Belittling the achievement of Bobby Moore

[keaton]

Who honestly gives a f***?

Rio's got twice as many as Jack Charlton should we stop him from playing now?

 

[Les Biehn]

Does anyone else think if Beckham had a brain he would make a great holding player. Amazing passer of the ball and can tackle when not charging around like a plum.

 

[Knotty]

Does anyone else think if Beckham had a brain he would make a great holding player. Amazing passer of the ball and can tackle when not charging around like a plum.

I'm a great admirer of Becks but can't see his tackling being up to was is needed for that job.

 

[alan partridge]

it's all going well for NS Herald in this thread so far

I know, I can't even be bothered to disagree with him it's been done so many times now.

 

[Pavilionaire]

1. Beckham is worth his place in the squad on merit.
2. He makes himself available to England WITHOUT FAIL, even if it means only for 10-15 minutes in a match.

The guy has 3 young kids and lives on the other side of the world. Many players would have retired on losing the captaincy or moving to the States, so I admire his loyalty. I bet George Burley or John Toshack wish they had a Beckham to call upon and inspire the rest of the squad.

The reality is the international team plays more matches than yesteryear and player longevity has increased, therefore it is inevitable Bobby Moore's outfield record was going to go.

Indeed, it is more than likely Ferdinand, Terry, Ashley Cole, Walcott, Gerrard and Rooney could all hit 100+ caps. I don't think this makes Moore's achievments any less special because if he'd have played today he's have ended on 130+ caps.

 

[NS Herald]

I know, I can't even be bothered to disagree with him it's been done so many times now.

Well I'm glad everyone's so pleased and I just wonder if it has anything to do with the fact the team is doing so well 'without' him in the starting 11.

His substitution last night was a complete waste of time coming so late in a game that was dead and burried. If anything it upset the balance of the team as SWP had to go to the left which is not why he was brought on.

I am not condeming Beckham for what he has done in the past and was a great admirer and more than many appreciated the effort he put in.

I am not saying he doesn't put the effort in any more and I am not saying he shouldn't play to stop him achieving more caps IF he deserves them. What I am saying is that IMO he is out of his depth now that he's playing 3rd division football, has lost his pace, the team doesn't need him and he is getting caps that are effectively worthless. I think he is being used in this way for other reasons than football and you only have to look at the closing ceremony of the Olympics to see what I mean.

I don't think BM came on in many games just for a few meaninless minutes and therefore his achievment is more worthy.

 

[Rusthall Seagull]

Does anyone else think if Beckham had a brain he would make a great holding player. Amazing passer of the ball and can tackle when not charging around like a plum.

yes, yes I do

 

[Herne Hill Seagull]

So, NS, and this is a genuine question, why do you think Capello is picking him? I don't believe for a second that Capello is picking him for sentimental reasons - just look at the man's demeanour, achievements etc. He's certainly not going to let the FA tell him to pick Beckham for cameos because he's good for business - he'd never have taken the job under those circumstances.

So what gives? Why do you think Capello picks him?

 

[sten_super]

I am not saying he doesn't put the effort in any more and I am not saying he shouldn't play to stop him achieving more caps IF he deserves them. What I am saying is that IMO he is out of his depth now that he's playing 3rd division football, has lost his pace, the team doesn't need him and he is getting caps that are effectively worthless. I think he is being used in this way for other reasons than football and you only have to look at the closing ceremony of the Olympics to see what I mean.

Did you see the impact he had on the Kazakhstan game? I can only assume not because he certainly didn't look anything like out of his depth with his appearance then.

As others have said, I don't know why you are taking caps to be evidence of 'worthiness' or quality. We all know that Bobby Moore was one of (if not the) best players ever to play for England. He doesn't need to hold the record number of caps for an outfield player for us to know that.

 

[Da Man Clay]

So, NS, and this is a genuine question, why do you think Capello is picking him? I don't believe for a second that Capello is picking him for sentimental reasons - just look at the man's demeanour, achievements etc. He's certainly not going to let the FA tell him to pick Beckham for cameos because he's good for business - he'd never have taken the job under those circumstances.

Indeed. Copello couldn't care less about Beckham, showed that when he dropped him from Real Madrid. Just maybe he thinks (like most people on here it would seem) that he can still "do a job"

 

[withdeanwombat]

Bobby Moore was a great player without a doubt.But he,too,had his detractors.

And some on here may remember a game where the commentary went "Bobby Moore,oh so cool.Too cool......one-nil."

Ah,the golden age! And BM's caps total would probably be unbeatable if we had used substitutes so widely then,and played so many games.


Oh,and why didn't Kit Napier ever get in?

 

[Anchorman]

Not just more matches, but more subs get on than in Moores day which inevitably means more caps so don't think the amount of caps makes anyone necessarily better or belittles achievement. Can't argue with Beckhams cap haul up to now but can't see last nights appearance with 3 mins to go was anything other than 'Thanks for coming all this way for us' rather than any of the others that could have come on.

