[Politics] BBC coverage of boat migrants

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

The other night on the news, they showed a french police officer just walk up to a boat as they were loading it, and ram a breadknife into it. The boat deflated, and everyone sloped off before it had gone 10 yards. Job done.

Don't need much equipment if they employ that tactic on the beaches.

Rightly or wrongly, that is literally all it would take

 

[beorhthelm]

It’s the police federation’s figures.

Currently a £100 discrepancy in baton costs between forces and literally thousands different for high performance cars.

Police forces 'spending £120 per baton and £630 per helmet', claim Labour

A freedom of information request submitted by Labour found that it costs £100 more to buy a police baton in one area than in other areas.

uk.news.yahoo.com

it could be better with central purchasing, so all the forces had one price, cut out duplicate approval process and purchasing departments. be honest though, do you think that price would be the higher or lower end? MOD has centralised purchasing so we can learn from that. oh. would central purchasing be suitable for all, or do they have different needs? not conviced there is any performance car on the market for 27k, either thats phoney or they have very different specifcations.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It’s the police federation’s figures.

Currently a £100 discrepancy in baton costs between forces and literally thousands different for high performance cars.

Police forces 'spending £120 per baton and £630 per helmet', claim Labour

A freedom of information request submitted by Labour found that it costs £100 more to buy a police baton in one area than in other areas.

uk.news.yahoo.com

And no doubt the companies are owned by Tory donors, family members, neighbours?

 

[Guinness Boy]

it could be better with central purchasing, so all the forces had one price, cut out duplicate approval process and purchasing departments. be honest though, do you think that price would be the higher or lower end? MOD has centralised purchasing so we can learn from that. oh. would central purchasing be suitable for all, or do they have different needs? not conviced there is any performance car on the market for 27k, either thats phoney or they have very different specifcations.

All you’d have to do would be you set some simple benchmarking and cheapest price rules when you created the procurement process.

In any case Labour have only pledged to spend half the amount claimed.

Seems entirely sensible.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

All you’d have to do would be you set some simple benchmarking and cheapest price rules when you created the procurement process.

In any case Labour have only pledged to spend half the amount claimed.

Seems entirely sensible.

A big drawback to that is that cheapest isn't always best. For example why buy some piece of equipment for £300 that will break within 2 years when they can buy one for £350 that will last a decade or longer?

The biggest issue is that there is a lack of flexibility when it comes to public procurement, they are stuck with rigid rules that prevent shopping around for the best deals as they are limited to dealing with approved suppliers only.

A couple of examples from my time when working in the public sector (not going to reveal where i was working so keeping it vague deliberately)
1) an item was required and the official suppliers charged £80 for it, when it could be brought from other places, like Amazon, for £50
2) a department required a large number of the same item however they were unable to negotiate any type of bulk discount as the terms of their procurement deal prevented this (and again they couldn't shop around to find the best deal) so had to pay a higher price per unit for them, and also had to pay for delivery (when they could have brought elsewhere for less and got free delivery included)

This all stems from trying to prove that the process is open and honest through a transparent tendering process, and there are no shady deals and back handers from suppliers, etc... (like buyers going to their friends business to buy, or getting a sweetener to use a particular buyer over another - yet there are comments to that affect still on this thread despite their use)

The use of procurement contracts are supposed to make it cheaper, but don't always work that way, especially if the price of that item then falls. The contract doesn't react and you find they are tied into paying a higher price until that contract ends and the next tendering process for it opens

 

[Guinness Boy]

A big drawback to that is that cheapest isn't always best. For example why buy some piece of equipment for £300 that will break within 2 years when they can buy one for £350 that will last a decade or longer?

The biggest issue is that there is a lack of flexibility when it comes to public procurement, they are stuck with rigid rules that prevent shopping around for the best deals as they are limited to dealing with approved suppliers only.

A couple of examples from my time when working in the public sector (not going to reveal where i was working so keeping it vague deliberately)
1) an item was required and the official suppliers charged £80 for it, when it could be brought from other places, like Amazon, for £50
2) a department required a large number of the same item however they were unable to negotiate any type of bulk discount as the terms of their procurement deal prevented this (and again they couldn't shop around to find the best deal) so had to pay a higher price per unit for them, and also had to pay for delivery (when they could have brought elsewhere for less and got free delivery included)

This all stems from trying to prove that the process is open and honest through a transparent tendering process, and there are no shady deals and back handers from suppliers, etc... (like buyers going to their friends business to buy, or getting a sweetener to use a particular buyer over another - yet there are comments to that affect still on this thread despite their use)

The use of procurement contracts are supposed to make it cheaper, but don't always work that way, especially if the price of that item then falls. The contract doesn't react and you find they are tied into paying a higher price until that contract ends and the next tendering process for it opens

I stopped at your first paragraph, as you seem to be suggesting that some police in this country are carrying sticks that won’t hit and high performance cars that won’t drive. Can you tell us which ones?

 

[carlzeiss]

Three arrested over Channel migrant deaths

The men were arrested on suspicion of facilitating illegal immigration and of entering the UK illegally, police said.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Guy Fawkes]

I stopped at your first paragraph, as you seem to be suggesting that some police in this country are carrying sticks that won’t hit and high performance cars that won’t drive. Can you tell us which ones?

- I suggest you read the whole reply.

No mention of the police at all, or their equipment but it was a general reply about the issues with the procurement process, and also to the point about the suggestion to have 'cheapest' price rules in place during procurement
"All you’d have to do would be you set some simple benchmarking and cheapest price rules when you created the procurement process."

 

[Guinness Boy]

- I suggest you read the whole reply.

