BBC1 - Immigration - now

[pastafarian]

6 pages and no Buzzer hammer and tongs with DaveInPrague?

In training for the big scrap ?

 

[looney]

They tried to adapt to it by not allowing the children to stay there during lunch and were told by the Muslim community that there was no need to adapt and to allow the children to stay. What inconvenience does it cause to the school/non-muslim children if the Muslim children are fasting? FWIW I'm an Athiest and don't think fasting is a good or normal thing, but they have a right to practice it if they believe it and in this case the problem was entirely cause by the school being stupid. Did you even read the article?

So your saying that non of these children are actually children? All the muslim kids are god poius little muslims with no cheating or trying to play the moral superiority card? and all the little none muslim kids are respectful and well behaved. No mocking the muzzie kids with mmmmmmm this tastes good. Yea that sounds beleivable.

Im an atheist as well and guess what? If any religous observance is at odds with secular education or a system they dont belong in that school. It really is a case of fit in or ef off.

 

[User removed 4]

You do your argument no good at all by posting crap articles like that. It is completely unreasonable that a school says it can't cope with kids fasting.

I thought it was an interesting programme last night. However, there was some very disingenuous stuff being promoted. For example, the French 22 year old woman being paired up with the fairly tepid/half-arsed bloke whose confidence was shot to bits. That woman is living 19 to a house, and is only doing what many carefree 20-something Europeans do. She is not the issue. There are plenty of similar people doing the same thing all over the world. So why the programme makers chose to hold her up as an example to a bloke who clearly isn't the same type of person is completely beyond me.

What is more interesting is the Polish carpenter who saw fit to recruit people from Poland rather than look locally. I have a lot of sympathy for the angry 25 year old Essex geezer who was pissed off that he being undercut by these sort of outfits. And when he confronted the Pole about his policy of recruiting from Poland, he really didn't get a very good answer.

rubbish , of course its reasonable for the school to have this position , dont forget these kids wont even have had breakfast either, or a drink for around eight hours by the time the lunch break comes around.

 

[Czechmate]

What a surprise. I can imagine the bbc meeting in the "natural earth room number 224" which decided the outcome before the programme was made.

They reckoned immigration had no effect on crime I remember when I followed the Brighton player trials at the Old Bailey , I always looked at the other cases the days I looked and 85% of the names were not of English origin , ok perhaps a few were born here but their parents weren't so to me to pay for the court cases and to pay for their prison (if found guilty) it is one massive strain on the tax payer which wouldn't of happened if they or their parents didn't come here to start with .

It was very biased last night as you say , 3 of the people they interviewed had jobs (not sure about the man with the hat as I missed that one) , although a lot of them do work , masses don't .

 

[Deleted member 22389]

They reckoned immigration had no effect on crime I remember when I followed the Brighton player trials at the Old Bailey , I always looked at the other cases the days I looked and 85% of the names were not of English origin , ok perhaps a few were born here but their parents weren't so to me to pay for the court cases and to pay for their prison (if found guilty) it is one massive strain on the tax payer which wouldn't of happened if they or their parents didn't come here to start with .

It was very biased last night as you say , 3 of the people they interviewed had jobs (not sure about the man with the hat as I missed that one) , although a lot of them do work , masses don't .

It didn't really answer any questions. The man with the Hat, I presume you mean the Somalian fellow. He seemed to work within his own community only, I think he said he was claiming benefits. He was certainly not prepared to participate with the women on anything especially when it mean entering her place of worship or handing out food to the homeless. Thumbs up to the women, it was good to get her perspective.

He made it clear, that nobody is going to change him. Sums it up really.

 

[Czechmate]

It didn't really answer any questions. The man with the Hat, I presume you mean the Somalian fellow. He seemed to work within his own community only, I think he said he was claiming benefits. He was certainly not prepared to participate with the women on anything especially when it mean entering her place of worship or handing out food to the homeless. Thumbs up to the women, it was good to get her perspective.

He made it clear, that nobody is going to change him. Sums it up really.

