Baroness Thatcher - Dead / RIP

[Thunder Bolt]

Yes, MT believed that you should not be nannied by the state and rightly ensured that emphasis should be on you finding work. OK it wasn't easy but if you made the effort and got on your bike etc etc. Yes her decisive policies caused great pain especially for workers in failing industries that the country could not afford to prop up. But as is still the case now there was work for those willing to make the effort to go out and find it. I can remember going on a series of national training courses around 1982-84 and mixing with punters from across the UK including many from deprived areas. It dispelled some of the myths of a north / south divide when I saw how many of my peers from the north had ridiculously cheap housing, owned newish cars and were taking foreign holidays while most of us from the south were crippled by huge mortgage payments, many colleagues could not think of owning a property, could barely afford a car (I went without for several years) and certainly didn't have a foreign holiday.

I was a union rep at that time and there was so much emphasis from senior officials at national level on out of date extreme left wing views and creating industrial strife to spite the government and far too little on actually helping the plight of union members. I can remember fellow union members gradually tiring of all the left wing rhetoric yet in our hearts we were natural lefties, but the union's hierarchy seemed so out of touch because their strings were being pulled at national level. The thing that struck me was that if Mrs T was really that unpopular then why didn't old Labour catch the voters on the rebound - but instead New Labour chose to move way to the right.

That's a very good post.

 

[brakespear]

Really, after all she did to smash Red Robbo, Scargill and Foot, she deserves all of our praise.

Just as an aside (and bearing in mind there's still about 13 pages of this to read through) Thatcher didn't take apart Michael Foot. He was a very capable, eloquent politician who was taken apart by the papers.

 

[Questions]

I was very sad to hear of the death of Baroness Thatcher today. The greatest post war leader this country has had.

What I find surprising is, how anyone brought up or living in Brighton or Hove in the late 1980's or early 1990's can vilify her today.

Thatcherism changed peoples lives for the better in so many ways . You cannot have failed in those days to make something of yourself.

She was a genius and gave everyone the chance EVERYONE , to experience wealth . But to do this you had to put the effort in yourself. Whether that meant travelling to the City to work where jobs were plentiful despite your educational or social background. Or working closer to home and making an effort to succeed . The chance was there to make your previous unattainable dreams come true.

Excellant stuff. Comedy Steve watch out.

 

[dingodan]

What a load of crap. Was that written when you were in kindergarten? She said there was no such thing as society, merely individuals and families. She implied you do what you can for yourself and if you want you can do something for those less fortunate. Hardly a christian outlook on life!

Wow. So what is the "Christian outlook on life"?

Sounds like you are saying that the "Christian outlook on life" is not that you can/should chose to help those less fortunate, but rather that you must and we will force you to.

Ok, maybe you don't have faith in people, maybe you think they are inherently selfish, the trouble with your way is that nobody develops generosity of heart by having someone take from them and give to someone else. If anything the selfishness displayed by people today is precisely because generosity of heart is not needed. The government will sort it out, I only need to worry about myself.

I understand where you are coming from with your humanitarian instincts, believe it or not those of us who believe in Liberty also have those instincts. Where we disagree is how best to serve those in need. You say government force leads to a virtuous caring society, I say freedom and responsibility does. But lets not lose sight of the fact that the ends we all seek are the same.

 

[kevtherev]

Wasn't the 3 day week under Heath?

Whoever it was under it was all union driven, as was everything. The unions ran the country. It had to stop and someone had to stop them. I used to think it was fun when I was a kid, searching for the candles every night because there was no electric, or bin bags piling up on the streets and bodies piling up at the undertakers...If mister union man, didn't get his own way, it was down tools and strike until we do...It was a joke and they were the ones always delivering the punchline to the people of Britain...Until Maggie turned the joke on them, then they weren't laughing so loudly. But whinging that she was a life wrecker, with no thought of all the lives they affected, with their own selfish actions.

 

[HAILSHAM SEAGULL]

Maggie is getting buried next week....Harry reckons he can keep her up

 

[Seagull over Canaryland]

Just as an aside (and bearing in mind there's still about 13 pages of this to read through) Thatcher didn't take apart Michael Foot. He was a very capable, eloquent politician who was taken apart by the papers.

Yes Michael Foot was certainly a great politician and a particularly good orator. Sadly his public image was not great and certainly not photogenic in a positive way, unfortunately the media highlighted this. His wearing of a donkey jacket at the Cenotaph Rememberance Day parade comes to mind as one that media had a field day with. We all know that this is a shallow perspective but sadly attitudes were changing. His demise might be regarded as a catalyst for the prevalence on creating 'image', style over substance, spin doctors and soundbites.

 

[Socialist Sid]

We're you around in the 70s? Do you remember 3 day weeks? Power cuts? Winter of discontent? Healey going cap in hand to the IMF? Unions holding the country to ransom? Joe Gormley? Hugh Scanlon? Red Robbo stopping Leyland production over tea breaks?

Jeez - even if you didn't like her, making out out the 70s was some kind of socialist nirvana really takes the biscuit.

I refer to my (nearly) previous question.

Are you in utopia when yet another,' way over inflation, we can get away with it because we can and therefore we will, otherwise you can't cook and will freeze' increase comes 4 times per capitalist year?

 

[wellquickwoody]

Re: Baroness Thatcher - RIP

She absolutely hated football. The Hillsborough tragedy would never have happened if her government decided not to put up fences and treated all football fans as scum. Hooliganism was drifting away at the end of the eighties anyway because of the start of the drug, ecstasy and 'love' calmed firms down.

I'm looking forward to the Manc derby tonight.

Just what are you on?

