Benefits and tax: astounding graphic

[drew]

Legal definition of theft: Appropriation of property with the intention to permanently deprive ((with a menace) as you could argue it's robbery). Regardless of the services, you have no CHOICE in paying for them, whether you wish to use them or not. Much like being asked if you want add-ons with Sky TV, if you don't want them you shouldn't have to pay for them.

Not everyone can afford to move to Qatar, because you know. We're taxed a fair amount our take home pay is low, and then coupled with inflation and low purchasing power due to loose monetary policy, it's difficult to make that pound go further.

Suggest you get a life!

 

[GreersElbow]

That part is not true though is it? In return we get education, health care, roads and numerous other things.

We do, we do indeed. Dodgy PFI schemes, and a healthcare service that's far too bureaucratic and is faltering behind Europe as a result.

The assumption you're making is that EVERYONE wants what they're getting out of their taxes.

And roads, when was the last time a road was properly fixed, not using awful material that absorbs water then buckles due to heat?

Suggest you get a life!

Coming from the bloke insulting over the internet. U iz lyk wel 'ard.

 

[drew]

That part is not true though is it? In return we get education, health care, roads and numerous other things.

Exactly, would like to know how Greers Elbow gets through life without utilising the services taxations pays for.

 

[GreersElbow]

Exactly, would like to know how Greers Elbow gets through life without utilising the services taxations pays for.

Mental age: 11?

Yes.

Yes a lot of things could do with improving but they would not exist at all without taxation.

What an assumption to make, would they not? Are human beings not rational enough without a central government?

 

[Nibble]

Legal definition of theft: Appropriation of property with the intention to permanently deprive for them.
.

You mean like the corporations that permanently deprive the citizens of Britain the tax money that belongs to us for services such as NHS?

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

Are human beings not rational enough without a central government

TAX HISTORY CHRONOLOGY

EGYPT

During the various reins of the Egyptian Pharaohs tax collectors were known as scribes. During one period the scribes imposed a tax on cooking oil. To insure that citizens were not avoiding the cooking oil tax scribes would audit households to insure that appropriate amounts of cooking oil were consumed and that citizens were not using leavings generated by other cooking processes as a substitute for the taxed oil.

GREECE1

In times of war the Athenians imposed a tax referred to as eisphora. No one was exempt from the tax which was used to pay for special wartime expenditures. The Greeks are one of the few societies that were able to rescind the tax once the emergency was over. When additional resources were gained by the war effort the resources were used to refund the tax.

Athenians imposed a monthly poll tax on foreigners, people who did not have both an Athenian Mother and Father, of one drachma for men and a half drachma for women. The tax was referred to as metoikion

ROMAN EMPIRE

The earliest taxes in Rome were customs duties on imports and exports called portoria.1

Caesar Augustus was consider by many to be the most brilliant tax strategist of the Roman Empire. During his reign as "First Citizen" the publicani were virtually eliminated as tax collectors for the central government. During this period cities were given the responsibility for collecting taxes. Caesar Augustus instituted an inheritance tax to provide retirement funds for the military. The tax was 5 percent on all inheritances except gifts to children and spouses. The English and Dutch referred to the inheritance tax of Augustus in developing their own inheritance taxes.

During the time of Julius Caesar a 1 percent sales tax was imposed. During the time of Caesar Augustus the sales tax was 4 percent for slaves and 1 percent for everything else.1

Saint Matthew was a publican (tax collector) from Capernaum during Caesar Augustus reign. He was not of the old publicani but hired by the local government to collect taxes.

In 60 A.D. Boadicea, queen of East Anglia led a revolt that can be attributed to corrupt tax collectors in the British Isles. Her revolt allegedly killed all Roman soldiers within 100 miles; seized London; and it is said that over 80,000 people were killed during the revolt. The Queen was able to raise an army of 230,000. The revolt was crushed by Emperor Nero and resulted in the appointment of new administrators for the British Isles.1

GREAT BRITAIN

The first tax assessed in England was during occupation by the Roman Empire.

Lady Godiva
Lady Godiva was an Anglo-Saxon woman who lived in England during the 11th century. According to legend, Lady Godiva's husband Leofric, Earl of Mercia, promised to reduce the high taxes he levied on the residents of Coventry when she agreed to ride naked through the streets of the town.