Yes that's the fella , the guy with 8 children I think , nice benefits when they were young ;( and probably got the house too . Agree about the woman . I see they are trying to put through a law stating benefits will be paid up until 4 children , 3 would be better but it's start.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Yes that's the fella , the guy with 8 children I think , nice benefits when they were young ;( and probably got the house too . Agree about the woman . I see they are trying to put through a law stating benefits will be paid up until 4 children , 3 would be better but it's start.

It's these things that have pissed people off. Entitlement to benefits without putting anything back. It's not just migrants, we all know that, it's our own people too, but we don't need people to add to the problem.

We need to get a lot tougher in this country, about who we let in, whether they have the approriate skills and qualifications, and what they can take out of the system. If someone is genuinly working, integrating properly, and has made a considerable contribution to the system in the way of taxes, then nobody would be complaining, trouble is we don't have a strong government that will say NO to the EU on these issues and especially on open borders. The word that is banded out is Reform, which means don't do anything. Well it's nearly been 2 months since the Tories said they would look in to things, and nothing has really happened.

Controlling migration from outside the EU should be easy, the EU cannot tell us what to do here, but still we don't have a handle on this either.

As in the case of the hat man, how has he managed to get so much. Well he arrived in France, which eventually led him to becoming an EU citizen, which obviously means he was free to travel to the UK under the EU rules and claim all the benefits. For me that is just a typical example of what should not be happening, for me this is of no benefit to our system whatsoever, and I am guessing there are hundreds of thousands just like this.

I'm afraid it was the these simple things I talk about above, that have led to the binfest of calling people bigots and all the other stupid labels over the last 10-15 years. It's so simple what needs to happen. I can see it, you can see it, so why doesn't anyone who has the authority get things moving.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

You do your argument no good at all by posting crap articles like that. It is completely unreasonable that a school says it can't cope with kids fasting.

I thought it was an interesting programme last night. However, there was some very disingenuous stuff being promoted. For example, the French 22 year old woman being paired up with the fairly tepid/half-arsed bloke whose confidence was shot to bits. That woman is living 19 to a house, and is only doing what many carefree 20-something Europeans do. She is not the issue. There are plenty of similar people doing the same thing all over the world. So why the programme makers chose to hold her up as an example to a bloke who clearly isn't the same type of person is completely beyond me.

What is more interesting is the Polish carpenter who saw fit to recruit people from Poland rather than look locally. I have a lot of sympathy for the angry 25 year old Essex geezer who was pissed off that he being undercut by these sort of outfits. And when he confronted the Pole about his policy of recruiting from Poland, he really didn't get a very good answer.

Having just this morning watched the programme on iPlayer, I actually thought it was pretty poor. They'd picked a number of British people who weren't very articulate - the Sikh woman being the exception - and so came across as rather stupid.

I agree with you about the Polish guy - really he should try to employ local people first but the person that really wound me up was the guy from Somalia. He demonstrated all the hallmarks of being a religious bigot who really didn't want to integrate.

Stepping back from the purely immigration question, the problem we have is a population growing faster than the infrastructure. That is for three reasons :

1. Immigration
2. Natural population growth
3. Lack of infrastructure investment

What's the solution ? Well we could properly invest in infrastructure but there seems little stomach for either the financial cost or the cost to greenfield sites. We could attempt to limit natural population growth like China does but that brings a whole host of tricky debates around human rights and freedoms.

Finally we could limit immigration - it certainly would seem the easiest way. That doesn't mean immigrants are bad - just that there needs to be limits and criteria. Much like there is for many other countries in the world.

Personally, and possibly against popular opinion, I think we need to tackle all three problems. We need to invest in infrastructure and stop being so sensitive about green sites - let's use say 2% of available green sites to build new towns. Maybe we should bring in a two child limit per couple - i.e. you only replace yourself. And finally we need to limit immigration from anywhere in the world, not just non-EU countries.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Having just this morning watched the programme on iPlayer, I actually thought it was pretty poor. They'd picked a number of British people who weren't very articulate - the Sikh woman being the exception - and so came across as rather stupid.

I agree with you about the Polish guy - really he should try to employ local people first but the person that really wound me up was the guy from Somalia. He demonstrated all the hallmarks of being a religious bigot who really didn't want to integrate.

