Barber On The Warpath Over Train Disruption, Doesn't Pull Any Punches!

[Easy 10]

One of the massive f**k ups with privatisation is that the rail companies have to pay decent some would say large wages to the staff especially drivers as Stagecoach found out when they took over in 1996, made drivers redundant and then discovered you haven't got much of a rail company without train drivers.

This is what is behind the dispute the drivers wages are a major factor in the cost of running a railway hence Wilkinson/DfT wanting to smash them, smash ASLEF & the RMT so they can then cut wages and make more profit for the likes of GOVIA and Virgin.

The problem with drivers overtime is that firstly they are paid well so don't need overtime and secondly that if they work overtime they go into the higher tax bracket meaning they work a day extra for basically nothing once it is taxed.

Which is why you need a full establishment of drivers at each depot to be able to run a full timetable without disruption and even a year ago SASTA admitted they didn't and weren't able to so it makes you wonder about the brains behind it knowing that you need the co-operation of your staff to be able to deliver to the public an advertised timetable. The one thing they couldn't handle was no or few staff making themselves available to work days off etc and this is exactly what they did.

One of the most interesting factors right there, and one that hadn't even occurred to me. So the "odd day" overtime to help cover a gap in the timetable, or an emergency like last Friday, is basically a non-starter.

 

[Ernest]

One of the most interesting factors right there, and one that hadn't even occurred to me. So the "odd day" overtime to help cover a gap in the timetable, or an emergency like last Friday, is basically a non-starter.

Would you give a Friday night up and work for a tenner ? Or you might as like a few years ago when you had a reasonable amount of staff you could 'bribe' someone to work Friday with the promise of an early night when they next wanted one, that's out of the door now as there isn't enough staff anyway without letting someone have an early day on top

 

[Hastings gull]

One of the massive f**k ups with privatisation is that the rail companies have to pay decent some would say large wages to the staff especially drivers as Stagecoach found out when they took over in 1996, made drivers redundant and then discovered you haven't got much of a rail company without train drivers.

This is what is behind the dispute the drivers wages are a major factor in the cost of running a railway hence Wilkinson/DfT wanting to smash them, smash ASLEF & the RMT so they can then cut wages and make more profit for the likes of GOVIA and Virgin.

The problem with drivers overtime is that firstly they are paid well so don't need overtime and secondly that if they work overtime they go into the higher tax bracket meaning they work a day extra for basically nothing once it is taxed.

Which is why you need a full establishment of drivers at each depot to be able to run a full timetable without disruption and even a year ago SASTA admitted they didn't and weren't able to so it makes you wonder about the brains behind it knowing that you need the co-operation of your staff to be able to deliver to the public an advertised timetable. The one thing they couldn't handle was no or few staff making themselves available to work days off etc and this is exactly what they did.

How very strange -we have been told all along that it is about safety, and it really seems to be selfish behaviour on the part of staff. So they are so well paid that they do not need overtime, or at least when it suits them, as confirmed by the driver on here a couple of weeks ago. It just does not add up - on the one hand you say you need a full compliment of drivers, reasonably enough, and yet the chap from the firm felt he needed to guarantee that overtime would still be available. Genuine question: If the DfT are so intent on smashing this and that, as you put it, why is there no other such alleged battleground with other franchises?

 

[Hastings gull]

Would you give a Friday night up and work for a tenner ? Or you might as like a few years ago when you had a reasonable amount of staff you could 'bribe' someone to work Friday with the promise of an early night when they next wanted one, that's out of the door now as there isn't enough staff anyway without letting someone have an early day on top

Again, this makes no sense -if you had a reasonable amount of staff, you would not have the need to "bribe" anyone, as you put it.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Is driving an option? Parking in The Bridge, whilst expensive, means you are master of your own destiny.

Otherwise, scarper on (or, shhhhhhhhhh, just before) 90 minutes so you're on the first train outta there.

Saw a tweet from the club today suggesting that all parking had now been booked (at the ground) and none would be available on the day. Obviously P&R is still available but not sure how quick that is to get away from.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Saw a tweet from the club today suggesting that all parking had now been booked (at the ground) and none would be available on the day. Obviously P&R is still available but not sure how quick that is to get away from.

in fact here it is

[TWEET]802153372405170176[/TWEET]

 

[Ernest]

Again, this makes no sense -if you had a reasonable amount of staff, you would not have the need to "bribe" anyone, as you put it.

With all due respect the complexities of trying to run a railway properly are too hard to explain especially on a Friday night when I have better things to do

 

[dazzer6666]

Is driving an option? Parking in The Bridge, whilst expensive, means you are master of your own destiny.