When Rome fell, the Saxon kings imposed taxes, referred to as Danegeld, on land and property. The kings also imposed substantial customs duties.

The 100 years War (the conflict between England and France) began in 1337 and ended in 1453. One of the key factors that renewed fighting in 1369 was the rebellion of the nobles of Aquitaine over the oppressive tax policies of Edward, The Black Prince.

Taxes during 14th century were very progressive; The 1377 Poll tax noted that the tax on the Duke of Lancaster was 520 times the tax on the common peasant.

Under the earliest taxing schemes an income tax was imposed on the wealthy, office holders, and the clergy. A tax on movable property was imposed on merchants. The poor paid little or no taxes.

Charles I was ultimately charged with treason and beheaded. However, his problems with Parliament came about because of a disagreement in 1629 about the rights of taxation afforded the King and the rights of taxation afforded the Parliament.

The King's Writ stated that individuals should be taxed according to status and means. Hence the idea of a progressive tax on those with the ability to pay was developed very early.

Other prominent taxes imposed during this period were taxes on land and various excise taxes. To pay for the army commanded by Oliver Cromwell, Parliament, in 1643, imposed excise taxes on essential commodities (grain, meat, etc.). The taxes imposed by Parliament extracted even more funds than taxes imposed by Charles I, especially from the poor. The excise tax was very regressive, increasing the tax on the poor so much that the Smithfield riots occurred in 1647. The riots occurred because the new taxes lowered rural laborers ability to buy wheat to the point where a family of four would starve. In addition to the excise tax, the common lands used for hunting by the peasant class were enclosed and peasant hunting was banned (hooray for Robin Hood).

A precursor to the modern income tax we know today was invented by the British in 1800 to finance their engagement in the war with Napoleon. The tax was repealed in 1816 and opponents of the tax, who thought it should only be used to finance wars, wanted all records of the tax destroyed along with its repeal. Records were publicly burned by the Chancellor of the Exchequer but copies were retained in the basement of the tax court.4

COLONIAL AMERICA
Colonists were paying taxes under the Molasses Act which was modified in 1764 to include import duties on foreign molasses, sugar, wine and other commodities. The new act was known as the Sugar Act.
Because the Sugar Act did not raise substantial revenue amounts, the Stamp Act was added in 1765. The Stamp Act imposed a direct tax on all newspapers printed in the colonies and most commercial and legal documents.

POST-REVOLUTION AMERICA
In 1794 Settlers west of the Alleghenies, in opposition to Alexander Hamilton's excise tax of 1791, started what is now known as the "Whiskey Rebellion" The excise tax was considered discriminatory and the settlers rioted against the tax collectors . President Washington eventually sent troops to quell the riots. Although two settlers were eventually convicted of treason, the President granted each a pardon.
In 1798 Congress enacted the Federal Property Tax to pay for the expansion of the Army and Navy in the event of possible war with France. In the same year, John Fries began what is referred to as the "Fries Rebellion," in opposition to the new tax. No one was injured or killed in the insurrection and Fries was arrested for treason but eventually pardoned by President Adams in 1800. Surprisingly, Fries was the leader of a militia unit called out to suppress the "Whiskey Rebellion."2
The first income tax suggested in the United States was during the War of 1812. The tax was based on the British Tax Act of 1798 and applied progressive rates to income. The rates were .08% on income above £60 and 10 percent on income above £200. The tax was developed in 1814 but was never imposed because the treaty of Ghent was signed in 1815 ending hostilities and the need for additional revenue.

The Tax Act of 1861 proposed that "there shall be levied, collected, and paid, upon annual income of every person residing in the U.S. whether derived from any kind of property, or from any professional trade, employment, or vocation carried on in the United States or elsewhere, or from any source whatever.

The 1861 Tax Act was passed but never put in force. Rates under the Act were 3% on income above $800 and 5% on income of individuals living outside the U.S.

The Tax Act of 1862 was passed and signed by President Lincoln July 1 1862. The rates were 3% on income above $600 and 5% on income above $10,000. The rent or rental value of your home could be deducted from income in determining the tax liability. The Commissioner of Revenue stated "The people of this country have accepted it with cheerfulness, to meet a temporary exigency, and it has excited no serious complaint in its administration." This acceptance was primarily due to the need for revenue to finance the Civil War.

