[Albion] Between two teams

[RandyWanger]

Why, when defending corners, do we pack our own box? Surely if we're a counter attacking team, you'd leave at least one fast player hight up the pitch (taking away 1 or 2 of their players) for the counter?
I don't see us as a counterattacking team at all. More a tippy tappy pass the ball into the most congested area of the pitch and try walk the ball in kind of team.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Graham Potter and RDZ both had the idea that games should be controlled and dominated whenever even remotely possible.

They had different approaches: GP is and will likely remain the only PL manager to play ~15 different formations in any given season. RDZ more of a "we take this system and try to reach perfection. But both wanted very similar things.

Hurz indeed seems to be less interested in control and yes there may be something of a culture clash right now.

Exactly what the "football style plans" from the club and the manager are not exactly vividly clear right now... but as unsexy as it seems we also need to understand that the business side of things play a part in this.

Those who normally benefit most from chaotic games are the wingers who get spaces and opportunities they otherwise doesn't get. And we have wingers to sell, so we want them to perform, which they sometimes struggle with when teams "over-control" games; see last season for some prime examples.

I think the key to winning is having an identity. Playing to your strengths. It sounds simple doesn’t it. Take a look at Forest. No intention to control or dominate possession but they are superb at the back, especially their central defenders. They’ve then mastered counterattacking. They face very different defensive formations to the sort we face because they encourage the opposition into their half in an effort to get their defenders out of position. De Zerbi was certainly keen on this tactic as he mastered the art of playing in our own half and hitting the opponent after their high press failed. Unfortunately, he got worked out and with the injuries he had allied to his emotional instability, we sank.

Potter was the opposite in many ways. But bringing players with you into that level of adaptability and complexity was always going to be hard. But he did have the ability to beat teams almost with his formation alone. I remember the 3-0 home game against Newcastle in March ‘21 that probably got Bruce the sack, he was almost sobbing in the dugout because he had no idea as to what our formation was or how our tactics would play out.

Welbeck played wide left wing and Maupay, wide right wing. Moder and Groß effectively played as a pair of CAMs constantly breaking into the box with Trossard free to float around and cause chaos. Possession was locked in the middle with Lallana dictating the game and a back 3 or Velts, peak Dunk and White is rarely going to be troubled with Bissouma keeping guard in front of them. An utterly joyous match but I don’t remember ever seeing this formation or tactics again? For each one of these ‘genius’ performances, there were half a dozen horrific draws where his players would smash the XG figures but rarely smash the back of the net. Frustrating. Potter was too smart for his own good as he prioritised ‘change’ over consistency. Only when he’d ditched this approach and started playing a consistent team and formation did we settle into the top 4 and look like we belonged there.

So, back to ‘simplicity’, the OP declares that we played a game plan to perfection away against Newcastle this season. No. Rubbish. We were profoundly lucky. Newcastle missed some amazing chances in that match. They don’t miss anymore. If that game was replayed tonight, they’d thump us 3-1 or 4-1 with the same chances they created. Smug Eddie has got them believing again. And that’s the crux really. Your players have to put the ball in the back of the net. It took Potter years to convince his players that they could score, when he finally did, we were headed to the Champions League and would have got there if he’d stayed. Potter never convinced the Chelsea millionaires they could score either, but given 3 or 4 seasons, he definitely would have.

What Fab needs to do is get the players scoring again. That is, I suggest, the hardest thing to achieve in football. One that Slot is excelling at but the generational talent Pep is failing at right now. Welbz is injured/sulking/off to manure (depending on what conspiracy theory you sign up to), Pedro has stopped shooting, Georginio is a bench player without Welbz to hold his hand on pitch, Ferguson has not recovered his confidence, pace, strength and ball control yet. Our wingers are not helping with goals anymore, we don’t score from set-pieces and the midfield seems to be the only place we can pick up an odd goal from every now and then but even that channel is sparse.

Fab has a lot of work to do but as Smug Eddie has proved at the Toon, once you get them scoring, you can go on an amazing run. We absolutely have the goal scoring talent Newcastle does, it’s just that age old problem of getting the ball in the back of the net. Could this be the night things change?

 

[Brian Fantana]

I think the key to winning is having an identity. Playing to your strengths. It sounds simple doesn’t it. Take a look at Forest. No intention to control or dominate possession but they are superb at the back, especially their central defenders. They’ve then mastered counterattacking. They face very different defensive formations to the sort we face because they encourage the opposition into their half in an effort to get their defenders out of position. De Zerbi was certainly keen on this tactic as he mastered the art of playing in our own half and hitting the opponent after their high press failed. Unfortunately, he got worked out and with the injuries he had allied to his emotional instability, we sank.

Potter was the opposite in many ways. But bringing players with you into that level of adaptability and complexity was always going to be hard. But he did have the ability to beat teams almost with his formation alone. I remember the 3-0 home game against Newcastle in March ‘21 that probably got Bruce the sack, he was almost sobbing in the dugout because he had no idea as to what our formation was or how our tactics would play out.
View attachment 194328
Welbeck played wide left wing and Maupay, wide right wing. Moder and Groß effectively played as a pair of CAMs constantly breaking into the box with Trossard free to float around and cause chaos. Possession was locked in the middle with Lallana dictating the game and a back 3 or Velts, peak Dunk and White is rarely going to be troubled with Bissouma keeping guard in front of them. An utter joyous match but I don’t remember ever seeing this formation or tactics again. For each one of these ‘genius’ performances, there were half a dozen horrific draws where his players would smash the XG figures but rarely smash the back of the net. Frustrating. Potter was too smart for his own good as he prioritised ‘change’ over consistency. Only when he’d ditched this approach and started playing a consistent team and formation did we settle into the top 4 and look like we belonged there.

So, back to ‘simplicity’, the OP declares that we played a game plan to perfection away against Newcastle this season. No. Rubbish. We were profoundly lucky. Newcastle missed some amazing chances in that match. They don’t miss anymore. If that game was replayed tonight, they’d thump us 3-1 or 4-1 with the same chances they created. Smug Eddie has got them believing again. And that’s the crux really. Your players have to put the ball in the back of the net. It took Potter years to convince his players that they could score, when he finally did, we were headed to the Champions League and would have got there if he’d stayed. Potter never convinced the Chelsea millionaires they could score either, but given 3 or 4 seasons, he definitely would have.

What Fab needs to do is get the players scoring again. That is, I suggest, the hardest thing to achieve in football. One that Slot is excelling at but the generational talent Pep is failing at right now. Welbz is injured/sulking/off to manure (depending on what conspiracy theory you sign up to), Pedro has stopped shooting, Georginio is a bench player without Welbz to hold his hand on pitch, Ferguson has not recovered his confidence, pace, strength, and ball control yet. Our wingers are not helping with goals anymore, we don’t score from set-pieces and the midfield seems to be the only place we can pick up an odd goal from every now and then.

Fab has a lot of work to do but as Smug Eddie has proved at the Toon, once you get them scoring, you can go on an amazing run. We absolutely have the goal scoring talent Newcastle does, it’s just that age old problem of getting the ball in the back of the net. Could this be the night things change?

This is a terrific post.

I think your final paragraph probably sums up everything right now - does FH have the man management skills to get his players out of a rut? His last season at SP was obviously focussed more on keeping continued success going, so he's in a slightly different position this season. I'm really on the fence about him in general, so I wouldn't be surprised to see it go in either direction here.

 

[Napper]

Well whatever the team was doing at the beginning of the season

getting lucky