 

[luppers]

Dancing in the streets of Buenoe Aires.

never heard of this place

 

[big nuts]

I have a bottle of champagne in the fridge that was earmarked for this day but now it's happened I won't be wasting it on marking the passing of an old lady.

Thats the beverage of capitalism, you should go for a working mans drink like a stout or mild.

 

[RowleyBirkinQ.C(deceased)]

Baroness Thatcher - RIP

On politics, i'm just going to copy and paste what i said on the Jim Davidson thread. Most politicians are greedy, duplicitous barstewards, irrespective of whatever party they represent. There are some genuinely good m.p's who care about their constituents, but they are in the minority, most are career politicians who don't give a stuff about anybody other than themselves, lining their own pockets and stabbing people in the back to get on the front benches of government or opposition. I'm old enough to just about remember the awful mess labour left is in, in the 70's. Thatcher came in and presided over boom bust economics, promising home ownership to the poorest so they could buy their own council house, and because of their disastrous economical policy the country went into one of many recessions and those people then lost their houses. North Sea oil revenue was wasted, industry was ground away, poll tax was introduced. there is a genuine argument that the Falklands was a very convenient war to get Maggy out of a political hole. Yet more boom bust policies, Thatcher and lamonts Black Friday. Then corruption and sleaze leading to a new dawn under labour, eeeerrrrr not quite. After a promising start, same old bollocks, economic miss management, leading us into a bogus war under George Bushes leadership, Blair clung onto power until he knew the shit would hit the fan and then passed the poison chalice onto Brown who I would have felt sorry for if it wasn't for the fact that we were all in the shit economically. Then the expenses scandal came along and showed politicians up for the bunch of greedy barstewards that they are. Now in recent years the coalition government continue another disastrous and out of touch regime, continuing on a disastrous economic policy, that even renowned economist,philosopher, and political critic Noam Chompsky said was historically doomed to failure.
My family were traditionally left leaning, but sadly, and I mean sadly I can't bring myself to vote for anybody now days. I used to wax lyrical about the importance of voting and exercising your right to choose our leaders. But all I feel about politicians and politics is disappointment and bitterness, we've all been let down by government after government and will always be so.
Rant over, off my soapbox and back to match day threads and silly and or lighthearted posts for me.

 

[jakarta]

Thats the beverage of capitalism, you should go for a working mans drink like a stout or mild.

Nothing is too good for the workers!

 

[User removed 4]

Just as an aside (and bearing in mind there's still about 13 pages of this to read through) Thatcher didn't take apart Michael Foot. He was a very capable, eloquent politician who was taken apart by the papers.

I've shagged michael foots (step) granddaughter, just saying like.

 

[wendy's tackle]

Yes, MT believed that you should not be nannied by the state and rightly ensured that emphasis should be on you finding work. OK it wasn't easy but if you made the effort and got on your bike etc etc. Yes her decisive policies caused great pain especially for workers in failing industries that the country could not afford to prop up. But as is still the case now there was work for those willing to make the effort to go out and find it. I can remember going on a series of national training courses around 1982-84 and mixing with punters from across the UK including many from deprived areas. It dispelled some of the myths of a north / south divide when I saw how many of my peers from the north had ridiculously cheap housing, owned newish cars and were taking foreign holidays while most of us from the south were crippled by huge mortgage payments, many colleagues could not think of owning a property, could barely afford a car (I went without for several years) and certainly didn't have a foreign holiday.

I was a union rep at that time and there was so much emphasis from senior officials at national level on out of date extreme left wing views and creating industrial strife to spite the government and far too little on actually helping the plight of union members. I can remember fellow union members gradually tiring of all the left wing rhetoric yet in our hearts we were natural lefties, but the union's hierarchy seemed so out of touch because their strings were being pulled at national level. The thing that struck me was that if Mrs T was really that unpopular then why didn't old Labour catch the voters on the rebound - but instead New Labour chose to move way to the right.

That's a really interesting perspective. The MT debate has become so polarised, it's good to see some appreciation across the political divide. I'd be interested to know how you see the political spectrum now (but maybe this isn't the correct thread).

 

[Socialist Sid]

I've shagged michael foots (step) granddaughter, just saying like.

Woah there.

Are you talking about the fit dark haired one that stood for East Worthing and Shoreham?

 

[Questions]

I refer to my (nearly) previous question.

Are you in utopia when yet another,' way over inflation, we can get away with it because we can and therefore we will, otherwise you can't cook and will freeze' increase comes 4 times per capitalist year?

Good boy, you are celebrating her demise aren't you, any of that Red stag left ?

 

[Padders]

I started to read this thread but there are so many factual inaccuracies I have given up.

 

[BLOCK F]

Whoever it was under it was all union driven, as was everything. The unions ran the country. It had to stop and someone had to stop them. I used to think it was fun when I was a kid, searching for the candles every night because there was no electric, or bin bags piling up on the streets and bodies piling up at the undertakers...If mister union man, didn't get his own way, it was down tools and strike until we do...It was a joke and they were the ones always delivering the punchline to the people of Britain...Until Maggie turned the joke on them, then they weren't laughing so loudly. But whinging that she was a life wrecker, with no thought of all the lives they affected, with their own selfish actions.

Correct;the unions were ruining this country and had to be defeated.Inevitably ,there was collateral damage,but without Mrs.Thatcher's determination to free the country from the tyranny of the unions,they would have succeeded in bringing the country to its knees.

 

[Questions]

Woah there.

Are you talking about the fit dark haired one that stood for East Worthing and Shoreham?

That was Tony Benns granddaughter and I must confess I have never shagged a politicians daughter. Buggered a few MP's but thats for another day.