Although the people cheerfully accepted the tax, compliance was not high. Figures released after the Civil War indicated that 276,661 people actually filed tax returns in 1870 (the year of the highest returns filed) when the country's population was approximately 38 million.

The Tax Act of 1864 was passed to raise additional revenue to support the Civil War.

Senator Garret Davis, in discussing the guiding principle of taxation, stated "a recognition of the idea that taxes shall be paid according to the abilities of a person to pay."

Taxes rates for the Tax Act of 1864 were 5% for income between $600 and $5000; 7.5% for income between $5001 and $10,000; 10% on income above $10,000. The deduction for rent or rental value was limited to $200. A deduction for repairs was allowed.

With the end of the Civil War the public's accepted cheerfulness with regard to taxation waned. The Tax Act of 1864 was modified after the war. The rates were changed to a flat 5 percent with the exemption amount raised to $1,000. Several attempts to make the tax permanent were tried but by 1869 " no businessman could pass the day without suffering from those burdens" The Times. From 1870 to 1872 the rate was a flat 2.5 percent and the exemption amount was raised to $2,000.

The tax was repealed in 1872 and in its place was installed significant tariff restrictions that served as the major revenue source for the United States until 1913. In 1913 the 16th Amendment was passed, which allowed Congress authority to tax the citizenry on income from whatever source derived.

It should be noted that the Tax Act of 1864 was challenged several times. The Supreme Court unanimously supported the tax. After the war the tax was declared unconstitutional by the same court because it represented direct taxation on the citizenry which was not allowed under the constitution.

 

[Kumquat]

TAX HISTORY CHRONOLOGY

EGYPT

During the various reins of the Egyptian Pharaohs tax collectors were known as scribes. During one period the scribes imposed a tax on cooking oil. To insure that citizens were not avoiding the cooking oil tax scribes would audit households to insure that appropriate amounts of cooking oil were consumed and that citizens were not using leavings generated by other cooking processes as a substitute for the taxed oil.

GREECE1

In times of war the Athenians imposed a tax referred to as eisphora. No one was exempt from the tax which was used to pay for special wartime expenditures. The Greeks are one of the few societies that were able to rescind the tax once the emergency was over. When additional resources were gained by the war effort the resources were used to refund the tax.

Athenians imposed a monthly poll tax on foreigners, people who did not have both an Athenian Mother and Father, of one drachma for men and a half drachma for women. The tax was referred to as metoikion

ROMAN EMPIRE

The earliest taxes in Rome were customs duties on imports and exports called portoria.1

Caesar Augustus was consider by many to be the most brilliant tax strategist of the Roman Empire. During his reign as "First Citizen" the publicani were virtually eliminated as tax collectors for the central government. During this period cities were given the responsibility for collecting taxes. Caesar Augustus instituted an inheritance tax to provide retirement funds for the military. The tax was 5 percent on all inheritances except gifts to children and spouses. The English and Dutch referred to the inheritance tax of Augustus in developing their own inheritance taxes.

During the time of Julius Caesar a 1 percent sales tax was imposed. During the time of Caesar Augustus the sales tax was 4 percent for slaves and 1 percent for everything else.1

Saint Matthew was a publican (tax collector) from Capernaum during Caesar Augustus reign. He was not of the old publicani but hired by the local government to collect taxes.

In 60 A.D. Boadicea, queen of East Anglia led a revolt that can be attributed to corrupt tax collectors in the British Isles. Her revolt allegedly killed all Roman soldiers within 100 miles; seized London; and it is said that over 80,000 people were killed during the revolt. The Queen was able to raise an army of 230,000. The revolt was crushed by Emperor Nero and resulted in the appointment of new administrators for the British Isles.1

GREAT BRITAIN

The first tax assessed in England was during occupation by the Roman Empire.

Lady Godiva
Lady Godiva was an Anglo-Saxon woman who lived in England during the 11th century. According to legend, Lady Godiva's husband Leofric, Earl of Mercia, promised to reduce the high taxes he levied on the residents of Coventry when she agreed to ride naked through the streets of the town.

When Rome fell, the Saxon kings imposed taxes, referred to as Danegeld, on land and property. The kings also imposed substantial customs duties.

The 100 years War (the conflict between England and France) began in 1337 and ended in 1453. One of the key factors that renewed fighting in 1369 was the rebellion of the nobles of Aquitaine over the oppressive tax policies of Edward, The Black Prince.

