Bennetts Field Car Park - Recommendation to Lewes DC is to Approve, with Conditions

[Lord Bracknell]

Right. Sounds nice and close for the disabled fans.

Some of them, at least.

 

[Jimbo.GRFC]

Its obviously not going to be ready in time. Are there any estimates as to how long its going to take to get this car park and the new road layout in place ?

It's already completed, just needs the lines painted !!

 

[Uter]

But there's no evidence that the Academy has or will agree to this, just a statement of intent/wish from the applicant (BHA) in the Bennett's Wood application. As LB has commented elsewhere, it may well be that a lack of a agreement for "permanent" parking at the stadium together with the 2014 time limit recommendation for Bennett's Wood could make any application to extend the stadium capacity more difficult to get approved.

My understanding is that Brighton and Hove council have retained some land from the development of the new academy and it is here that the match day parking will eventually be sited. In the link attached this area is marked in blue. Obviously this land cannot be used until the buildings on it have been demolished and this cannot happen until the new school is completely open. But the point is that the decision on it's use won't be down to the Academy, it will be down to the council.

Of course this document is from 2007 and things may have changed. The council might have other plans for this land now (in fact I recall Martin Perry saying something about underground parking on the radio a few months ago. I may have completely misremembered this, but if it is the case then that suggests there are significant plans for this site, hence the need for a three year planning consent for Bennett's field).

http://www.eastsussex.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/4AA5F7DB-F90D-4D13-87F3-AB772B77071E/13220/Item13HistoricalResourceCentre.pdf

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

more strain on the train

 

[Drumstick]

Some may come from the Woodingdean direction including the Racecourse P&R I'd guess which will help a little. That'd be the best route right for P&R plus the buses from Rottingdean they mentioned about being sent up?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Some may come from the Woodingdean direction including the Racecourse P&R I'd guess which will help a little. That'd be the best route right for P&R plus the buses from Rottingdean they mentioned about being sent up?

It's difficult to predict the length of the expected traffic queues either side of the Village Way junction. It isn't helpful that there were some errors in the queue-length forecasts that the Club's transport consultants submitted to LDC and ESCC. I guess a "suck it and see" approach is now being developed.

 

[The Large One]

But there's no evidence that the Academy has or will agree to this, just a statement of intent/wish from the applicant (BHA) in the Bennett's Wood application. As LB has commented elsewhere, it may well be that a lack of a agreement for "permanent" parking at the stadium together with the 2014 time limit recommendation for Bennett's Wood could make any application to extend the stadium capacity more difficult to get approved.

I was more of the thought that the Falmer School / Aldridge Academy parking site was fully agreed way back in the original planning application.

Ed?

 

[Brighton M]

It's difficult to predict the length of the expected traffic queues either side of the Village Way junction. It isn't helpful that there were some errors in the queue-length forecasts that the Club's transport consultants submitted to LDC and ESCC. I guess a "suck it and see" approach is now being developed.

Hope that's not a "I could have done it better" post ??

 

[Superphil]

The conditions are:-

1. Permission is until June 2014 only. The car park must then be reinstated as agricultural land;

That's going to be a useful piece of agricultural land isn't it?

 

[Superphil]

Some of them, at least.

How many disabled access parking spaces are proposed in total for the stadium, and is there an accurate estimate as to how many fans we have who will need disabled parking spaces?

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

My understanding is that Brighton and Hove council have retained some land from the development of the new academy and it is here that the match day parking will eventually be sited. In the link attached this area is marked in blue. Obviously this land cannot be used until the buildings on it have been demolished and this cannot happen until the new school is completely open. But the point is that the decision on it's use won't be down to the Academy, it will be down to the council.

Of course this document is from 2007 and things may have changed. The council might have other plans for this land now (in fact I recall Martin Perry saying something about underground parking on the radio a few months ago. I may have completely misremembered this, but if it is the case then that suggests there are significant plans for this site, hence the need for a three year planning consent for Bennett's field).

http://www.eastsussex.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/4AA5F7DB-F90D-4D13-87F3-AB772B77071E/13220/Item13HistoricalResourceCentre.pdf

I've heard much of this too, including the redevelopment option. However, it's clearly not a done deal or otherwise it would surely have been included as such in the Bennett's Field application?
The issue about stadium expansion is, that if BF is indeed approved as per the LDC officers' recommendation, then after May 2014 the club will be 650 parking spaces down on the current permission for 22,500 spectators. If this council/academy land comes off then that'll replace Bennetts Field (ie 2,000 attendees at x3 per car) but how does the the additional capacity (8,000, 10,000, whatever) get to the stadium? Train, bus or P&R - the first two are likely to be swamped when the stadium opens in August with train capacity looking "problematic" even in the original application. The club might/should have some more robust data on all three from the Amex STH intention survey but who knows? From memory, Amex P&R capacity atm is about 1,500 so your looking at now trebling this to get in another 10,000 fans. You go for more coaches and are faced with a coach park that holds only 60. Eees difficult eh?

