BHAFC Fans given banning order....................

[bhanutz]

My opinion was not sought over the decision to apply for the ban.

I understand it puts you in a difficult position...But a 5 year ban?? Really?

 

[bn1&bn3 Albion]

I was asking a question. If I could afford to go abroad for an England game, I'd avoid the obvious public places advertising 'English fans' here.
Or, is the attitude, we're here to enjoy ourselves & nobody is going to stop us? An act of bravado?

Genuine question.

If you need to ask the question you'll never understand..

We done the same all tournament and only had problems in Marseille.. People chose to drink in that square as it was the quieter option than the port, which had been attacked previously.

 

[Return of the Rev]

Gents ( and ladies who are reading this)

I am answering the thread as I was made aware of it. As most of you know I do read and comment on NSC so conspiracy theories out of the window, that's what I do. I have also had a ask the police forum on this board for many years for persons to ask anything they wish about policing. They may not like or agree with the answer but part of my role is to be contactable. Hence my twitter account and email address.

The incidents which happened in Marseille over the period of the three days were not good and some English fans were targeted by a clearly defined Russian group. This is a fact. Our role over in Marseille and at the rest of the tournament was to engage with supporters and to try and advise French police regarding English supporters. This was in a liaison capacity. This worked well at times with some of the host venues.

The incident regarding the people spoken about on this thread was separate from the main pictures seen in the papers. It was filmed by British police and sent back to London for a decision to be made whether a ban would be sought. That decision was taken and it was assessed by a magistrate.

I will not go into the actual events at this time as they have the right to appeal currently. Any suggestion that this was targeted is incorrect. The suggestion we have received £3500 per ban is also incorrect. This type of ban has been sought by me once in the time they have been available and since I have been liaison (16years). The decision to apply for one on this occasion was made by London.

I am sure some people will not believe this, everyone is entitled to their opinion and it is not my want to see Brighton fans banned. I have a role with supporters and the club as their and your liaison. Sometimes through difficult times but mainly a pleasure.

Your job should be easier now,can't see too many supporters wanting to liaise with you after this episode

 

[bn1&bn3 Albion]

Gents ( and ladies who are reading this)

I am answering the thread as I was made aware of it. As most of you know I do read and comment on NSC so conspiracy theories out of the window, that's what I do. I have also had a ask the police forum on this board for many years for persons to ask anything they wish about policing. They may not like or agree with the answer but part of my role is to be contactable. Hence my twitter account and email address.

The incidents which happened in Marseille over the period of the three days were not good and some English fans were targeted by a clearly defined Russian group. This is a fact. Our role over in Marseille and at the rest of the tournament was to engage with supporters and to try and advise French police regarding English supporters. This was in a liaison capacity. This worked well at times with some of the host venues.

The incident regarding the people spoken about on this thread was separate from the main pictures seen in the papers. It was filmed by British police and sent back to London for a decision to be made whether a ban would be sought. That decision was taken and it was assessed by a magistrate.

I will not go into the actual events at this time as they have the right to appeal currently. Any suggestion that this was targeted is incorrect. The suggestion we have received £3500 per ban is also incorrect. This type of ban has been sought by me once in the time they have been available and since I have been liaison (16years). The decision to apply for one on this occasion was made by London.

I am sure some people will not believe this, everyone is entitled to their opinion and it is not my want to see Brighton fans banned. I have a role with supporters and the club as their and your liaison. Sometimes through difficult times but mainly a pleasure.

With input from Sussex Police... I've read some of the paperwork and it was clear that a statement had been made by someone at Sussex Police. The wording in that statement made it clear to me that Sussex Police wanted bans.

 

[PC BHA]

It is correct that Sussex Police provided a statement. As I said before the decision to apply for the ban was made by London and the decision to ban was made by the magistrate.

 

[bhanutz]

It is correct that Sussex Police provided a statement. As I said before the decision to apply for the ban was made by London and the decision to ban was made by the magistrate.

But your statement would have influenced the decision to ban these guys!

 

[el punal]

Just been doing some research on t'internet about Football Banning Orders and how to appeal against them. Some quite interesting bits of information but too long to describe on here. My suggestion is just to Google it and it will come up with a whole plethora of info.

With regard to appealing an FBO it seems that the ball park cost would be around £500. I'm not sure that you would be able reclaim that amount back if you were successful. If there was damning proof of misdemeanour (i.e. video evidence) I would imagine any chance of success would be nil. Still, if you feel that the accusation and "conviction" is unjustified, something like being in the wrong place at the wrong time, perhaps it's worth a shout in appealing despite you being out of pocket.

 

[Westdene Wonder]

Sounds very reasonable

 

[westsussexseagulls]

They have the right to appeal you say but Sussex police were quick enough to release their pictures all over the Internet and press, I am sure if decisions are overturned we will not see the same level of coverage ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[The Kid Frankie]

Gents ( and ladies who are reading this)

I am answering the thread as I was made aware of it. As most of you know I do read and comment on NSC so conspiracy theories out of the window, that's what I do. I have also had a ask the police forum on this board for many years for persons to ask anything they wish about policing. They may not like or agree with the answer but part of my role is to be contactable. Hence my twitter account and email address.

The incidents which happened in Marseille over the period of the three days were not good and some English fans were targeted by a clearly defined Russian group. This is a fact. Our role over in Marseille and at the rest of the tournament was to engage with supporters and to try and advise French police regarding English supporters. This was in a liaison capacity. This worked well at times with some of the host venues.

