Baroness Thatcher - Dead / RIP

[Soulman]

I used to believe that my income tax was wasted on scroungers. However as I've got older I realise this was rubbish. I know a family with a totally disabled 21 year old who are now getting virtually no support and are losing a lot of money this year. They are good people who want to work - and have one modest income. The level of support they get comes from our tax and is now not enough. Some of the people on here need to imagine what would happen if they became ill and hadn't got a good education or didnt inherit any family money. That is ghe situation gor many through no fault of their own. Income tax is essential in any caring society.

I have never moaned in 40 years of tax paying about my dues going towards the disabled, the pensioners or the genuinely sick and needy, or short term unemployed. The fact that Labour made the system easy for the scroungers (vote catching) and let millions into the country whilst the citizens already here could not find employment, means that 1) The genuine cases are not being helped properly.
2) Money is being taken away/not given to cases 1), because too many are riding the system.
So, if you can get people off benefits, NOT by bringing more people into this country.....i mean the people already here....then the money that the new employed will pay in tax, plus the saving of paying out benefits to them.........would/SHOULD benefit the genuine cases mentioned in the first sentence.

 

[Driver8]

what a stupid idea....not everyone against thatcher is a labor supporter - so many on here think it is linear left<---------->right.....hehe.

and as for income tax........do some research instead of watching and reading MSM....

the gov borrows money from central banks AT INTEREST.

much of income tax goes to pay back this interest, thus, going straight to international bnaking families........you wont ever see this in the MSM as the banking families are linked to the giant corps that own the (profit making) media. not to mention £26bn trident nonsense.

keep asleep people - left or right, scroungers, need to work hard, austertity is good, economy is just in a dip....and all the other drivle they throw into your minds.

I think you need to check your facts there as I don't think you have got one right.

The govt borrow by issuing Gilts which are owned by all sorts of institutions including your pension fund if you have one. They don't borrow from high street banks I can assure you. If you are talking about other countries borrowing from the European Central Bank, well that is not really a bank. It's like the Bank of England for European countries and "owned" by those countries own national banks. There are no shady families benefiting from their loans.

 

[soistes]

I have never moaned in 40 years of tax paying about my dues going towards the disabled, the pensioners or the genuinely sick and needy, or short term unemployed. The fact that Labour made the system easy for the scroungers (vote catching) and let millions into the country whilst the citizens already here could not find employment, means that 1) The genuine cases are not being helped properly.

Could you give precise details of how exactly Labour made the system easy for benefit scroungers? To my certain knowledge, right from the off, the post-97 Labour government bent over backwards to tighten up on benefit eligibility, and to introduce so-called "conditionality" into the unemployment benefit (JSA) system, which involved much stricter tests for the unemployed to prove they were looking for work, or face benefit sanctions. Equally they started shifting people off Incapacity Benefit onto the new ESA benefit, which again required quite draconian tests of people's so-called fitness-to-work. The coalition government has continued the move in this direction.

The government which (ironically) made things easier for people to stay on benefits was the Thatcher government, so beloved of many of the posters on here. It is well-documented that during the Thatcher years, desperate to get the unemployment benefit statistics down, the government made it much easier for people to move onto what was then invalidity benefit (especially older males in declining industrial areas) or into "early retirement" so they disappeared from the unemployment statistics -- this was the period in which the numbers on disability-related benefits grew massively, leaving a problem of large numbers of people with years or in some cases decades out of the labour market; a problem which the Blair government tried in its own way to start to get to grips with (by making it considerably tougher for people to remain on benefits if they were capable of work, and work was available)

 

[otk]

One way to get a minute's silence at most football grounds would be to ask for a minute's applause...

 

[franks brother]

Is this the best mass debate in nsc history?

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Is this the best mass debate in nsc history?

Spread over 4 separate threads

 

[otk]

Spread over 4 separate threads

Not surprising, as she was big on division...

 

[ALBION28]

Well a search of Google doesn't back up your statement - she tried to ban teaching and promotion about homosexuality ( incorrectly in my mind ) but no mention of history being banned.

Google is not an oracle, nor is it absolute. I lived it, experienced it, and fought it. You will note how little history is taught in our schools these days due to the structure of the National curriculum started by Thatcher.

 

[Goat lung]

Just a thought , but how many of you very brave grave dancers gave so much as a high five when bin laden was finally executed and as for us all living in the dreadfull thatcher legacy I wonder how many of you mob actually don't own your own homes or cars iPads or sky tv least of all a bha season ticket , no life must be very tough , she ruined the country some of you say , I think you all know deep down that before she came along this country was doomed but hey lets all vote labour at the next election because I think we may just be getting a couple of quid in the bank and the wouldn't be right would it

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Google is not an oracle, nor is it absolute. I lived it, experienced it, and fought it. You will note how little history is taught in our schools these days due to the structure of the National curriculum started by Thatcher.

If a Google search doesn't bring up all the facts at your fingertips or there is no Wikipedia entry , it never happened

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Spread over 4 separate threads

We have a 5th thread

 

[Soulman]

Could you give precise details of how exactly Labour made the system easy for benefit scroungers? To my certain knowledge, right from the off, the post-97 Labour government bent over backwards to tighten up on benefit eligibility, and to introduce so-called "conditionality" into the unemployment benefit (JSA) system, which involved much stricter tests for the unemployed to prove they were looking for work, or face benefit sanctions. Equally they started shifting people off Incapacity Benefit onto the new ESA benefit, which again required quite draconian tests of people's so-called fitness-to-work. The coalition government has continued the move in this direction.

