Barber On The Warpath Over Train Disruption, Doesn't Pull Any Punches!

[The Albion Roar]

Gonna need a lot of buses for the Leeds game or it's going pear shaped

It's going to be pear-shaped every game.

The simple matter is - Southern gave the club many reassurances ahead of Friday's match, and they failed, spectacularly. That means that the club can no longer trust a single word SASTA say. How can they?

 

[deletebeepbeepbeep]

What a letter from Martin Perry.

Pity it will fall on death ears the Tories don't give a ****.

 

[AmexRuislip]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38095125

Also on other southern rail thread

 

[Yoda]

The longer this goes on, the more I can see the club suing Southern (and GTR) for Breach of Contract

 

[Gazwag]

The longer this goes on, the more I can see the club suing Southern (and GTR) for Breach of Contract

Problem is the staff know that so will do what they did last week again and again as it looks like it is Southern causing the cancellations

 

[Pantani]

Problem is the staff know that so will do what they did last week again and again as it looks like it is Southern causing the cancellations

What did the staff do last week? It has been written on here a million times. Those shifts were not covered, Southern knew all week they were not covered. Some guards did not go sick at 17:30 on Friday night, they were never rota'd to start with.

Even Southern do not dispute this.

 

[Gazwag]

Sorry but I don't believe it was entirely and coincidence after already spoiling one of the biggest events in Sussex this year and then a couple of weeks later the biggest evening event at the amex so far

 

[Yoda]

Sorry but I don't believe it was entirely and coincidence after already spoiling one of the biggest events in Sussex this year and then a couple of weeks later the biggest evening event at the amex so far

Paul Barber doesn't even believe the 'Staff Sickness' excuse peddled out initially by Southern. The fact they have since failed to mention it should tell you something too.

 

[Pantani]

Sorry but I don't believe it was entirely and coincidence after already spoiling one of the biggest events in Sussex this year and then a couple of weeks later the biggest evening event at the amex so far

If you are talking about Lewes Bonfire, they were made up that there would be no trains running. The bonfire societies would much rather keep the numbers down. As to coincidence, what are you talking about? Lewes Bonfire was a pre arranged strike that everyone knew about. They announced that strike on 22nd September. The RMT are being stubborn and difficult in lots of ways but they are at least announcing their strikes. There is zero evidence that RMT workers did not turn up for work on Friday night as an impromptu strike. And it is very wrong to accuse them of such.

You want to direct your ire somewhere? Read Martin Perry's letter. Chris Grayling and the DfT is the place for blame, not some train employees who fear for their jobs and are being ridden roughshod over by a mutlinational and their own government.

 

[Bozza]

What did the staff do last week? It has been written on here a million times. Those shifts were not covered, Southern knew all week they were not covered. Some guards did not go sick at 17:30 on Friday night, they were never rota'd to start with.

Even Southern do not dispute this.

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Southern genuinely felt they could cover the services required but their disgruntled workforce were well aware that by not helping out then a lot of grief would some Southern's way. With strikes now barely being noticed by anyone at all, the RMT and their members need other tactics to try and bring things to a head.

What is inexcusable is Southern giving the club absolutely no warning of this whatsoever that there was a risk to the services. As the club have said, had they known, then they'd have taken extra contingency measures.

Assuming no swift resolution to this dispute, then one would imagine the club will try and line up a lot of buses for the Leeds game.

 

[Pantani]

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Southern genuinely felt they could cover the services required but their disgruntled workforce were well aware that by not helping out then a lot of grief would some Southern's way. With strikes now barely being noticed by anyone at all, the RMT and their members need other tactics to try and bring things to a head.

Why would they feel that? I do the rota for my staff at my job. I know if a gap isn't filled it isn't filled. And I know it from weeks out. . Southern did not fill the gaps in their rota, they did not get some temps in from other railways (if that is even a thing). Simply Southern knew and did nothing about it. I know your fall back opinion is that unions are in the wrong, but I fail to see how this particular incident is anything to do with the RMT. Blame the RMT for the Christmas strikes, or the Bonfire Nights strikes, both of which were placed to cause maximum disruption to the general public, but not Friday night. As you say:

What is inexcusable is Southern giving the club absolutely no warning of this whatsoever that there was a risk to the services. As the club have said, had they known, then they'd have taken extra contingency measures.

Assuming no swift resolution to this dispute, then one would imagine the club will try and line up a lot of buses for the Leeds game.

It is worth pointing out in all this that I am not a disinterested observer. The company I work for has had it's worst summer on record due to the train strikes. My staff are all leaving early to go home for Christmas as they cannot rely on Southern to get them home on the 21st, 22nd or 23rd (yes, this is because of strikes). Finally my girlfriend has quit her job in London as she has been left stranded in London several times in the last four months. Do we sue Southern or the DfT when we cannot afford our mortgage? When both of us have lost our jobs because of these strikes? This is not the 70s/80s, the failure of southern and the DfT to sort this mess is endangering peoples lives, and an entire region that relies on the tourist pound is struggling because of it.

 

[Bozza]

Why would they feel that? I do the rota for my staff at my job. I know if a gap isn't filled it isn't filled. And I know it from weeks out. . Southern did not fill the gaps in their rota, they did not get some temps in from other railways (if that is even a thing). Simply Southern knew and did nothing about it. I know your fall back opinion is that unions are in the wrong, but I fail to see how this particular incident is anything to do with the RMT. Blame the RMT for the Christmas strikes, or the Bonfire Nights strikes, both of which were placed to cause maximum disruption to the general public, but not Friday night.

