“Be careful what you wish for Brighton fans” - How the football world owes us an apology

[vagabond]

I'm certainly pleased that the "careful what you wish for", pat on the head, know your place narrative from some sources has been rammed back down their throats.

Thank you this is exactly the spirit intended with the OP.

 

[neilbard]

Are you sure about that goals for stat. We only scored 34 goals in total in first Premier League season. Even taken over 33 games, that is only an average of 1

Yes you are right, god knows what I was doing brain freeze, its Av. 1 goals scored and Av. 1.36 conceded over Hughton's first 33 games.

 

[neilbard]

Indeed. The idea of sitting back and defending one goal leads was a frustrating one. And it often fell. The opposition can't score if you have the ball, especially at their corner flag.

It was actually Av. 1 goal scored in Hughton's first 33 games and Av. 1.36 conceded so worse really.

 

[neilbard]

Thank you this is exactly the spirit intended with the OP.

But don't hold your breath for an apology.

 

[vagabond]

So an interesting update to share. It appears someone on Twitter shared my post/article with a certain Mr John Barnes (which I have no problem with) and he tweeted to his followers he still feels it was wrong to sack Chris Hughton.

In fact it looks like this article has caused a bit of an argument on his timeline.

All in good spirit I think. He was a great player, but no more naive to teams outside the top 6 as any pundit.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

As if [MENTION=33329]Jolly Red Giant[/MENTION] wouldn’t have re hashed it if we had dropped out if the division. CH’s biggest non Albion fan on this board would not have been able to resist imo.

Wrong again - the decision is done and dusted

We know what Potter did this season - we have no idea what Hughton could have done because he wasn't here. There are way too many variables.

Hughton could have done better than Potter - he could have got the same result - or he could have got the team relegated - we have no way of knowing.

It would have been a major disappointment if Brighton had been relegated given all the hard work of the last few years since Hughton was first hired and the work done this season - and fortunately that has not happened.

As for the 'non-Ablion' fan jibe - it is astonishing that just because someone holds a different point of view to you that they somehow must not be an Albion fan.

 

[Change at Barnham]

We will never know.
But what was clear is that the majority of supporters were feeling that the brand of football under Hughton was very negative and not entertaining.
It became dutiful to attend rather than being something to look forward to.

Something needed to change.

 

[Icy Gull]

Wrong again - the decision is done and dusted

We know what Potter did this season - we have no idea what Hughton could have done because he wasn't here. There are way too many variables.

Hughton could have done better than Potter - he could have got the same result - or he could have got the team relegated - we have no way of knowing.

It would have been a major disappointment if Brighton had been relegated given all the hard work of the last few years since Hughton was first hired and the work done this season - and fortunately that has not happened.

As for the 'non-Ablion' fan jibe - it is astonishing that just because someone holds a different point of view to you that they somehow must not be an Albion fan.

Last point - my apologies if you are in fact an Albion fan

 

[Weststander]

I wished for a team that played football that I enjoyed watching again, job done. My expectations were no higher and I fully expected to be in a relegation battle. Expectations for next season are lower mid table and occasionally handing out a bit of a thrashing with a genuine PL strike force.

I think Potter can deliver this

This, all day long.

My expectations are always (in a happy way) modest. I don’t bang on about gaining Europa League football after a couple of early season wins, nor boast that we’re going to get a result against ManC. So I don’t get the angry downer many others get, where a world class team/squad turn us over. A win or draw is an unexpected bonus.

 

[neilbard]

We will never know.
But what was clear is that the majority of supporters were feeling that the brand of football under Hughton was very negative and not entertaining.
It became dutiful to attend rather than being something to look forward to.

Something needed to change.

As stated yonks ago, Hughton had lost the players, the back end of last season was dreadful, and sad to see players giving up, Bournemouth and Cardiff was shocking stuff..

 

[Icy Gull]

This, all day long.

My expectations are always (in a happy way) modest. I don’t bang on about gaining Europa League football after a couple of early season wins, nor boast that we’re going to get a result against ManC. So I don’t get the angry downer many others get, where a world class team/squad turn us over. A win or draw is an unexpected bonus.

Our ambitions are modest and we are just grateful to stay in this league

In the future, who knows

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Brighton easing out of relegation problems with games to spare and Corbyn chased from the Labour front benches with his tail between his legs and yet you were back on here literally five minutes after your ban expired.

I wonder why?