 

[Simster]

What I am saying is that IMO he is out of his depth now that he's playing 3rd division football

But he's not though is he. Darren Huckerby moved to that league and he reckons it's Championship standard but without the strength in depth, and that the top 30 players could play in the Premiership. Sounds to me like he's playing at the wealthiest club in a league not dissimilar to, say, Portugal.

He's definitely not playing against division 3 players week in week out.

 

[andybaha]

It is pointless trying to compare the two just in terms of the number of times they played for England. When I was growing up Bobby Moore was an icon. He was probably the best defender in the world, and in captaining England to a world cup victory he achieved something which has eluded Beckham and numerous other England captains.

However I read yesterday that whilst Beckham won the Premiership six times, Moore never managed it once. Beckham also won the big one in Spain, whilst Moore never ventured out of England. Beckham played over 100 Champions League games, Moore never played a single match in the European cup. It is also worth noting that out of Moore's 108 caps, 25 of them were against Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland in the old home internationals. His last three games for England were meaningless friendlies enabling him at the time to eclipse Billy Wright and Bobby Charlton.

As I say it's pointless comparing the two, because Booby Moore is still my favourite footballer of all time and my enduring image of him will be after the game against Brazil in the 1970 World Cup, when there was only one player that Pele wanted to swop shirts with.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Wise words Andy.

It's interesting to compare this situation with baseball, because drug cheat Barry Bonds overtook legends Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron's home run totals, but their achievments haven't been downgraded by the fans or the commentators.

Re the above posting - I don't see how Moore's caps vs the other home international sides are any less valuable than, say, Kazakhstan, Andorra or Belarus.

 

[The Large One]

Well I'm glad everyone's so pleased and I just wonder if it has anything to do with the fact the team is doing so well 'without' him in the starting 11.

His substitution last night was a complete waste of time coming so late in a game that was dead and burried. If anything it upset the balance of the team as SWP had to go to the left which is not why he was brought on.

I am not condeming Beckham for what he has done in the past and was a great admirer and more than many appreciated the effort he put in.

I am not saying he doesn't put the effort in any more and I am not saying he shouldn't play to stop him achieving more caps IF he deserves them. What I am saying is that IMO he is out of his depth now that he's playing 3rd division football, has lost his pace, the team doesn't need him and he is getting caps that are effectively worthless. I think he is being used in this way for other reasons than football and you only have to look at the closing ceremony of the Olympics to see what I mean.

I don't think BM came on in many games just for a few meaninless minutes and therefore his achievment is more worthy.

This seems to be the England equivalent of worrying about your NSC post count.

 

[maffew]

It is pointless trying to compare the two just in terms of the number of times they played for England. When I was growing up Bobby Moore was an icon. He was probably the best defender in the world, and in captaining England to a world cup victory he achieved something which has eluded Beckham and numerous other England captains.

However I read yesterday that whilst Beckham won the Premiership six times, Moore never managed it once. Beckham also won the big one in Spain, whilst Moore never ventured out of England. Beckham played over 100 Champions League games, Moore never played a single match in the European cup. It is also worth noting that out of Moore's 108 caps, 25 of them were against Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland in the old home internationals. His last three games for England were meaningless friendlies enabling him at the time to eclipse Billy Wright and Bobby Charlton.

As I say it's pointless comparing the two, because Booby Moore is still my favourite footballer of all time and my enduring image of him will be after the game against Brazil in the 1970 World Cup, when there was only one player that Pele wanted to swop shirts with.

very good post sir

 

[jamie-oh]

mohamed al-daeyea, with 186 caps, must get your blood BOILING. cos by virtue of having the most caps ever, he clearly must be the best footballer ever.

well done big mo!

 

[drew]

You can't compare international football in the 1960s/1970s with now.

If nothing else, there are more internationals played, including more World Cup and European Championship qualifying games, so the number of caps is not the benchmark with which to judge Bobby Moore and David Beckham.

After all, Kenny Samson got 86 caps.

Good post. Afterall, if you are only able to judge players past and present on the statistics of how many caps they won then perhaps those people should start following a different sport.

 

[Mr Burns]

The one real negative for me last night was Golden Balls' substitute appearance for yet another meaningless cap on his way to surpassing the legendary Bobby Moore.

3 minutes of complete and utter folly and what really irks me is that he will go down in the record books ahead of a true great, a man who actually won the World Cup and not a Hollywood superstar who is so far past his best it is pathetic.

These f***ing cameo 'guest' appearances are a joke and it is a shame the real reason he is still playing has FA to do with football.

What a f***ing stupid post.

What really irks me is some pratts will find anything to moan about. We've won 4 out of 4 and and people still search for negatives. What's next, the grass aint f***ing green enough for ya.

Beckham was a total waste of time Saturday weren't he:thud::thud:

If he was such a Hollywood Superstar, why the f*** would he turn up for a few minutes here and there. He's a credit to the English team. SUre he's long past being a starter, but he proved Saturday how useful he is.

I would say more of a negative for me would be the defensive cover we have, not if one player passes another ones record. Maybe we should get SHilton to hand back some of his caps so Bobby Moore can be one number in the charts.

Go out and find something proper to moan about