No mention of the police at all, or their equipment but it was a general reply about the issues with the procurement process, and also to the point about the suggestion to have 'cheapest' price rules in place during procurement
"All you’d have to do would be you set some simple benchmarking and cheapest price rules when you created the procurement process."

And my point was specific to the discrepancies in the police federation FOI figures

I’m pretty sure you can baseline nightsticks.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

And my point was specific to the discrepancies in the police federation FOI figures

I’m pretty sure you can baseline nightsticks.

So several posts refer to procurement however the discussion can't be widened on this and has to stay focused solely on night sticks as it is something that can be used to bash ... the Tories ?

 

[portlock seagull]

Yeah right'o folks from this country cant get on the housing ladder, never mind build more and house refugees.
Now that comment is in no way meant to mean, do not house them, they are not welcome.
However whoever is in power does not have the money to build new houses, especially near bankrupt councils who have sold off most of their assets/land, never mind big housebuilders who I know are slowing down building and holding onto land until the economy picks up to maximise profit.
Building more houses is a whole different kettle of fish.

I know of a certain labour council that is about to finish a development and some in the council/ government have suggested that new properties be allocated to refugees, the back lash and negative feeling this would cause has put any decision on the back burner due to political ramifications.

Problem is they will keep coming, and it can end in two ways regardless of whose in charge of the money: bloodily akin to civil war, and yes don’t you believe it can’t happen in this day and age. Or peaceful assimilation, where their needs are met somehow by those in charge supported by you and I.

My moneys on the former happening, because I have no faith in this species to share enough. People are literally prepared to die to keep more than their fair amount, through sense of entitlement or earned it matters not. We are very selfish as a species. Those with the most give least typically so when it comes to it, they probably deserve to die first in the bloodbath that’s inevitable some day. We just don’t know when yet. I guess when there are several million males only roaming around the UK without a job, no benefits or hope or sense of belonging that’s when it’ll start to reasonate. Until then, let’s all pretend it’s someone else’s problem to fix and not really affecting us.

In other news, a rollerskating duck…

 

[Guy Fawkes]

And my point was specific to the discrepancies in the police federation FOI figures

I’m pretty sure you can baseline nightsticks.

Newsflash - Public sector uses procurement whether it be the Police, MOD or Councils. Each one will use it's own procurement arrangements and they will have put out appeals for companies to tender for those contracts and this will mean that there will be therefore a variation in the price that is paid when comparing them

Central procurement doesn't necessarily get the best deal either, some of the reasons why head been covered in my original reply.

 

[Joey Jo Jo Jr. Shabadoo]

Is this a new feature on the red button?

 

[Guinness Boy]

So several posts refer to procurement however the discussion can't be widened on this and has to stay focused solely on night sticks as it is something that can be used to bash ... the Tories ?

It’s widened a whole lot more from the OP.

The post I replied to was specifically about police funding. If you want to discuss procurement throughout the UK, knock yourself out. I’m not sure it’ll be compulsive reading.

 

[dsr-burnley]

It’s the police federation’s figures.

Currently a £100 discrepancy in baton costs between forces and literally thousands different for high performance cars.

Police forces 'spending £120 per baton and £630 per helmet', claim Labour

A freedom of information request submitted by Labour found that it costs £100 more to buy a police baton in one area than in other areas.

uk.news.yahoo.com

What's the betting the Northamptonshire person gets the national job so that everyone can pay £120 for their big stick.

 

[Me Atome]

Wow those French police really bust a gut to stop that boat leaving today. FFS. This is where the problem lies.

They probably only climbed out of their van because they'd heard that the BBC were there.

I did hear that the Belgians had a different, ie effective, way of policing their coastline, which apparently is why boats do not come from there.

 

[WATFORD zero]

They probably only climbed out of their van because they'd heard that the BBC were there.

I did hear that the Belgians had a different, ie effective, way of policing their coastline, which apparently is why boats do not come from there.

That and the fact that it's over three times as far in a small inflatable

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

A big drawback to that is that cheapest isn't always best. For example why buy some piece of equipment for £300 that will break within 2 years when they can buy one for £350 that will last a decade or longer?

The biggest issue is that there is a lack of flexibility when it comes to public procurement, they are stuck with rigid rules that prevent shopping around for the best deals as they are limited to dealing with approved suppliers only.

A couple of examples from my time when working in the public sector (not going to reveal where i was working so keeping it vague deliberately)
1) an item was required and the official suppliers charged £80 for it, when it could be brought from other places, like Amazon, for £50
2) a department required a large number of the same item however they were unable to negotiate any type of bulk discount as the terms of their procurement deal prevented this (and again they couldn't shop around to find the best deal) so had to pay a higher price per unit for them, and also had to pay for delivery (when they could have brought elsewhere for less and got free delivery included)

This all stems from trying to prove that the process is open and honest through a transparent tendering process, and there are no shady deals and back handers from suppliers, etc... (like buyers going to their friends business to buy, or getting a sweetener to use a particular buyer over another - yet there are comments to that affect still on this thread despite their use)

The use of procurement contracts are supposed to make it cheaper, but don't always work that way, especially if the price of that item then falls. The contract doesn't react and you find they are tied into paying a higher price until that contract ends and the next tendering process for it opens

But if everyone shops around how do we know they are getting the best deal? Ouroboros here I suspect.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The biggest issue is that there is a lack of flexibility

Issue? Surely it’s a requirement for a stick to beat criminals with? No wonder the country has gone to the dogs.

 

[Chicken Run]

Wow those French police really bust a gut to stop that boat leaving today. FFS. This is where the problem lies.

Let’s be fair to the French Police, I’ll assume Kent’s finest wouldn’t be busting a gut if we reverse the direction, would probably be advised to play low key unless the French media rocked up..