Says the person who banned me for actually telling the truth - in fact if anything I was under-estimating the impact of the pandemic in the UK - yet I wa accused of 'scare-mongering'.

As for the LP - well Starmer is playing a blinder - sacking and expelling left-wing activists. You have to give the guy credit - he is doing to the left what Corbyn should have done to the Blairites. What he is not doing is showing that he is any different to Bojo.

Oh - and by the way - I was here all the time - you don't have to log-in to view the forum.

 

[vagabond]

Here’s some excerpts from John Barnes Twitter after it appears someone shared him my post/article.

It looks it set various arguments off (sorry John!) hopefully all in good spirit. As I say, I included his quote, but he’s not alone, most of the football world criticised us as a club and as fans in the Hughton fallout.




https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1279542367108894720?s=21


https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1279542748870332416?s=21


https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1279567699270647808?s=21


https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1279568488248619009?s=2


https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1279668937840570372?s=21


https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1279670524830986241?s=21


Who’s Danny Potter?


https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1279671716705378305?s=21


https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1279679002697965570?s=21

https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1279692945277554688?s=21

https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1279693251029729280?s=21


https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1279702501982380034?s=21



https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1279724811133083649?s=21

https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1279732362763526146?s=21

https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1279739185486794752?s=21

 

[Finchley Seagull]

Okay then - let's have at it

I am not going to go back over each post on this thread because they are mostly a rehash of older stuff from last year and it would be a pain trying to quote everything individually.

But let's take this 'huge vindication' - Bloom made a decision to sack Hughton - it was a risky decision, sacking a proven coach to replace him with an unproven coach with little resume. Hughton had a remit of getting the club to the PL and keeping them there - something which he did incredibly well. Those who supported the sacking of Hughton have little understanding of how difficult it is to keep a team in the PL (just look at Bournemouth this season) - and Hughton did it with few resources and a bottom three budget. I have posted previously of how difficult it is for newly promoted teams to stay in the PL (two are likely to go down this season) - and for teams that don't get relegated the first season to survive for a second season (have a look at where Huddersfield are today). Again, I made this point before - last season Southampton finished just above Brighton - yet had 11 players earning more money that the highest paid player at Brighton.

It takes a minimum of three years to consolidate any club in the PL - and to do it you have to spend a lot of money - and even then there are no guarantees. To keep a club in the PL you have to spend - and spend big - and even then you can get relegated - look at Fulham last season and Villa this season. During the two seasons Hughton managed Brighton in the PL, the club was down near the bottom in terms of spending on players. The weakness of the squad that Hughton had is demonstrated by even a cursory look at the players who Hughton had to rely on and who are now plying their trade in lower level football - Knockhaert, Kayal, Locadia, Andone, Hemed, Bong. At the same time some of the transfers, which Hughton did not have control over, proved to be dodgy at best - Jahanbakhsh, Izquierdo. The job that Hughton did in keeping the club in the PL was quite remarkable - and that is openly recognised across all levels of the PL.

Now Bloom made his decision - and he was entitled to do that as owner of the club. But let's look at the difference with Potter in his first season - three signings - all of whom broke the club record - and a fourth (Mooy) who was effectively another record signing (he would have been if signed last August - and Brighton were lucky to get him on the relative cheap in January). Bloom spent nearly as much last off-season as he had spent in the previous two seasons under Hughton - and he let Potter bring in the players he wanted. On top of that Potter had the advantage of being able to use two very good younger players - Alzate and Connolly (and picked-up a nice signing in Lamptey) that Hughton did not have at his disposal. Effectively, Potter had half of a new team on the pitch for most games. We have no idea what Hughton could have done with those resources at his disposal (and the guff that Hughton wouldn't have changed is nonsense - he had proven that in the past when he had better players available to him).

Now - Potter (and Brighton) started the season very well - with a win away to Watford (over what has proven to be a very poor Watford team) - and all of a sudden people on here were praising Potter and Bloom for appointing him. Then no win in six games and the doom and gloom set in - then Connolly hits the scene against Spurs and Potter is a genius (and Connolly is going to be sold for £50million). Seven points in the next 3 games - Brighton are up to 8th - and Bloom gives Potter a six year contract. At that point opposition coaches start to figure out how Potter sets his team up - inconsistency sets in - some poor loses, a couple of lucky wins (Arsenal should have won) and then from New Year's day to the lockdown in March not a single win. Brighton are pretty much in exactly the same position as they were the previous season under - and the mood on here is dour. The lockdown came at just the right time for the club and for Potter. First game back and a very lucky win at home to Arsenal - and the rest of the relegation competition are going backwards. Watford lose three players - Fraser refuses to play for Bournemouth, the wheels come off at Aston Villa, West Ham struggle and 7 points from three games mean that Brighton are safe and will likely finish in roughly the same position as Hughton did in his first season in the PL with Brighton. The pressure is off now and the Brighton players can enjoy themselves on the pitch - they deserve it - they have put in a good shift this season.

