[Other Sport] BBC Sports Personality 2023

[DJ NOBO]

From their own site:

"The BBC Sports Personality of the Year is a ceremony to honour the greatest British sporting achievements of the past 12 months"

Pretty straight forward.

As a definition of the event, I would agree.
As addressing to what extent the main award is about personality trait and what extent it as about outright sporting achievement, I’m none the wiser.
Take Andy Murray. I’m a massive Murray fan. He achieved something amazing in 2013. Personally I love his dry sense of humour, but I believe many people see him as being a bore. No personality.
Should he have won it?
If the title was “high achiever”, then sure. but personality? Not in many people’s eyes.
If you like spoty then great but don’t try and argue thAt it’s clear what the title of the main award is rewarding. It is obviously not clear.

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

As a definition of the event, I would agree.
As addressing to what extent the main award is about personality trait and what extent it as about outright sporting achievement, I’m none the wiser.
Take Andy Murray. I’m a massive Murray fan. He achieved something amazing in 2013. Personally I love his dry sense of humour, but I believe many people see him as being a bore. No personality.
Should he have won it?
If the title was “high achiever”, then sure. but personality? Not in many people’s eyes.

Well presumably enough people voted for him to win it, who either like his personality (I think he's great for what it's worth), or at least don't find him so objectionable that they were willing to vote for him.
It's a public vote. You can vote for anybody on the list you want to. I don't really see any cause for confusion.

 

[Arthur]

Team of the year - Man City
Coach of the year - Pep
World Sports Star of the Year - Haaland

Terrible how they ignored Man City by giving them the other three major awards

WHAT? So the greatest achievement in the history of sport as it is perceived by some on here and the judges who put the short list together and they didn't even win the team of year despite having half the field in the main event!?! That makes it even more of a joke. Likewise not winning manager of the year.

Why not? Did I get it spot on?

No you couldn't be further from the truth if you tried.

Rather than simply saying they are from sports you don't know, you've doubled down on the selections being 'woke' .

So I ask again, if the choices for TOTP were people you didn't know, would that also be 'Woke'? I guess if the people you didn't recognise were from certain backgrounds, you wouldn't call it woke....

Of course not. The hit parade has been full of shit for as long as I can remember. But if I don't put myself in a position to consume that shit it's no wonder I don't know who they are. The same applies for womens football.

Or, as I ssuspect, and is usually case, you've wheeled out the all-powerful 'W' and it is then easily torn to bits as being the lazy, classic response people now use when they don't like something?

Who is tearing it to bits? Certainly not you. You've resorted to suggesting I only listen to music performed by white men. If that is tearing me to bits then I better check myself into the quacks to get sewn back up.

Do you live in a cave, seriously?

No, before last week genuinely had never heard of the woman. Or several of the others in the list for that matter.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I wonder how much angst there was in 1962 at 1st, 2nd & 3rd in SPOTY all being women? The winner, sprinter Dorothy Hyman did not win an international title that year, though her domestic races would have been shown on BBC.

In 1958 a 17 year old Scottish swimmer called Ian Black beat Bobby Charlton and Nat Lofthouse - the same year of the Munich air crash and Lofthouse finally winning the FA Cup. The 1958 Empire Games would have been on BBC more though.

Princess Anne finished ahead of George Best and Barry John in 1971 - George Best was George Best and Wales won the Grand Slam that year and The Lions won a series in New Zealand for the first and only time.

Even the first year of SPOTY in 1954, Chris Chataway won it ahead of Roger Bannister - Bannister may have won gold in the European 1500m and famously broke the 4 minute mile, but Chataway beat the Soviet who beat him to the 5000m gold in the European final at a meeting at White City and broke the world record and it was televised on BBC.

The winner is the one that catches the public imagination. That's all. Twas ever thus.

 

[Wozza]

Do you think personal traits, like humour for example , and outright sporting achievement fit neatly into one package?
I would say they are completely different. Hence it’s a confusing title.

In this context, "personality" just means "person".

Consider it, "Most-popular sports person of the year".

Not that hard really?

 

[DJ NOBO]

Well presumably enough people voted for him to win it, who either like his personality (I think he's great for what it's worth), or at least don't find him so objectionable that they were willing to vote for him.
It's a public vote. You can vote for anybody on the list you want to. I don't really see any cause for confusion.

