paying the taxman. I'm talking about greed.

Did you use to run a brothel?

 

[trueblue]

Are you big Sam's son?

Absolutely not. Because morally I agree it would be good to have an England manager who's solely focussed on the job of winning the World Cup and so wholesome they can be seen as a shining example.

Merely pointing out that it is not 'corrupt' for someone to discuss getting paid for some extra work, which may or may not happen. If some idiot wants to pay ridiculous amounts for their services, that's their own choice...

And if we all had to resign any time we criticised our employers - or the rules they make - in the course of a private conversation, hardly anyone would have a job!

 

[mikeyjh]

Absolutely not. Because morally I agree it would be good to have an England manager who's solely focussed on the job of winning the World Cup and so wholesome they can be seen as a shining example.

Merely pointing out that it is not 'corrupt' for someone to discuss getting paid for some extra work, which may or may not happen. If some idiot wants to pay ridiculous amounts for their services, that's their own choice...

And if we all had to resign any time we criticised our employers - or the rules they make - in the course of a private conversation, hardly anyone would have a job!

I'm not a fan of the pitchfork waving approach to this but neither can you ignore what's happened. Nobody will worry too much about a junior employee criticising an employer but you'll rarely catch senior leaders doing so outside of very trusted company so in that respect Sam was stupid rather than corrupt. Offering to help a third party bypass the rules & regulations of that employer though, that's corrupt. I wanted Sam to succeed and wanted this to blow over but really there was no other outcome.

 

[trueblue]

I'm not a fan of the pitchfork waving approach to this but neither can you ignore what's happened. Nobody will worry too much about a junior employee criticising an employer but you'll rarely catch senior leaders doing so outside of very trusted company so in that respect Sam was stupid rather than corrupt. Offering to help a third party bypass the rules & regulations of that employer though, that's corrupt. I wanted Sam to succeed and wanted this to blow over but really there was no other outcome.

Apparently, as I've since read, they were 'trusted' in the sense that they'd taken some considerable time nurturing this contact so he thought he was among friends.

I didn't see anything in there that suggested he offered to bypass the rules - he just said it was very easy to do, as any number of managers and agents would no doubt also agree. If he was going to make that suggestion as part of his 'speeches' then that's a different matter but, as he'd said, none of that would happen until it had been sanctioned by the FA anyway. Nothing corrupt.

He's certainly been an idiot however you carve it up and his comments weren't appropriate for an England manager. It will be interesting to see if there was a real 'smoking gun' in the forthcoming revelations though which forced the FA's hand as otherwise the Telegraph have only really exposed someone for 'being a bit of a dick'.

 

[nicko31]

His departure can only be a good thing in the long term interests of the English game. Sam clearly thought he was invincible and could do what he liked, he dodged a bullet a while back but clearly learnt nothing.

In a funny kind of way I feel sorry for him for having poor judgement, and he will need to live with that forever. So an excellent manager now leaves the game with a terrible legacy.

 

[AmexRuislip]

Big Sam caught out by his invention of sport science video analysis

 

[Lenny Rider]

Big Sam says entrapment has won the day on this occasion.

I don't think he's that far wrong, perhaps he can go on a lecture tour with John Leslie another person who had his career destroyed by the tabloid press?

 

[Buzzer]

[tweet]781048309934764032[/tweet]

 

[Danny-Boy]

I'm not a fan of the pitchfork waving approach to this but neither can you ignore what's happened. Nobody will worry too much about a junior employee criticising an employer but you'll rarely catch senior leaders doing so outside of very trusted company so in that respect Sam was stupid rather than corrupt. Offering to help a third party bypass the rules & regulations of that employer though, that's corrupt. I wanted Sam to succeed and wanted this to blow over but really there was no other outcome.

This.

For Sam to criticise his fellow managers like Woy and Neville was not diplomatic. And the England manager has to be a diplomat. Remember Alf Ramsey over Bobby Moore in Mexico 1970? What would Sam have done...

 

[Danny-Boy]

Is 67 days long enough to be asked a 'reign'. I mean, its hardly Elizabeth II proportions. He'll be remembered more as a blip, a 67 day blip. Yes that's more appropriate

Lady Jane Grey managed only 3 I think...but she isn't counted a monarch. In her case it was a "chop".

 

[Frutos]

Lady Jane Grey managed only 3 I think...but she isn't counted a monarch. In her case it was a "chop".

9 days.

 

[trueblue]

This.

For Sam to criticise his fellow managers like Woy and Neville was not diplomatic. And the England manager has to be a diplomat. Remember Alf Ramsey over Bobby Moore in Mexico 1970? What would Sam have done...

Does the England manager have to be a diplomat? As long as he does nothing illegal, I couldn't care less who he upsets if we had one that could win the World Cup. Puncturing the egos of a few FA bigwigs and players doesn't bother me at all - and let's face it, the players actually know the criticism was more than fair.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

The fixtures are VERY favourable to England. Let Southgate manage all the way to the end of the season and then have someone in place.

It feels like it's BLINDINGLY obvious that Arsene Wenger will take the job. He has said he would be interested. He has said he doesn't know if he will have a new Arsenal deal after this season. He's reached 20 years. He's experienced. The FA will LOVE him and Gareth Southgate will have had 8 months of brilliant experience.