Taxes during 14th century were very progressive; The 1377 Poll tax noted that the tax on the Duke of Lancaster was 520 times the tax on the common peasant.

Under the earliest taxing schemes an income tax was imposed on the wealthy, office holders, and the clergy. A tax on movable property was imposed on merchants. The poor paid little or no taxes.

Charles I was ultimately charged with treason and beheaded. However, his problems with Parliament came about because of a disagreement in 1629 about the rights of taxation afforded the King and the rights of taxation afforded the Parliament.

The King's Writ stated that individuals should be taxed according to status and means. Hence the idea of a progressive tax on those with the ability to pay was developed very early.

Other prominent taxes imposed during this period were taxes on land and various excise taxes. To pay for the army commanded by Oliver Cromwell, Parliament, in 1643, imposed excise taxes on essential commodities (grain, meat, etc.). The taxes imposed by Parliament extracted even more funds than taxes imposed by Charles I, especially from the poor. The excise tax was very regressive, increasing the tax on the poor so much that the Smithfield riots occurred in 1647. The riots occurred because the new taxes lowered rural laborers ability to buy wheat to the point where a family of four would starve. In addition to the excise tax, the common lands used for hunting by the peasant class were enclosed and peasant hunting was banned (hooray for Robin Hood).

A precursor to the modern income tax we know today was invented by the British in 1800 to finance their engagement in the war with Napoleon. The tax was repealed in 1816 and opponents of the tax, who thought it should only be used to finance wars, wanted all records of the tax destroyed along with its repeal. Records were publicly burned by the Chancellor of the Exchequer but copies were retained in the basement of the tax court.4

COLONIAL AMERICA
Colonists were paying taxes under the Molasses Act which was modified in 1764 to include import duties on foreign molasses, sugar, wine and other commodities. The new act was known as the Sugar Act.
Because the Sugar Act did not raise substantial revenue amounts, the Stamp Act was added in 1765. The Stamp Act imposed a direct tax on all newspapers printed in the colonies and most commercial and legal documents.

POST-REVOLUTION AMERICA
In 1794 Settlers west of the Alleghenies, in opposition to Alexander Hamilton's excise tax of 1791, started what is now known as the "Whiskey Rebellion" The excise tax was considered discriminatory and the settlers rioted against the tax collectors . President Washington eventually sent troops to quell the riots. Although two settlers were eventually convicted of treason, the President granted each a pardon.
In 1798 Congress enacted the Federal Property Tax to pay for the expansion of the Army and Navy in the event of possible war with France. In the same year, John Fries began what is referred to as the "Fries Rebellion," in opposition to the new tax. No one was injured or killed in the insurrection and Fries was arrested for treason but eventually pardoned by President Adams in 1800. Surprisingly, Fries was the leader of a militia unit called out to suppress the "Whiskey Rebellion."2
The first income tax suggested in the United States was during the War of 1812. The tax was based on the British Tax Act of 1798 and applied progressive rates to income. The rates were .08% on income above £60 and 10 percent on income above £200. The tax was developed in 1814 but was never imposed because the treaty of Ghent was signed in 1815 ending hostilities and the need for additional revenue.

The Tax Act of 1861 proposed that "there shall be levied, collected, and paid, upon annual income of every person residing in the U.S. whether derived from any kind of property, or from any professional trade, employment, or vocation carried on in the United States or elsewhere, or from any source whatever.

The 1861 Tax Act was passed but never put in force. Rates under the Act were 3% on income above $800 and 5% on income of individuals living outside the U.S.

The Tax Act of 1862 was passed and signed by President Lincoln July 1 1862. The rates were 3% on income above $600 and 5% on income above $10,000. The rent or rental value of your home could be deducted from income in determining the tax liability. The Commissioner of Revenue stated "The people of this country have accepted it with cheerfulness, to meet a temporary exigency, and it has excited no serious complaint in its administration." This acceptance was primarily due to the need for revenue to finance the Civil War.

Although the people cheerfully accepted the tax, compliance was not high. Figures released after the Civil War indicated that 276,661 people actually filed tax returns in 1870 (the year of the highest returns filed) when the country's population was approximately 38 million.

The Tax Act of 1864 was passed to raise additional revenue to support the Civil War.

Senator Garret Davis, in discussing the guiding principle of taxation, stated "a recognition of the idea that taxes shall be paid according to the abilities of a person to pay."