You need luck in football - and Potter has had a fair share of it this season. In my view the teams in the bottom half this season were weaker than last season. Potter has also had much more financial support from Bloom than Hughton ever got - if Bloom was going to justify sacking Hughton and hiring Potter then he had to pump a lot more money into transfers. Is Potter the next big thing in managerial terms - the jury is still out on that one and will be for some time yet - he has managed for less than a season in the PL. Has Bloom been 'hugely vindicated'? - the jury is also out on that one. We have no idea what Hughton could have done with £80million of a transfer budget and a couple of young players coming through - Brighton might have struggled - Hughton may also have done better than Potter - we have no way of predicting this. Bloom's vindication will not be proven for some time yet.

Next season is going to be difficult - and the pandemic has made it even more so - it will be difficult for most clubs, not just Brighton. I suspect that the PL will be stronger next season - Leeds and WBA will likely have more about them than Norwich and Villa - and I wouldn't be surprised to see the third spot taken by Cardiff who have experience of a relegation dog-fight. If Bloom is committed to Potter then this off-season - short as it will be - he needs to remove the purse strings. Brighton need two strikers capable of scoring goals in the PL (Maupay still hasn't hit double digits this season and the next highest scorer is Troussard with 4) - the top 2 goalscorers for Brighton this season have 13 goals between them - the only teams with fewer are Bournemouth, Villa, West Ham and Watford. Bloom needs to spend at least £100 million this off-season - and even if he spends big on strikers there is no guarantee that they will work out. PL standard strikers are very hard to come by. Don't be surprised if next season is a struggle as well - indeed it could be a bigger struggle than this season as every club will strengthen their squads and Potter will not have the advantage of being an unknown quality. Also some Brighton players may be targeted for transfers - wouldn't be surprised to see Duffy leave and Dunk could well be targeted by one of the bigger clubs. The midfield also needs to be bolstered. Saying that - I expect Connolly, Alzate and Lamptey to make progress and it will be interesting to see what White brings to the party.

So if you want to claim that there has been a huge vindication of Bloom for sacking Hughton and hiring Potter - then I suggest that you need to wait a couple of seasons and see where Brighton are at - indeed you could argue that you need to wait out the six years of Potter's contract. It would be great to see Brighton progress, be consolidated as a PL club and, who knows, do a Leicester and win one for the little guys. But it is way to early to make any judgement on the vindication of Bloom's decision to sack Hughton last season - that would be way too arbitrary based on the evidence to date.

We all know your agenda from previous posts so most of what you say can be ignored.

However, I am going to question two of your points. Firstly, we didn't spend as much this summer as the previous two combined. We bought Izquierdo (who was a success until injury), Ryan, Propper, Locadia, Schelotto, Suttner and Gross first season. They cost close to £50 million between them. We then bought Montoya, Bernardo, Bissouma, Jahanbakhsh and Andone before last season. Again probably about £50 million or more. We didn't spend anywhere near £100 million this summer

And we weren't lucky to win at Arsenal, as you seem to be suggesting. The only lucky wins have been Everton and Arsenal home. As compared to a number of games in the first half of the season we were on top and were unlucky not to win.

But all this is irrelevant for you. Potter could win the Premier League and you would still say we should have kept Hughton

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Here’s some excerpts from John Barnes Twitter after it appears someone shared him my post/article.

It looks it set various arguments off (sorry John!) hopefully all in good spirit. As I say, I included his quote, but he’s not alone, most of the football world criticised us as a club and as fans in the Hughton fallout.




https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1279542367108894720?s=21


https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1279542748870332416?s=21


https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1279567699270647808?s=21


https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1279568488248619009?s=2


https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1279668937840570372?s=21


https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1279670524830986241?s=21


Who’s Danny Potter?


https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1279671716705378305?s=21


https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1279679002697965570?s=21

https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1279692945277554688?s=21

https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1279693251029729280?s=21


https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1279702501982380034?s=21



https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1279724811133083649?s=21

https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1279732362763526146?s=21

https://twitter.com/officialbarnesy/status/1279739185486794752?s=21

Why on earth could you be arsed to post all that? And who on earth do you think could be arsed to read all that?