Otherwise, scarper on (or, shhhhhhhhhh, just before) 90 minutes so you're on the first train outta there.

Park in Woodingdean. 35 min stroll.

 

[Hastings gull]

Saw a tweet from the club today suggesting that all parking had now been booked (at the ground) and none would be available on the day. Obviously P&R is still available but not sure how quick that is to get away from.

assume that they also mean the Bridge - if you go down the Lewes Rd, from the stadium, then park at Mithras house, you have the choice of the bus, or, if you wish, a 35/40 minute walk. I always walk back, and then can drive straight out, and home to Hastings without a problem. By the time I get back to the car park, it is still about 40% full. Hope this helps

 

[Guinness Boy]

assume that they also mean the Bridge - if you go down the Lewes Rd, from the stadium, then park at Mithras house, you have the choice of the bus, or, if you wish, a 35/40 minute walk. I always walk back, and then can drive straight out, and home to Hastings without a problem. By the time I get back to the car park, it is still about 40% full. Hope this helps

Yep - Mithras House is P&R and therefore not sold out as of now. Read the club tweet I posted for further info.

I've got to chance it with SASTA tomorrow but their incompetence has clearly led to a huge increase in demand for pre-booked parking.

 

[Hastings gull]

With all due respect the complexities of trying to run a railway properly are too hard to explain especially on a Friday night when I have better things to do

And I apologise for expecting a sage like yourself to spend time with a pleb like me, who clearly does not have your clarity of written expression, or thought processes, and nothing better to do. I just thought that with your perpetual posts on how to run a railway, that, with your expertise on such grand ventures as this, you might have a response.

 

[Stat Brother]

How very strange -we have been told all along that it is about safety, and it really seems to be selfish behaviour on the part of staff. So they are so well paid that they do not need overtime, or at least when it suits them, as confirmed by the driver on here a couple of weeks ago. It just does not add up - on the one hand you say you need a full compliment of drivers, reasonably enough, and yet the chap from the firm felt he needed to guarantee that overtime would still be available. Genuine question: If the DfT are so intent on smashing this and that, as you put it, why is there no other such alleged battleground with other franchises?

Again, this makes no sense -if you had a reasonable amount of staff, you would not have the need to "bribe" anyone, as you put it.

I think you'd need to work in a now privatized public sector job to fully understand.
I'm a postie and what Ernest has written makes perfect sense to me, with no hint of underhanded deviousness.

That said I appreciate what was acceptable staff behaviour, and what practices remain, have very little in common with the 21st century.
The management approach to 'sorting it out' is equally if not more scandalous as they push to take back considerably more than is necessary, or in the case of the railways safe to do so.

 

[Hastings gull]

I think you'd need to work in a now privatized public sector job to fully understand.
I'm a postie and what Ernest has written makes perfect sense to me, with no hint of underhanded deviousness.

That said I appreciate what was acceptable staff behaviour, and what practices remain, have very little in common with the 21st century.
The management approach to 'sorting it out' is equally if not more scandalous as they push to take back considerably more than is necessary, or in the case of the railways safe to do so.

Thanks for this and I take you point about being in such a position. That is a very valid point. I am purely asking, as I don't know. With all respect, and I really don't wish to give offence; what you have come up with utterly meaningless; what is acceptable staff behaviour, and what is scandalous?

 

[Guinness Boy]

[/B]

Thanks for this and I take you point about being in such a position. That is a very valid point. I am purely asking, as I don't know. With all respect, and I really don't wish to give offence; what you have come up with utterly meaningless; what is acceptable staff behaviour, and what is scandalous?

He said what WAS acceptable staff behaviour. If you read the post properly you'd get that he probably means that some of the more inefficient habits of the public sector IN THE PAST such as breaks and lunch hours to the minute, mini work to rules and unions having a say so on absolutely everything are no longer acceptable, but the way of sorting it out is to treat the staff like shit or replace them with people who are wholly unsuitable for the task.

But then understanding his point wouldn't allow you to play the "nice but slightly ignorant guy toeing the Tory line" card again.

 

[Hastings gull]

He said what WAS acceptable staff behaviour. If you read the post properly you'd get that he probably means that some of the more inefficient habits of the public sector IN THE PAST such as breaks and lunch hours to the minute, mini work to rules and unions having a say so on absolutely everything are no longer acceptable, but the way of sorting it out is to treat the staff like shit or replace them with people who are wholly unsuitable for the task.