Taxes rates for the Tax Act of 1864 were 5% for income between $600 and $5000; 7.5% for income between $5001 and $10,000; 10% on income above $10,000. The deduction for rent or rental value was limited to $200. A deduction for repairs was allowed.

With the end of the Civil War the public's accepted cheerfulness with regard to taxation waned. The Tax Act of 1864 was modified after the war. The rates were changed to a flat 5 percent with the exemption amount raised to $1,000. Several attempts to make the tax permanent were tried but by 1869 " no businessman could pass the day without suffering from those burdens" The Times. From 1870 to 1872 the rate was a flat 2.5 percent and the exemption amount was raised to $2,000.

The tax was repealed in 1872 and in its place was installed significant tariff restrictions that served as the major revenue source for the United States until 1913. In 1913 the 16th Amendment was passed, which allowed Congress authority to tax the citizenry on income from whatever source derived.

It should be noted that the Tax Act of 1864 was challenged several times. The Supreme Court unanimously supported the tax. After the war the tax was declared unconstitutional by the same court because it represented direct taxation on the citizenry which was not allowed under the constitution.

Interesting. Not sure the 1377 Poll Tax was that progressive though was it? Wat Tyler and others had a few stern words on that to say. Or have I got my history wrong?

 

[Machiavelli]

Yes a lot of things could do with improving but they would not exist at all without taxation.

Agreed, they would not exist without taxation. It would also be impossible to improve -- or even repair -- them without taxation.

 

[Weststander]

How dare you bring facts into the argument, that's the last thing our Tory overlords want!

Why Party politicise this against the 'Tories'? Big business, multi nationals and the rich all did extremely well (relative to middle England and the poor) under the previous regime of Blair, Balls and Brown.

 

[Machiavelli]

Interesting. Not sure the 1377 Poll Tax was that progressive though was it? Wat Tyler and others had a few stern words on that to say. Or have I got my history wrong?

No, your history is good.

 

[Kumquat]

Why Party politicise this against the 'Tories'? Big business, multi nationals and the rich all did extremely well (relative to middle England and the poor) under the previous regime of Blair, Balls and Brown.

That is of course true. They were Thatcherites though ultimately when it came to big business. Arguably more culpable than the current Government but nowhere near as culpable as the Thatcher Government for promoting business above society and the poor.

 

[drew]

Mental age: 11?

Don't do yourself down, surely you are older than that!

 

[Machiavelli]

Why Party politicise this against the 'Tories'? Big business, multi nationals and the rich all did extremely well (relative to middle England and the poor) under the previous regime of Blair, Balls and Brown.

Agreed, they are all neoliberals, and we need to develop a different sort of politics to neoliberalism.

 

[Hugh'sDad]

Does this mean that the only option on NSC is to be a Mail reader or an empiricist. Rearrange this phrase: strength me give.

I really wouldn't have drawn that conclusion, based on the previous evidence.
calm down dear, as for a tonic for strength reasons, try a bottle of stout - it worked for granny.

 

[Machiavelli]

I really wouldn't have drawn that conclusion, based on the previous evidence.
calm down dear, as for a tonic for strength reasons, try a bottle of stout - it worked for granny.

I actually have a bottle of stout, which I can empirically observe from where I'm sitting, but if I was elsewhere I'd still know it was there. Not drinking it now though. On the wine.

 

[Hugh'sDad]

I actually have a bottle of stout, which I can empirically observe from where I'm sitting, but if I was elsewhere I'd still know it was there. Not drinking it now though. On the wine.

..
Old news - I'd heard it through the grapevine

 

[Gullys Cats]

Where's Robin Hood when you need him!

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

That is of course true. They were Thatcherites though ultimately when it came to big business. Arguably more culpable than the current Government but nowhere near as culpable as the Thatcher Government for promoting business above society and the poor.

I prefer to call all of them neo-liberals in the economic sense. The neo-liberal economic policies of successive governments since 1979 is the reason why the country is in the financial mess it's in today.

 

[Kumquat]

I prefer to call all of them neo-liberals in the economic sense. The neo-liberal economic policies of successive governments since 1979 is the reason why the country is in the financial mess it's in today.

I think that is a very good summary.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Where's Robin Hood when you need him!

Number 11 Downing Street , the strategy however is to rob the poor and feed the rich.