 

[neilbard]

This, all day long.

My expectations are always (in a happy way) modest. I don’t bang on about gaining Europa League football after a couple of early season wins, nor boast that we’re going to get a result against ManC. So I don’t get the angry downer many others get, where a world class team/squad turn us over. A win or draw is an unexpected bonus.

Our ambitions are modest and we are just grateful to stay in this league

In the future, who knows

I kind of agree with you both, but isn't it time we moved away from thinking we can't compete and take a leaf from Bloom's book and aspire to be top ten,

Bloom's ambitions are far from modest and who knows he may be engineering something even greater than promotion to the PL.

The next couple of seasons will be the acid test but I'm confident Potter will come good now he's got a season under his belt and if he doesn't Bloom will take the appropriate action.

 

[Weststander]

Maybe learned a bit from that.

Appointing a manager who took a club from the fourth division in Sweden to advancing from the group stage in the Europa League isnt much of a "gamble" though - it is just a brave, wise and actually fairly "obvious" decision that other clubs didnt have the balls or knowledge to make.

Potter, after his experience with the Swansea yank owners, would have refused to sign for any PL club that didnt have a clear plan and a great owner. If a PL club with some remote, rich but incompetent club owner came for him, he would have refused to once again uproot his family to manage a club where he couldnt trust the owners, the CEO etc.

It was two wise, well-measured decisions made by two wise men and always a lot more likely to be successful than the other way around. And its just begun.

Potter, in making his decision, would I think have been drawn to positives; the Albion are not a sacking club (other than with Hyppia) and the owner/Board do not have a reputation for meddling on the football side.

Along with other strengths such as the Training and Academy complex.

Making us a very attractive proposition for most coaches.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Okay then - let's have at it

I am not going to go back over each post on this thread because they are mostly a rehash of older stuff from last year and it would be a pain trying to quote everything individually.

But let's take this 'huge vindication' - Bloom made a decision to sack Hughton - it was a risky decision, sacking a proven coach to replace him with an unproven coach with little resume. Hughton had a remit of getting the club to the PL and keeping them there - something which he did incredibly well. Those who supported the sacking of Hughton have little understanding of how difficult it is to keep a team in the PL (just look at Bournemouth this season) - and Hughton did it with few resources and a bottom three budget. I have posted previously of how difficult it is for newly promoted teams to stay in the PL (two are likely to go down this season) - and for teams that don't get relegated the first season to survive for a second season (have a look at where Huddersfield are today). Again, I made this point before - last season Southampton finished just above Brighton - yet had 11 players earning more money that the highest paid player at Brighton.

It takes a minimum of three years to consolidate any club in the PL - and to do it you have to spend a lot of money - and even then there are no guarantees. To keep a club in the PL you have to spend - and spend big - and even then you can get relegated - look at Fulham last season and Villa this season. During the two seasons Hughton managed Brighton in the PL, the club was down near the bottom in terms of spending on players. The weakness of the squad that Hughton had is demonstrated by even a cursory look at the players who Hughton had to rely on and who are now plying their trade in lower level football - Knockhaert, Kayal, Locadia, Andone, Hemed, Bong. At the same time some of the transfers, which Hughton did not have control over, proved to be dodgy at best - Jahanbakhsh, Izquierdo. The job that Hughton did in keeping the club in the PL was quite remarkable - and that is openly recognised across all levels of the PL.

Now Bloom made his decision - and he was entitled to do that as owner of the club. But let's look at the difference with Potter in his first season - three signings - all of whom broke the club record - and a fourth (Mooy) who was effectively another record signing (he would have been if signed last August - and Brighton were lucky to get him on the relative cheap in January). Bloom spent nearly as much last off-season as he had spent in the previous two seasons under Hughton - and he let Potter bring in the players he wanted. On top of that Potter had the advantage of being able to use two very good younger players - Alzate and Connolly (and picked-up a nice signing in Lamptey) that Hughton did not have at his disposal. Effectively, Potter had half of a new team on the pitch for most games. We have no idea what Hughton could have done with those resources at his disposal (and the guff that Hughton wouldn't have changed is nonsense - he had proven that in the past when he had better players available to him).