Because having a personality and winning are two different things.

Maybe once you and I have sorted out Sussex cricket we can come back to this one

 

[Brovion]

Funnily enough you didn't manage to name a woman in the best winners (maybe Paula Radcliffe, Kelly Holmes,) but did mention Gazza and David Beckham.

Gazza was for doing well for England up to a semi final at a WC.
Beckham was for beating Greece.....

Agreed. I think it was earlier in this thread that I made the point the Gascoigne won it in 1990 for ....... what precisely? Getting booked? Bursting into tears? Wearing fake boobs on the celebratory bus tour? Earps is a WAY more deserving winner than he was.

For balance I should say that I'd never heard of the tennis player. Without putting any thinking effort in the only tennis players I know is Andy Murray. This isn't because I'm unwoke gammon, but because I have less than zero interest in tennis and hate the whole 'strawberries and cream' middle class vibe it has in Britain.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Of course not. The hit parade has been full of shit for as long as I can remember. But if I don't put myself in a position to consume that shit it's no wonder I don't know who they are. The same applies for womens football.

So her selection wasn't "woke" (as you originally said) then? It's just you don't consume it and don't know who she is.

The same could be said for the other nominees you didn't know, as you don't consume those sports.

So instead of using the term 'woke' you actually wanted to say "I don't know who these people are despite their sporting achievements".

Glad we got there.

 

[hart's shirt]

Some wide ranging opinions on here about last night's SPOTY and surrounding matters. With that in mind, I thought that I'd do a little amateur analysis on the popularity of the Earps win from BBC Sport's live text feed last night.

The posts are from 21.03 onwards on https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/sports-personality/67726239

Upvotes v Downvotes
21:03 - 2,664 v 1,630
21:05 - 963 v 795
21:08 - 380 v 506
21:11 - 533 v 513
21:15 - 773 v 597
21:27 - 480 v 418
21:49 - 111 v 111

All of the above posts had more upvotes than downvotes (with the exception of the last which is currently tied), yet a number of other post-result updates including some expressing public opinions had more downvotes.

21:08 - 380 v 507
21:13 - 357 v 488
21:17 - 168 v 228
21:29 - 35 v 114
"In case you missed any of tonight's Sports Personality of the Year awards show (or maybe you just want to watch it all again) you can watch it from start to finish over on BBC iPlayer now."
21:35 - 194 v 212
"Well done Mary Earps great year and best goalkeeper in women’s world football. Also well done to Stuart Broad and thanks for the memories."
21:42 - 193 v 239
"Mary Earps is a class act...Mary Earps winning Sports Personality of the Year is a massive achievement and great for all women in sports. It's really great to see. A standout player for the Lionesses and Manchester United, thoroughly deserved...The absolute right choice. Go Mary! So proud of you and the Lionesses."
21:51 - 111 v 146
"Two years in a row, two Lionesses. Three years in a row of women winning BBC Sports Personality of the Year. Congratulations Mary Earps, you got my vote!"

With the above in mind, a reaction from some might be to assign the vast majority of the downvotes to the caricature of a few women-hating keyboard warrior males frantically hitting the refresh button. The only problem with that position is that the post regarding KJT's 3rd place brought 1,013 upvotes and only 160 downvotes, 6.33 x more upvotes than downvotes. In comparison, Stuart Broad's 2nd place text update saw 1,245 upvotes and 221 downvotes. KJT had 6.33 times more upvotes than downvotes whilst Broad had 5.67 times. So the numbers point to it not being a case of women's sport per se that was being downvoted, but more specifically a reaction to a women's footballer, or even perhaps more generally women's football on the BBC.

Today's live text feed https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/67769665/page/3 shows more of the following.
The posts regarding the Earps win with their current respective upvotes and downvotes:
07:15 114 v 212
08:00 132 v 248
08:06 98 v 208
08:12 142 v 232
08:17 109 v 156
None of the posts have a greater number of upvotes than downvotes.

Quite where this leaves BBC Sport now is open to question.
With no official HYS on SPOTY, are they really willing to take on board all feedback, even the inconvenient parts?

 

[Sid and the Sharknados]

Because having a personality and winning are two different things.