The incident regarding the people spoken about on this thread was separate from the main pictures seen in the papers. It was filmed by British police and sent back to London for a decision to be made whether a ban would be sought. That decision was taken and it was assessed by a magistrate.

I will not go into the actual events at this time as they have the right to appeal currently. Any suggestion that this was targeted is incorrect. The suggestion we have received £3500 per ban is also incorrect. This type of ban has been sought by me once in the time they have been available and since I have been liaison (16years). The decision to apply for one on this occasion was made by London.

I am sure some people will not believe this, everyone is entitled to their opinion and it is not my want to see Brighton fans banned. I have a role with supporters and the club as their and your liaison. Sometimes through difficult times but mainly a pleasure.

Your role with Sussex Police and the Marseille events aside. What is your honest option from a human perspective with regards the civil football banning order? Is it fair or just to be able to put these restrictions on someone's life without having convicted them properly? I understand that it is supposed to act as a preventative measure to stop potential future disorder - but it is clearly punitive. Is that really acceptable without conclusive proof that the individual has beyond reasonable doubt taken part in disorder?

 

[Dave the OAP]

Your role with Sussex Police and the Marseille events aside. What is your honest option from a human perspective with regards the civil football banning order? Is it fair or just to be able to put these restrictions on someone's life without having convicted them properly? I understand that it is supposed to act as a preventative measure to stop potential future disorder - but it is clearly punitive. Is that really acceptable without conclusive proof that the individual has beyond reasonable doubt taken part in disorder?

Didn't he say above that these chaps were away from the main trouble and there was police filming going on, which presumably must have shown their " guilt" maybe that is the conclusive proof.

However I do agree that a banning order seems extreme if it is to be used as a message to other naughty boys and girls.

 

[The Kid Frankie]

Didn't he say above that these chaps were away from the main trouble and there was police filming going on, which presumably must have shown their " guilt" maybe that is the conclusive proof.

However I do agree that a banning order seems extreme if it is to be used as a message to other naughty boys and girls.

If that were the case then surely there would have been grounds for the French police to make an arrest? It didn't stop them in other cases.

Like I said, moving away from the incident in question, I'm interested to get PC BHA's personal opinion of the civil banning order process if he is willing to share it.

 

[PC BHA]

I am not commenting on why or if the French police could have arrested at this stage. I maybe able to at a later stage.

Regarding personal opinion, I am presuming you would expect me not to answer. I don't make the legislation and how it is interpreted. However in the case of civil banning orders I understand the concerns people have. I will re iterate that we in Surrey and Sussex have only issued 1 of these in 16 years. Some other forces have issued many more. It is not a route I prefer but that is not to say, where appropriate, they could be applied for.

 

[Return of the Rev]

I am not commenting on why or if the French police could have arrested at this stage. I maybe able to at a later stage.

Regarding personal opinion, I am presuming you would expect me not to answer. I don't make the legislation and how it is interpreted. However in the case of civil banning orders I understand the concerns people have. I will re iterate that we in Surrey and Sussex have only issued 1 of these in 16 years. Some other forces have issued many more. It is not a route I prefer but that is not to say, where appropriate, they could be applied for.

I think people would not mind 100 appropriate banning orders applied for its just the England fans were under incredible dangers at points in Marseilles. The police response was to stand back and do nothing but then at a later date punish those who were forced to stand up for themselves.

 

[PC BHA]

I disagree with parts of that. There is still an enquiry continuing over here as to the events that happened in Marseille and that, before you ask, is not just focussed on UK Citizens.

 

[Springal]

I disagree with parts of that. There is still an enquiry continuing over here as to the events that happened in Marseille and that, before you ask, is not just focussed on UK Citizens.

Hopefully been noted that the only French riot police in the square the Saturday afternoon, helmeted up and went down into the port about 5mins before the Russians came into the square....

 

[Return of the Rev]

I disagree with parts of that. There is still an enquiry continuing over here as to the events that happened in Marseille and that, before you ask, is not just focussed on UK Citizens.

I'm sure an inquiry will be a great comfort to the guys beaten to an inch of their life,poor policing from all sides.

 

[Buzzer]

I disagree with parts of that. There is still an enquiry continuing over here as to the events that happened in Marseille and that, before you ask, is not just focussed on UK Citizens.

Can I ask, do you think that 5 year banning orders for a first-time offence is a proportionate and fair response? And especially given that it was all done on the basis of video evidence which can often not show the full context and story.

On the few occasions I've been past West Street on a weekend night, I've seen fights broken up by police and people dispersed with a reading of the riot act and a warning about doing it again that are often worse than some of the scuffles that have landed football fans in prison. There's many ordinary fans, myself included, who look at these sentences and we're shocked and disappointed at the way we are all treated and I think this sentencing structure is symptomatic of that.

3 and 5 year banning orders for first time offences and solely on video evidence without a trial? And bearing in mind that English fans had sustained brutal attacks by Russian hooligans that had put a few of our fans in a coma so tempers were very fraught - sorry, but that isn't justice.

 

[CC2]

And if the enquiry is still ongoing how can the banning orders be given, surely they should be dependent on the final outcome of the full enquiry.

 

[PC BHA]

Buzzer

The bans were handed out by the court based on the video evidence presented. That is the legislation, whether its correct or not is not for me to decide. you have hit the nail on the head regarding the sentencing structure.

There are many times at matches over the years that we have done the same you mention in your second paragraph. I would hope you would agree the style of policing in the city and at the Amex reflects this.

I will say again. This is only the second time this legislation has been used since it was brought onto the statute book in respect of people connected to Brighton. I wouldn't associate with, however some of the other scenes that happened in Marseille. This incident took place before that.