Now - Potter (and Brighton) started the season very well - with a win away to Watford (over what has proven to be a very poor Watford team) - and all of a sudden people on here were praising Potter and Bloom for appointing him. Then no win in six games and the doom and gloom set in - then Connolly hits the scene against Spurs and Potter is a genius (and Connolly is going to be sold for £50million). Seven points in the next 3 games - Brighton are up to 8th - and Bloom gives Potter a six year contract. At that point opposition coaches start to figure out how Potter sets his team up - inconsistency sets in - some poor loses, a couple of lucky wins (Arsenal should have won) and then from New Year's day to the lockdown in March not a single win. Brighton are pretty much in exactly the same position as they were the previous season under - and the mood on here is dour. The lockdown came at just the right time for the club and for Potter. First game back and a very lucky win at home to Arsenal - and the rest of the relegation competition are going backwards. Watford lose three players - Fraser refuses to play for Bournemouth, the wheels come off at Aston Villa, West Ham struggle and 7 points from three games mean that Brighton are safe and will likely finish in roughly the same position as Hughton did in his first season in the PL with Brighton. The pressure is off now and the Brighton players can enjoy themselves on the pitch - they deserve it - they have put in a good shift this season.

You need luck in football - and Potter has had a fair share of it this season. In my view the teams in the bottom half this season were weaker than last season. Potter has also had much more financial support from Bloom than Hughton ever got - if Bloom was going to justify sacking Hughton and hiring Potter then he had to pump a lot more money into transfers. Is Potter the next big thing in managerial terms - the jury is still out on that one and will be for some time yet - he has managed for less than a season in the PL. Has Bloom been 'hugely vindicated'? - the jury is also out on that one. We have no idea what Hughton could have done with £80million of a transfer budget and a couple of young players coming through - Brighton might have struggled - Hughton may also have done better than Potter - we have no way of predicting this. Bloom's vindication will not be proven for some time yet.

Next season is going to be difficult - and the pandemic has made it even more so - it will be difficult for most clubs, not just Brighton. I suspect that the PL will be stronger next season - Leeds and WBA will likely have more about them than Norwich and Villa - and I wouldn't be surprised to see the third spot taken by Cardiff who have experience of a relegation dog-fight. If Bloom is committed to Potter then this off-season - short as it will be - he needs to remove the purse strings. Brighton need two strikers capable of scoring goals in the PL (Maupay still hasn't hit double digits this season and the next highest scorer is Troussard with 4) - the top 2 goalscorers for Brighton this season have 13 goals between them - the only teams with fewer are Bournemouth, Villa, West Ham and Watford. Bloom needs to spend at least £100 million this off-season - and even if he spends big on strikers there is no guarantee that they will work out. PL standard strikers are very hard to come by. Don't be surprised if next season is a struggle as well - indeed it could be a bigger struggle than this season as every club will strengthen their squads and Potter will not have the advantage of being an unknown quality. Also some Brighton players may be targeted for transfers - wouldn't be surprised to see Duffy leave and Dunk could well be targeted by one of the bigger clubs. The midfield also needs to be bolstered. Saying that - I expect Connolly, Alzate and Lamptey to make progress and it will be interesting to see what White brings to the party.

So if you want to claim that there has been a huge vindication of Bloom for sacking Hughton and hiring Potter - then I suggest that you need to wait a couple of seasons and see where Brighton are at - indeed you could argue that you need to wait out the six years of Potter's contract. It would be great to see Brighton progress, be consolidated as a PL club and, who knows, do a Leicester and win one for the little guys. But it is way to early to make any judgement on the vindication of Bloom's decision to sack Hughton last season - that would be way too arbitrary based on the evidence to date.

TL;DR

 

[Originunknown]

So an interesting update to share. It appears someone on Twitter shared my post/article with a certain Mr John Barnes (which I have no problem with) and he tweeted to his followers he still feels it was wrong to sack Chris Hughton.

In fact it looks like this article has caused a bit of an argument on his timeline.

All in good spirit I think. He was a great player, but no more naive to teams outside the top 6 as any pundit.

Many links

 

[neilbard]

Potter, in making his decision, would I think have been drawn to positives; the Albion are not a sacking club (other than with Hyppia) and the owner/Board do not have a reputation for meddling on the football side.

Along with other strengths such as the Training and Academy complex.

Making us a very attractive proposition for most coaches.

Hughton? Poyet?