BHAFC Fans given banning order....................

[BRIGHT ON Q]

Sticking up for your fans when others are quick to condemn them without knowing all the facts. Not to mention they are also England fans.

Let me ask you something. How do you manage to pop up and respond every time I post, do you have nothing better to do than go around telling people where they should and should not post.

Because that's what boring tedious people like her do, I shouldn't worry about it.

 

[soistes]

I don't know anything about these five blokes, or about the precise circumstances they found themselves in, and I wasn't there, so I have no real evidence base for deciding whether this was a miscarriage of justice, or whether they were bang to rights. On the one hand, I'd hope that the evidence collected by French or British police/authorities was fairly considered by the magistrates and by BHA. On the other hand, all that I've read and seen about that night in Marseille suggests it was pretty chaotic, the Russian fans were the main aggressors and targeting English fans, so it could well be that a bunch of young, slightly pissed Albion fans got caught up in something inadvertently and have been hard done by. If the latter, I hope they appeal and get the right result.
Given that, it seems appropriate not to rush to judgement on NSC, and certainly not to do so based on stereotypes about the class symbolism of their names, or what they look like, FFS!
However, I would say that they were unfortunate or cavalier not to take account of three things that could have been known in advance:
1) Marseille, given its nature and population mix is quite high risk for something like this
2) This risk is increased when Russian fans are involved, given their reputation for organised violence and the tolerant/encouraging attitudes of their authorities towards it.
3) French riot police (and I do have personal experience of this) tend to strike first and ask questions afterwards. There's no use complaining about it: rather if you travel abroad you need to be aware of the legal/policing norms in the relevant country, and take account of it in deciding where to go, who you're with, and how to behave


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[FalmerforAll!**]

Not patronising at all. I am 29 but realise that £3k is a lot of money to most people. I know it sounds like I am condemning people but I can't see why anyone would not contest the charges if they were just acting in self defence. I wasn't there so I don't know but I would put forward a solicitor to defend me if I was simply defending myself. I can't afford to travel home and away to follow the Albion and England but I can afford a solicitor if faced with a banning order

That's exactly it though, you weren't there. You haven't even seen the video evidence. The fact that you have a rainy day fund for something like this is admirable but unfortunately in this instance is not something that the chaps in question had the benefit of.

They were given notice on 27th June, next excuse?

Given notice on 26th June, in court 27th June. Some didn't receive the knock on the door from our friends at Sussex Police until gone midnight on that Sunday evening but found themselves in court by Monday. The Argus haven't reported it until today. Big difference.

 

[The Kid Frankie]

They were given notice on 27th June, next excuse?

They appeared in court on the 27th. It has just taken the local media this long to bring it to light. They received the knock on the door from the police to let them know roughly around midnight the night before.

 

[severnside gull]

So one of the main defences for these people (as they didn't defend themselves in court) is that if thugs from another club attack other Brighton fans they are known to be ready to get "stuck in" on their behalf...... Which loosely speaking appears to be precisely what they were collared for in France.

Might be best to take another track

 

[soistes]

although I've never actually been burgled or beaten-up by toffs)!

You've obviously never worked in an Oxford pub or restaurant when the Bullingdon boys are out for the night then!


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[wellquickwoody]

I do like the way that you've made this sound like it was justified if it was a journalist, but it just unfortunately turned out to be a police man

Threw a drink, not a punch, a drink. I do like the way you make this out to be an assault on an innocent bystander.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Better dressed?

Dress to the left more like!

 

[LA1972]

OK so you don't enter a plea but they didn't contest it. I would have done if innocent

Lucky you to have that much money

 

[Grombleton]

So one of the main defences for these people (as they didn't defend themselves in court) is that if thugs from another club attack other Brighton fans they are known to be ready to get "stuck in" on their behalf...... Which loosely speaking appears to be precisely what they were collared for in France.

Might be best to take another track

For me, it's the attitude that if someone is to make a run for it away from trouble, then they are somehow inferior beings to others. It's a weird concept.

 

[Harold]

They were given notice on 27th June, next excuse?

Point being, late house visit in some cases, with court appearance next day. Not looking for excuses thank you.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Where in the relevant legislation does it state that defending yourself is a defence.

The court must make an order if satisfied that the respondent has at any time caused or contributed to any violence or disorder

While you may not like the banning order, it looks pretty straight forward from the reports that they had contributed to disorder and therefore the banning order is the correct outcome

Contributed to.... ie, if they weren't there at the time then they wouldn't have been hit, punched, have stuff thrown at them, etc (even if they don't retaliate) so by merely being present during the trouble, they have contributed to the incident even if they were an innocent victim in the wrong place at the wrong time?