The government which (ironically) made things easier for people to stay on benefits was the Thatcher government, so beloved of many of the posters on here. It is well-documented that during the Thatcher years, desperate to get the unemployment benefit statistics down, the government made it much easier for people to move onto what was then invalidity benefit (especially older males in declining industrial areas) or into "early retirement" so they disappeared from the unemployment statistics -- this was the period in which the numbers on disability-related benefits grew massively, leaving a problem of large numbers of people with years or in some cases decades out of the labour market; a problem which the Blair government tried in its own way to start to get to grips with (by making it considerably tougher for people to remain on benefits if they were capable of work, and work was available)

"Could you give precise details of how exactly Labour made the system easy for benefit scroungers?" Quote

I could go into it, but it is easier to let you read what the actual Labour MP's views on it were.
From a few days ago.
"Labour split puts Ed Miliband on back foot over benefits
Senior MPs admit their party has shortcomings on welfare policy and call for Ed Miliband to do more to prove Labour is "not the Benefits Party".
A number of Labour MPs admitted that the party had been “behind the curve” on tackling the spiralling benefits problem and its leadership had “ducked” the issue too many times.
They urged party members to back plans to reform the welfare state, with one urging people to remember that Labour had been set up for working people, “not as a charity or a social work organisation”.
" Harriet Harman, the party’s deputy leader, admitted that working people felt “resentful” because some benefits claimants were “not pulling their weight” and were being “let off the hook”.
But a number of Labour MPs went even further by acknowledging the party’s past failings on the issue and backing sweeping reforms"

Labour split puts Ed Miliband on back foot over benefits - Telegraph

 

[Goat lung]

A very interesting thread and very uncanny that most of the haters post during the daytime ( working hours) so I guess they either , don't work or , like to post when they should be working , just a passing thought

 

[soistes]

"Could you give precise details of how exactly Labour made the system easy for benefit scroungers?" Quote

I could go into it, but it is easier to let you read what the actual Labour MP's views on it were.
From a few days ago.
"Labour split puts Ed Miliband on back foot over benefits
Senior MPs admit their party has shortcomings on welfare policy and call for Ed Miliband to do more to prove Labour is "not the Benefits Party".
A number of Labour MPs admitted that the party had been “behind the curve” on tackling the spiralling benefits problem and its leadership had “ducked” the issue too many times.
They urged party members to back plans to reform the welfare state, with one urging people to remember that Labour had been set up for working people, “not as a charity or a social work organisation”.
" Harriet Harman, the party’s deputy leader, admitted that working people felt “resentful” because some benefits claimants were “not pulling their weight” and were being “let off the hook”.
But a number of Labour MPs went even further by acknowledging the party’s past failings on the issue and backing sweeping reforms"

Labour split puts Ed Miliband on back foot over benefits - Telegraph

In my view, if they campaigned on their actual record rather than being put into a defensive fluster by the misleading picture painted by the Tory press, Labour would be in a stronger position than they are.
All your quote shows is Labour reacting to negative media-driven perceptions of this topic. It doesn't show that those perceptions are accurate or rooted in hard evidence.
Plus ca change.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

"Could you give precise details of how exactly Labour made the system easy for benefit scroungers?" Quote

I could go into it, but it is easier to let you read what the actual Labour MP's views on it were.
From a few days ago.
"Labour split puts Ed Miliband on back foot over benefits
Senior MPs admit their party has shortcomings on welfare policy and call for Ed Miliband to do more to prove Labour is "not the Benefits Party".
A number of Labour MPs admitted that the party had been “behind the curve” on tackling the spiralling benefits problem and its leadership had “ducked” the issue too many times.
They urged party members to back plans to reform the welfare state, with one urging people to remember that Labour had been set up for working people, “not as a charity or a social work organisation”.
" Harriet Harman, the party’s deputy leader, admitted that working people felt “resentful” because some benefits claimants were “not pulling their weight” and were being “let off the hook”.
But a number of Labour MPs went even further by acknowledging the party’s past failings on the issue and backing sweeping reforms"

Labour split puts Ed Miliband on back foot over benefits - Telegraph

To be honest Labour just carried on with what the Tories had implemented when they were in power. There was no re-alignment to measure unemployment levels correctly by moving claimants back on to JSA from other (more costly) benefits.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

A very interesting thread and very uncanny that most of the haters post during the daytime ( working hours) so I guess they either , don't work or , like to post when they should be working , just a passing thought

Or are posting on a day off or before/after a shift , not everyone works 9 to 5 Monday to Friday.

 

[Soulman]

In my view, if they campaigned on their actual record rather than being put into a defensive fluster by the misleading picture painted by the Tory press, Labour would be in a stronger position than they are.
All your quote shows is Labour reacting to negative media-driven perceptions of this topic. It doesn't show that those perceptions are accurate or rooted in hard evidence.
Plus ca change.

The quotes come from Labour Party MP's, so i would think that their opinion is not driven by the media......if it was the opinion of the media then i could agree with you.

 

[somerset]

There was no re-alignment to measure unemployment levels correctly .......

You guys need to read this article about Blair and the concept of Performancism ( Its a weighty read ),.... but to give it context, this is a 'Left Wing' orientated journal.

http://www.stateofnature.org/?p=5719

 

[soistes]

A very interesting thread and very uncanny that most of the haters post during the daytime ( working hours) so I guess they either , don't work or , like to post when they should be working , just a passing thought

Or alternatively, not everyone works 9-5 in this flexible,deregulated Thatcherite market economy...
I certainly don't, but (just to counter your pathetic stereotyping) I work long hours and very hard.

 

[East Preston Gull]

Having read all these threads you realise how wonderful politics in maggies day was. You had a choice, right wing or left wing. All we have now are extreme socialists on one side and extreme facists on the other. The main three groups in the middle, are cowards who don't want to offend anyone, so actually end up offending everyone!