[Food] Beyond Meat boss backs tax on meat consumption

[Herr Tubthumper]

It’s called “pigouvian tax”. Good idea?

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58032552

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

And we’re off

 

[beorhthelm]

for such a tax to be effective it needs to be high, and thats going to be extremly unpopular.

more to the point though, if there is so much less production, energy and manufacturing involved in making meat free, why is it more expensive?

 

[Pevenseagull]

Well, he would, wouldn't he?

 

[Guinness Boy]

Seems like a good idea for his business.

Scratch and sniff a hippy and you'll find a ruthless economic liberal reactionary most of the time. Branson's the same.

 

[Hotchilidog]

The thinking behind it would be the same as petrol duty or tobacco. Animal agriculture is a significant contributor to climate change and damage to the planet. Tackling this issue is as important as tackling fossil fuels in my opinion. Tackling climate change should be met with the same vigour as the COVID virus.

 

[Baker lite]

How much would I have to pay on a cocktail sausage?..

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

How much would I have to pay on a cocktail sausage?..

Nothing, and very yummy they are too

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

for such a tax to be effective it needs to be high, and thats going to be extremly unpopular.

more to the point though, if there is so much less production, energy and manufacturing involved in making meat free, why is it more expensive?

Economies of scale perhaps involved in manufacture, distribution and availability?

 

[Hotchilidog]

Economies of scale perhaps involved in manufacture, distribution and availability?

Pretty much this.

 

[Nitram]

Education not taxation. As a counter I’d also encourage a discussion on all processed foods, Veg and Meat highlighting how unhealthy they are. In particular the whole industry behind Veg alternatives that are not as healthy as they seem but are promoted as healthy alternatives to meat.

 

[beorhthelm]

Economies of scale perhaps involved in manufacture, distribution and availability?

thats the obvious go-to answer. trouble is the chap (and industry) want to tell us how much cheaper production and manufacture of plant protein is, so where are the efficiencies lost?

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

Education not taxation. As a counter I’d also encourage a discussion on all processed foods, Veg and Meat highlighting how unhealthy they are. In particular the whole industry behind Veg alternatives that are not as healthy as they seem but are promoted as healthy alternatives to meat.

I do wonder about the FSA in this country. Several big brand pizza companies recently turned the ‘rainbow content strips’ for saturates, salt, sugar on their packaging either all black or all white, completely bypassing the whole point of it - to flag up as ‘red’ the high numbers. How does that pass FSA, or whoever governs that, approval?

On your point, in my experience the non meat products I buy are always pretty low for saturated fat, salt and sugar. My mum actually wrote to Morrisons about one of their veggie products being branded ‘good for you’ when it contained a load of artificial content and within a month or two that wording had disappeared from the packaging.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

Education not taxation. As a counter I’d also encourage a discussion on all processed foods, Veg and Meat highlighting how unhealthy they are. In particular the whole industry behind Veg alternatives that are not as healthy as they seem but are promoted as healthy alternatives to meat.

Generally, plant based ‘meat’ is healthier than actual meat, as they tend to be lower in trans fats, saturated fat, cholesterol levels and sodium (but perhaps less so that the aforementioned). They are however, still not healthy. Moreover, meat alternatives aren’t necessarily about being the healthy choice, more so the more environmentally and animal friendly ones. Perfect shouldn’t be the enemy of the good.

 

[FatSuperman]

thats the obvious go-to answer. trouble is the chap (and industry) want to tell us how much cheaper production and manufacture of plant protein is, so where are the efficiencies lost?

I don't understand your follow-up? The previous answer is the answer... non-meat alternatives have not reached anywhere near the scale to make them cost-competitive with meat.

I'm not convinced on a tax, it paints some pretty bleak pictures in my head - but we've already got the soft drinks levy and that has gone down ok I think. So a tax on unhealthy foods (Dominoes mighty meaty costing you 50p extra) that funds green and health initiatives is probably a good thing. But I think we need a big education push alongside it, because otherwise the less well engaged among the population will just keep feeding their kids chicken nuggets and simply see their food bills go up, and struggle even further.

When plant based or lab-grown meat hits an economy of scale, and becomes cheaper than normal meat, with little discernible difference, then I think we'll see an enormous change in attitudes. For most people, price is king. A bit of tax to help accelerate the switch, could be sensible.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

thats the obvious go-to answer. trouble is the chap (and industry) want to tell us how much cheaper production and manufacture of plant protein is, so where are the efficiencies lost?

Perhaps he is speaking with the caveat that if the meat alternative industry had similar resources, then costs would be cheaper? Until something is scaled up, the benefit would always be tantalisingly out of reach. I am a full on meat eater but I recognise the need to cut down, both for my health and more importantly, the planet's.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I don't understand your follow-up? The previous answer is the answer... non-meat alternatives have not reached anywhere near the scale to make them cost-competitive with meat.

I'm not convinced on a tax, it paints some pretty bleak pictures in my head - but we've already got the soft drinks levy and that has gone down ok I think. So a tax on unhealthy foods (Dominoes mighty meaty costing you 50p extra) that funds green and health initiatives is probably a good thing. But I think we need a big education push alongside it, because otherwise the less well engaged among the population will just keep feeding their kids chicken nuggets and simply see their food bills go up, and struggle even further.

When plant based or lab-grown meat hits an economy of scale, and becomes cheaper than normal meat, with little discernible difference, then I think we'll see an enormous change in attitudes. For most people, price is king. A bit of tax to help accelerate the switch, could be sensible.

I agree education is a good idea but how much education does it actually take to inform a family that eating chicken nuggets every day is a bad thing? Surely most already know and it’s a, relatively, informed lifestyle choice?

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

I don't understand your follow-up? The previous answer is the answer... non-meat alternatives have not reached anywhere near the scale to make them cost-competitive with meat.

I'm not convinced on a tax, it paints some pretty bleak pictures in my head - but we've already got the soft drinks levy and that has gone down ok I think. So a tax on unhealthy foods (Dominoes mighty meaty costing you 50p extra) that funds green and health initiatives is probably a good thing. But I think we need a big education push alongside it, because otherwise the less well engaged among the population will just keep feeding their kids chicken nuggets and simply see their food bills go up, and struggle even further.

When plant based or lab-grown meat hits an economy of scale, and becomes cheaper than normal meat, with little discernible difference, then I think we'll see an enormous change in attitudes. For most people, price is king. A bit of tax to help accelerate the switch, could be sensible.

I think a lot needs to be said for convenience too. Eating a whole food plant based diet is incredibly cheap but, if you’ve lived a life of eating meat with pretty much every meal, it can be a bit of minefield to know what meals to prepare.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Why not, there are lots of fatties out there that could lose a few pounds

 

[beorhthelm]

I don't understand your follow-up? The previous answer is the answer... non-meat alternatives have not reached anywhere near the scale to make them cost-competitive with meat.

the production goes like this
meat burger: grazing/crops x4-5 -> animal raised -> slaughter -> processing -> delivery
meat free: crops -> processing -> delivery

the economy of scale is only in the processing part. this suggest that all the extra crops, animal husbandry etc are costing less than the process to make a meat free product. seems a lot for economy of scale to cover if there are mulitples lower input costs.