Maybe once you and I have sorted out Sussex cricket we can come back to this one

As a whole, ManOfSussex put it better and more succinctly than I can manage:

The winner is the one that catches the public imagination. That's all. Twas ever thus.

On an individual scale, I've come up with Sid's 3 Step Guide To SPOTY Voting:
1. Have they actually achieved anything?
2. Do I give a shit about what they achieved?
3. Do I find them in some manner thoroughly objectionable?

We look for Yes, Yes, No.

The key point is how much I actually care about the achievement. I'll disqualify somebody on the grounds that they're clearly an arse, but I wouldn't vote for them just because they're a sound guy.

Basically what I'm getting at is that you can vote for whoever you want on whatever grounds you want. The BBC Public Popularity Vote Police aren't going to hunt you down if you vote purely on the basis of who's got the gingerest hair.
It just doesn't matter.

 

[pb21]

No, before last week genuinely had never heard of the woman. Or several of the others in the list for that matter.

Honestly, I find it bizarre how someone can be so insulated from what's going on in the world around them! Are you naturally not an inquisitive or curios person?

Do you not read newspapers (real or internet based), watch TV, listen to the radio, go outside, or talk to people?

 

[Bry Nylon]

Exactactly! My daughter was inspired to cycle by Victoria Pendleton when she watched the Olympics when she was six. My daughter is now 21 and cycling has had a massive inpact in her life, she raced all over Europe and is doing a sports science degree.

That's fantastic! My daughter was inspired and encouraged to give ParkRun a go by her female PE teacher when she was nine. She is now 14, has completed hundreds of ParkRuns, competes at middle distance (800m and 1500m) at District level and trains 3 evenings a week at Cambridge University. (It's always great on 'school cross-country day' when all the boys are boasting about how much they are going to win by and then she beats all of them and they start bitching and complaining that "it's not fair."

 

[Berty23]

Of course it was woke. It's the BBC ticking the boxes it wants to tick. Covers gender, sexuality, race and disability. Whilst ignoring achievements like Manchester City winning the treble. Why no City players on the list?

As I've said on this thread I've no problem with someone from a minority sport winning it. Well done Mary Earps. I've educated myself that she is a footballer, the following day I found out she is a goal keeper and last night when sky sports sent me a push notification to tell me she had won she plays for Manchester United. I still wouldn't know who she was if she was stood on Brighton beach with a seagull on her head. And I expect that would be the same with most of the country.

Its either a sad reflection on British sport or the BBC when a once important institution is relegated to a Tuesday night going against 3 cup quarter finals, the world darts championship and England going bonkers in the crash bang wallop cricket championing people the average person hasn't heard of.


not even going to respond to that.

Genuine question. Which British Man City player should have been on the list for the outstanding sportsperson of the year. Are you really suggesting someone like Kyle Walker?

Which other sporting event this year pulled in 13 million viewers in the U.K.?

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Genuine question. Which British Man City player should have been on the list for the outstanding sportsperson of the year. Are you really suggesting someone like Kyle Walker?

Which other sporting event this year pulled in 13 million viewers in the U.K.?

Oh you WOULD pick Kyle Walker wouldn't you. Classic box ticking.

Why didn't you pick good ol' PHIL FODEN or John Stones.

Woke.

 

[Arthur]

So her selection wasn't "woke" (as you originally said) then? It's just you don't consume it and don't know who she is.

The same could be said for the other nominees you didn't know, as you don't consume those sports.

So instead of using the term 'woke' you actually wanted to say "I don't know who these people are despite their sporting achievements".

Glad we got there.

I said the fact over half the list was made up by women footballers was woke because it suited the BBC's agenda of trying to keep the woke brigade happy.

The fact they didn't win the team of the year completely backs this up.

 

[Wozza]

Some wide ranging opinions on here about last night's SPOTY and surrounding matters. With that in mind, I thought that I'd do a little amateur analysis on the popularity of the Earps win from BBC Sport's live text feed last night.

The posts are from 21.03 onwards on https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/sports-personality/67726239

Upvotes v Downvotes
21:03 - 2,664 v 1,630
21:05 - 963 v 795
21:08 - 380 v 506
21:11 - 533 v 513
21:15 - 773 v 597
21:27 - 480 v 418
21:49 - 111 v 111

All of the above posts had more upvotes than downvotes (with the exception of the last which is currently tied), yet a number of other post-result updates including some expressing public opinions had more downvotes.