But then understanding his point wouldn't allow you to play the "nice but slightly ignorant guy toeing the Tory line" card again.

What a stupid post. He only talked about acceptable staff behaviour, without going into any detail at all. Hence my comment that it was hard to know what he meant. Your last sentence really says it all - it is the perennial problem of trying to get the politically committed to get off their high horse, quite apart from the irony of talking about the ignorant guy with "toeing" !

 

[Stat Brother]

[/B]

Thanks for this and I take you point about being in such a position. That is a very valid point. I am purely asking, as I don't know. With all respect, and I really don't wish to give offence; what you have come up with utterly meaningless; what is acceptable staff behaviour, and what is scandalous?

When Crozier was running Royal Mail he (correctly) accused the staff of 'Spanish practices'.
I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF THE INNER WORKINGS OF SASTA.
What was acceptable staff behaviour such as not working to time, sick leave, not finishing the job, the list is almost endless, and as said alien to people who work in the real world, needed to change.

These benefits are slowly being chipped away at, but the attitude remains.
I work with just under 100 people, well over 10% of those are not only unfit for Royal Mail, I can confidently say they'd be unable to work anywhere else either.

One of the main reasons for bringing about change is that well over 10 years ago RM stopped employing full time staff.
A policy they have done with such zeal, there now isn't enough staff to cover a routine day.
Every new initiative that comes our way is basically less than subtle code to reduce the workforce still further.

I agree with the RM management, the job was ridiculous and needed/needs proper firm leadership.
But guess what, now the bottom line is share price and profit, quality of service is a thing of the past.

To a point that's all very well when talking about delivering shite through your letterbox.
But taking a similar attitude while transporting hundreds of thousands of people around the country, at speed, is considerably more troublesome.

 

[Stat Brother]

He said what WAS acceptable staff behaviour. If you read the post properly you'd get that he probably means that some of the more inefficient habits of the public sector IN THE PAST such as breaks and lunch hours to the minute, mini work to rules and unions having a say so on absolutely everything are no longer acceptable, but the way of sorting it out is to treat the staff like shit or replace them with people who are wholly unsuitable for the task.

But then understanding his point wouldn't allow you to play the "nice but slightly ignorant guy toeing the Tory line" card again.

I could have just written that.

 

[Guinness Boy]

What a stupid post. He only talked about acceptable staff behaviour, without going into any detail at all. Hence my comment that it was hard to know what he meant. Your last sentence really says it all - it is the perennial problem of trying to get the politically committed to get off their high horse, quite apart from the irony of talking about the ignorant guy with "toeing" !

You toe the line. You don't tow it. http://grammarist.com/usage/toe-the-line/

You're about the most politically committed person on this board and it's getting boring.

 

[Ernest]

You toe the line. You don't tow it. http://grammarist.com/usage/toe-the-line/

You're about the most politically committed person on this board and it's getting boring.

That's why I can't be bothered explaining to somebody like that as they are pursuing the same boring agenda with each post

 

[Hastings gull]

When Crozier was running Royal Mail he (correctly) accused the staff of 'Spanish practices'.
I HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF THE INNER WORKINGS OF SASTA.
What was acceptable staff behaviour such as not working to time, sick leave, not finishing the job, the list is almost endless, and as said alien to people who work in the real world, needed to change.

These benefits are slowly being chipped away at, but the attitude remains.
I work with just under 100 people, well over 10% of those are not only unfit for Royal Mail, I can confidently say they'd be unable to work anywhere else either.

One of the main reasons for bringing about change is that well over 10 years ago RM stopped employing full time staff.
A policy they have done with such zeal, there now isn't enough staff to cover a routine day.
Every new initiative that comes our way is basically less than subtle code to reduce the workforce still further.

I agree with the RM management, the job was ridiculous and needed/needs proper firm leadership.
But guess what, now the bottom line is share price and profit, quality of service is a thing of the past.

To a point that's all very well when talking about delivering shite through your letterbox.
But taking a similar attitude while transporting hundreds of thousands of people around the country, at speed, is considerably more troublesome.

Thanks for that - so much better to have a civilised discussion. When my dad left the army, he got a job as a postie, and was appalled at the working practices, which came as quite a shock, after the rigid discipline of the services. You do acknowledge that working practices had to change, and presumably still have to, or at least attitudes, though the danger is, as you say, that combatting this, may lead to equally extreme solutions. Talking of delivering material through the letter box, with the proliferation of of much junk nowadays, I used to feel sorry for the postie, but somewhere I read that they are more than happy to bring it, as they get paid extra. Is this true?