 

[Hotchilidog]

It's difficult to predict the length of the expected traffic queues either side of the Village Way junction. It isn't helpful that there were some errors in the queue-length forecasts that the Club's transport consultants submitted to LDC and ESCC. I guess a "suck it and see" approach is now being developed.

My guess is that, certainly initially, that there will be very long queues. I do not think it realistic to to expect anything else. Regardless of what parking amenities are provided at the Amex people will have to be patient and put up with queues that could be anything from a quick getaway to an hour, just like we have to put up with at any other ground we travel too. I remember it taking what seemed like an eternity to get out of a car park nearby to St Mary's last season, it didn't ruin my day.

At the risk of repeating myself yet again, the Amex is not on the moon, people will be able to get to and from it somehow, just like everyone else at every other major stadium. The days of leaving at full time and being clear of the ground in five minutes are long gone. At least this stadium is not reliant on one individual mode of transport to take the strain, in fact the full mix is available. Private car, park and ride, public bus, private coaches, the train, by cycle and finally on foot!

It will by no means be perfect, but it will settle down and people will get into their own routines and discover what works best. I do not feel the club have been deliberately obstructive or remiss in their travel plans, as the tone of some comments would suggest, but given the time lapse between the original application and the project finally reaching fruition the plans will have had to have been changed, hence the apparently fluid nature of them at the moment.

 

[Return of the Rev]

Ed, could you show on a map, exactly where this piece of ground is.
Ta

 

[Superphil]

My guess is that, certainly initially, that there will be very long queues. I do not think it realistic to to expect anything else. Regardless of what parking amenities are provided at the Amex people will have to be patient and put up with queues that could be anything from a quick getaway to an hour, just like we have to put up with at any other ground we travel too. I remember it taking what seemed like an eternity to get out of a car park nearby to St Mary's last season, it didn't ruin my day.

At the risk of repeating myself yet again, the Amex is not on the moon, people will be able to get to and from it somehow, just like everyone else at every other major stadium. The days of leaving at full time and being clear of the ground in five minutes are long gone. At least this stadium is not reliant on one individual mode of transport to take the strain, in fact the full mix is available. Private car, park and ride, public bus, private coaches, the train, by cycle and finally on foot!

It will by no means be perfect, but it will settle down and people will get into their own routines and discover what works best. I do not feel the club have been deliberately obstructive or remiss in their travel plans, as the tone of some comments would suggest, but given the time lapse between the original application and the project finally reaching fruition the plans will have had to have been changed, hence the apparently fluid nature of them at the moment.

How dare you start speaking sense!

 

[Lord Bracknell]

I was more of the thought that the Falmer School / Aldridge Academy parking site was fully agreed way back in the original planning application.

Ed?

Planning permission was granted for the use of a corner of the playing field. But getting planning permission isn't the only step that needs to be taken. You also need the agreement of the owner of the land.

As Uter has pointed out, things have changed since 2007. It would now appear that a different site is now being considered for use as a car park and that isn't available yet.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Hope that's not a "I could have done it better" post ??

Certainly not. Traffic modelling is way beyond my technical capability. All I do know, though, is that the model needs to start with accurate data.

GIGO, as they used to say.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

How many disabled access parking spaces are proposed in total for the stadium, and is there an accurate estimate as to how many fans we have who will need disabled parking spaces?

As far as I know, that's not yet been finalised.

I've made my own estimate - which IS based, incidentally, on technical expertise and experience I have - and have provided it to BODS, back in February. But I haven't been involved in any direct discussions with the Club.

 

[cardboard]

I think the only major delays from this new car park would be after matches. If most spaces are hospitality then i would imagine people would probably get to the ground a few hours before kick off and therefore not interupt the vast majority of fans coaches, buses etc.

 

[Superphil]

I think the only major delays from this new car park would be after matches. If most spaces are hospitality then i would imagine people would probably get to the ground a few hours before kick off and therefore not interupt the vast majority of fans coaches, buses etc.

That's a good point, most of the time Hospitality guests arrive considerably earlier than kick off, as their package usually includes a pre match meal, and likewise, following the game they have the match presentations, and bits and pieces, so don't leave for about an hour after the game. So, good, that's that sorted then.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

As Uter has pointed out, things have changed since 2007. It would now appear that a different site is now being considered for use as a car park and that isn't available yet.

I agree but this is the only substantial change as far I can see - ie a 650 space parking "swap" and that affects around 2,000 attendees directly, so that's <10% of the approved capacity. Apart the Connex franchise moving to Southern is there anything else that's really different from what was intended in the original stadium application?
As Uter says, it's all there back in 2002(?): walking, cycling, bus, coach, train, P&R and 2,000-2,200 parking spaces, even the Racehill is specified as a P&R site despite a planning application not being submitted until April 2011. Finally, the B&HCC consent under which the stadium is actually being built (2008/02732) was, the Planning Committee were told, largely an update to conform with current Building, H&S etc regulations that had been brought in since the early 2000's. That was the opportunity to introduce any changes but there was nothing new on travel and transport.

Sorry, having worked in restructuring and project planning for the past 15 years, albeit in the pharmaceutical industry, I just can't buy the premise that all is well here - there's 34 days to go ffs!! I hope it is, I really do....but......