21:08 - 380 v 507
21:13 - 357 v 488
21:17 - 168 v 228
21:29 - 35 v 114
"In case you missed any of tonight's Sports Personality of the Year awards show (or maybe you just want to watch it all again) you can watch it from start to finish over on BBC iPlayer now."
21:35 - 194 v 212
"Well done Mary Earps great year and best goalkeeper in women’s world football. Also well done to Stuart Broad and thanks for the memories."
21:42 - 193 v 239
"Mary Earps is a class act...Mary Earps winning Sports Personality of the Year is a massive achievement and great for all women in sports. It's really great to see. A standout player for the Lionesses and Manchester United, thoroughly deserved...The absolute right choice. Go Mary! So proud of you and the Lionesses."
21:51 - 111 v 146
"Two years in a row, two Lionesses. Three years in a row of women winning BBC Sports Personality of the Year. Congratulations Mary Earps, you got my vote!"

With the above in mind, a reaction from some might be to assign the vast majority of the downvotes to the caricature of a few women-hating keyboard warrior males frantically hitting the refresh button. The only problem with that position is that the post regarding KJT's 3rd place brought 1,013 upvotes and only 160 downvotes, 6.33 x more upvotes than downvotes. In comparison, Stuart Broad's 2nd place text update saw 1,245 upvotes and 221 downvotes. KJT had 6.33 times more upvotes than downvotes whilst Broad had 5.67 times. So the numbers point to it not being a case of women's sport per se that was being downvoted, but more specifically a reaction to a women's footballer, or even perhaps more generally women's football on the BBC.

Today's live text feed https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/67769665/page/3 shows more of the following.
The posts regarding the Earps win with their current respective upvotes and downvotes:
07:15 114 v 212
08:00 132 v 248
08:06 98 v 208
08:12 142 v 232
08:17 109 v 156
None of the posts have a greater number of upvotes than downvotes.

Quite where this leaves BBC Sport now is open to question.
With no official HYS on SPOTY, are they really willing to take on board all feedback, even the inconvenient parts?

Out of interest, are you on Facebook.

And have you heard of Dull Men's Club?

 

[DJ NOBO]

Honestly, I find it bizarre how someone can be so insulated from what's going on in the world around them! Are you naturally not an inquisitive or curios person?

Do you not read newspapers (real or internet based), watch TV, listen to the radio, go outside, or talk to people?

Do you think she’s a household name?
I'm not trying to be provactive btw. It’s a genuine question.

 

[Giraffe]

Very low key this year wasn't it. Completely passed me by until I saw who had won this morning. Has it had it's day? Surprised Stuart Broad didn't get it.

 

[Arthur]

Genuine question. Which British Man City player should have been on the list for the outstanding sportsperson of the year. Are you really suggesting someone like Kyle Walker?

Seeing as Frankie Detori made the list year why wasn't Haarland on it?

But seeing as it's supposed to be a British sportsperson. Jack Grealish has had a good year so has Phil Foden and John Stones. Not one made the list.

Which other sporting event this year pulled in 13 million viewers in the U.K.?

I'm assuming that is how many people watched the girls final? Where are those 13 million people now? How many of them are watching the women game?

I expect 13 million people watched the Strictly final. That doesn't make ballroom dancing popular aside from that one event.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

They may have been ’political’ but both stories were sadly true. Those who love to howl and protest about females and black people should hear more about their struggle and achievements.
Fatima’s story, I had heard before in the South African ‘Jungle’ of being abandoned, abused and sexually abused in care, until she was finally adopted when she was 14.
Desmond telling us that black kids couldn’t join cricket clubs in the 60s. Considering the recent race row in Yorkshire cricket, I thought it was relevant.

Totally agree. Both were enormously relevant and stories that deserved to be told. Desmond’s “we had to form our own teams in the 1960s because the white teams wouldn’t have us” did not surprise us in this household.
And mrs DiS having spent a lifetime in education and working with young people means we are well aware of the Children in Care” bit. My family spent several lifetimes of involvement in the National Children’s home in Harpenden - my grandfather and a great aunt working for them full-time for years, and my mother worked for them until she married and moved away. and I have long followed and supported what they morphed into - Action for Children - in the present day