Stepping back from the purely immigration question, the problem we have is a population growing faster than the infrastructure. That is for three reasons :

1. Immigration
2. Natural population growth
3. Lack of infrastructure investment

What's the solution ? Well we could properly invest in infrastructure but there seems little stomach for either the financial cost or the cost to greenfield sites. We could attempt to limit natural population growth like China does but that brings a whole host of tricky debates around human rights and freedoms.

Finally we could limit immigration - it certainly would seem the easiest way. That doesn't mean immigrants are bad - just that there needs to be limits and criteria. Much like there is for many other countries in the world.

Personally, and possibly against popular opinion, I think we need to tackle all three problems. We need to invest in infrastructure and stop being so sensitive about green sites - let's use say 2% of available green sites to build new towns. Maybe we should bring in a two child limit per couple - i.e. you only replace yourself. And finally we need to limit immigration from anywhere in the world, not just non-EU countries.

Agree with everything you say here.

 

[daveinprague]

6 pages and no Buzzer hammer and tongs with DaveInPrague?

6 pages of the same re-gurgitated crap, with the same people in the thread... is there a point? haha We had this 'debate' last week, the week before, the week before that....

 

[CheeseRolls]

Having just this morning watched the programme on iPlayer, I actually thought it was pretty poor. They'd picked a number of British people who weren't very articulate - the Sikh woman being the exception - and so came across as rather stupid.

I agree with you about the Polish guy - really he should try to employ local people first but the person that really wound me up was the guy from Somalia. He demonstrated all the hallmarks of being a religious bigot who really didn't want to integrate.

Stepping back from the purely immigration question, the problem we have is a population growing faster than the infrastructure. That is for three reasons :

1. Immigration
2. Natural population growth
3. Lack of infrastructure investment

What's the solution ? Well we could properly invest in infrastructure but there seems little stomach for either the financial cost or the cost to greenfield sites. We could attempt to limit natural population growth like China does but that brings a whole host of tricky debates around human rights and freedoms.

Finally we could limit immigration - it certainly would seem the easiest way. That doesn't mean immigrants are bad - just that there needs to be limits and criteria. Much like there is for many other countries in the world.

Personally, and possibly against popular opinion, I think we need to tackle all three problems. We need to invest in infrastructure and stop being so sensitive about green sites - let's use say 2% of available green sites to build new towns. Maybe we should bring in a two child limit per couple - i.e. you only replace yourself. And finally we need to limit immigration from anywhere in the world, not just non-EU countries.

I think the interesting thing about the guy from Somalia and his family was that they were genuine refugees, rather than economic migrants. He seemed so conflicted in may ways, especially his desire to return to Somalia. I think it is fantastic that we are able to give people like this an opportunity to LIVE. His choice seemed to be to come here and have a life and not necessarily a choice to come here for a better life.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I think the interesting thing about the guy from Somalia and his family was that they were genuine refugees, rather than economic migrants. He seemed so conflicted in may ways, especially his desire to return to Somalia. I think it is fantastic that we are able to give people like this an opportunity to LIVE. His choice seemed to be to come here and have a life and not necessarily a choice to come here for a better life.

He lived in France before that I think which is why he was able to come to the UK under EU rules. Why didn't he stay in France because honestly anything is better than where they originally came from.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I think the interesting thing about the guy from Somalia and his family was that they were genuine refugees, rather than economic migrants. He seemed so conflicted in may ways, especially his desire to return to Somalia. I think it is fantastic that we are able to give people like this an opportunity to LIVE. His choice seemed to be to come here and have a life and not necessarily a choice to come here for a better life.

I agree they were genuine refugees ( and putting aside the fact he was originally safe in France ) the thing that wound me up was his "I won't step in a Sikh temple and I won't hand out food to the homeless because it was organised by Sikhs" attitude. I wonder if he'd object if I'd have refused to speak to the woman in his surgery asking for help because she was dressed in that ridiculous head to foot gard ?

 

[El Presidente]

He lived in France before that I think which is why he was able to come to the UK under EU rules. Why didn't he stay in France because honestly anything is better than where they originally came from.

Except LUTON