I wonder how many Russians face banning consequences. .....or will they all get away with it? Is it just the English fans being punished? (Genuine questions)

FBOs are due to our own laws, they may or may not even exist in Russia

The legislation only requires a complaint in this instance so not being convicted of an offence is irrelevant

So someone makes a baseless claim against an individual and that's enough to judge them as guilty?

As previously pointed out being able to defend yourself properly in this country can be cost prohibitive, especially when up against the state with limitless resources to use.

There was a member of the public in the US who was falsely accused by the police of being a shooter in the recent killings of 5 police officers (the guy taking part in the protest whilst carrying an assault rifle) yet he was just innocently caught up in the troubles and eventually cleared of any involvement, but by your standards above of guilt by accusation / complaint, the fact that he was even considered a suspect would be enough to make a case against someone and ban them. then you take into account people who make malicious complaints or an innocent bystander who get mistaken for someone else who was far more involved and therefore mistakenly deemed to be more involved, again both enough to bring a FBO case against the individuals

 

[seagurn]

If you go to away games, Sussex police tend to know who you are! Darren Balkham often comes in the pubs for a chat!

I think he'll get the cold shoulder in some of the pubs and rightly so. I think from what i've heard that they where nicked purposely so they would be prevented from going back out as we would of played france next game but Iceland put pay to that.Shame as i know there flag has turned up in Russia and they are all a good bunch of lads. Shame on you Sussex police

 

[bn1&bn3 Albion]

YouTube videos have shown people running away were still attacked... Ask your self this, would you rather turn your back and not know what's coming, or stand and fight and know what's coming your way?

 

[sjamesb3466]

That's exactly it though, you weren't there. You haven't even seen the video evidence. The fact that you have a rainy day fund for something like this is admirable but unfortunately in this instance is not something that the chaps in question had the benefit of.


Given notice on 26th June, in court 27th June. Some didn't receive the knock on the door from our friends at Sussex Police until gone midnight on that Sunday evening but found themselves in court by Monday. The Argus haven't reported it until today. Big difference.

I agree I wasn't there and haven't seen the video. I still don't believe that having gone to the trouble of sending officers overseas that they would stitch up innocent bystanders that were simply defending themselves. Maybe I am just naive but I happen to truth the police in most circumstances. I must be brainwashed. As per the report the video evidence shows confronting the Russian fans and undercover police is the only thing I can go on.

For the record, I don't have a rainy day fund, but if I could afford to spend thousands on following England in France I would have some money for emergencies.

I am happy to admit being wrong as it read that they were served notice on 27th June and the hearing was this week. If that's not the case that is very poor notice. Doesn't stop people contesting it though. I just can't understand that if you've done nothing wrong.

 

[severnside gull]

For me, it's the attitude that if someone is to make a run for it away from trouble, then they are somehow inferior beings to others. It's a weird concept.

Never avoid conflict when you can get stuck in......... oops sorry, should've said be in the middle of it, or maybe stoke it up if not actually start it?

I too struggle with the mentality but at least if these thugs are absent on parade for a few years the response here shows that there will be plenty similarly minded to step up to the plate. Unless it's all keyboard warriors or cheering on from the sidelines. It usually is IME,

 

[Buzzer]

Unless it's all keyboard warriors or cheering on from the sidelines. It usually is IME,

Most of the keyboard warriors in this thread are those shouting "neanderthal". "thug" and God knows what else over the internet about a situation they have only the scantest details and about blokes that they'd shit themselves rather than say it to their faces in real life.

These threads always crack me up. So many people apparently that turn their noses up at the mere thought of a bit of fisticuffs between rival fans yet these are always the most popular threads. Funny that.

 

[studio150]

So someone makes a baseless claim against an individual and that's enough to judge them as guilty?

No, it still has to be proved that the accused has at any time caused or contributed to any violence or disorder in the United Kingdom or elsewhere.

The complaint has to be brought by the chief police officer where the accused lives, so there would be a degree of evidence gathering first, if someone just reported a baseless claim to the police.

 

[LABHA]

Correct none of the 5 have been involved or convicted of any football related issues

 

[The Kid Frankie]

Most of the keyboard warriors in this thread are those shouting "neanderthal". "thug" and God knows what else over the internet about a situation they have only the scantest details and about blokes that they'd shit themselves rather than say it to their faces in real life.

These threads always crack me up. So many people apparently that turn their noses up at the mere thought of a bit of fisticuffs between rival fans yet these are always the most popular threads. Funny that.

Nail on head