I imagine holes in rotas get filled all the time, particularly in this industry where, across the country, rail operators are technically understaffed and rely upon the staff they do have working extra shifts. Those close to this dispute have posted on these very pages about how staff are now often working the bare minimum they have to whereas, in the past, they would work extra shifts.

Put it this way: if I were a disgruntled Southern worker, noticing my strikes are now largely irrelevant and I had been offered an extra shift on Friday night, I'd not be taking it. I'd also be suggesting to my mates that if none of us picked up the work, then there was a decent chance of Southern getting some high-profile grief.

My position is not that the union is in the wrong but, as many others have now come to realise, I don't believe they are the patron saint of rail safety that they tried to make themselves out to be. My take is that both Southern and the RMT are largely as bad as each other.

 

[portlock seagull]

This is when dictatorships are better. People tend to do their best when their lives are on the line

Is it time to tarmac the Lewis to Brighton line and make into another road / car and bus parking? That way it would ease congestion and put an end once and for all to this 'hostage' situation because let's face it, it's gone on for years now with no end in sight and bound to happen again even if it did. Moreover everyone involved has proven beyond doubt how incompetent they are. Everyone should lose their jobs on both sides. It's the nuclear option but hey, shouldn't they now be considered too? That or turn into a green highway for cyclists because the Lewis to Falmer line is DISUSED currently after all.

 

[Pantani]

I imagine holes in rotas get filled all the time, particularly in this industry where, across the country, rail operators are technically understaffed and rely upon the staff they do have working extra shifts. Those close to this dispute have posted on these very pages about how staff are now often working the bare minimum they have to whereas, in the past, they would work extra shifts.

Put it this way: if I were a disgruntled Southern worker, noticing my strikes are now largely irrelevant and I had been offered an extra shift on Friday night, I'd not be taking it. I'd also be suggesting to my mates that if none of us picked up the work, then there was a decent chance of Southern getting some high-profile grief.

My position is not that the union is in the wrong but, as many others have now come to realise, I don't believe they are the patron saint of rail safety that they tried to make themselves out to be. I believe that both Southern and the RMT are as bad as each other.

Bozza, those shifts do not get filled at the last minute. People are not doing their allotted eight hour shift then going "You know what I will stay for that other eight hour shift as well". People have to sign up for those shifts in advance. Southern are not sitting there each day waiting for a bunch of guards to say yes they will stay on for a bit longer. The trains run at certain times, drivers and guards are assigned to those trains, then Southern know they can run them. As I have said I am responsible for a rota at a much smaller scale at my job. I have enough staff to cover for sickness and holidays, I have more than enough to fill the allotted number of shifts there are a week. To do anything else is insanity. Southern have been running their business without this number of staff for years. So yes the RMT are a ridiculously stubborn union. Yes, they are making it very difficult to settle this dispute. In fact yes, they probably could not give a monkey's about safety. But no, they are not as bad as Southern and the DfT, because those guys are willfully underfunding this railway and are setting it up to fail even without the RMT being on strike.

 

[Dick Swiveller]

This is when dictatorships are better. People tend to do their best when their lives are on the line

Is it time to tarmac the Lewis to Brighton line and make into another road / car and bus parking? That way it would ease congestion and put an end once and for all to this 'hostage' situation because let's face it, it's gone on for years now with no end in sight and bound to happen again even if it did. Moreover everyone involved has proven beyond doubt how incompetent they are. Everyone should lose their jobs on both sides. It's the nuclear option but hey, shouldn't they now be considered too? That or turn into a green highway for cyclists because the Lewis to Falmer line is DISUSED currently after all.

You want to tarmac 739 miles? Not too sure Sturgeon will be down with that as a lot of it goes through Scotland.

 

[Bozza]

Southern have been running their business without this number of staff for years.

Which is the same as pretty much every other rail operator in the UK - something I didn't know before this dispute happened. The industry should not be able to operate in this way, clearly.

 

[lawros left foot]

What all of us should remember is a strike is pointless if it doesn't affect anyone. The most successful strikes are the ones that cause the most disruption.
The biggest villain in all this is the Government, they were quick to take the Prison Officers to court, because it impacted something they were directly responsible for, but, they are more than willing to see this dispute rumble on . It makes me think they have an anti Union hidden agenda

 

[Gazwag]

Why would they feel that? I do the rota for my staff at my job. I know if a gap isn't filled it isn't filled. And I know it from weeks out. . Southern did not fill the gaps in their rota, they did not get some temps in from other railways (if that is even a thing). Simply Southern knew and did nothing about it. I know your fall back opinion is that unions are in the wrong, but I fail to see how this particular incident is anything to do with the RMT. Blame the RMT for the Christmas strikes, or the Bonfire Nights strikes, both of which were placed to cause maximum disruption to the general public, but not Friday night. As you say:

So on that basis it must be a regular occurrence that every Friday (or even every night of the week) at that time of the evening the same thing happens. If somebody could post the actual running report on non-strike days for those trains then surely we would see some correlation. I might then change my opinion. If generally there are trains running at those times during the previous, say, 4 weeks then like I said, a funny coincidence.

 

[Ernest]

I imagine holes in rotas get filled all the time, particularly in this industry where, across the country, rail operators are technically understaffed and rely upon the staff they do have working extra shifts. Those close to this dispute have posted on these very pages about how staff are now often working the bare minimum they have to whereas, in the past, they would work extra shifts.

Put it this way: if I were a disgruntled Southern worker, noticing my strikes are now largely irrelevant and I had been offered an extra shift on Friday night, I'd not be taking it. I'd also be suggesting to my mates that if none of us picked up the work, then there was a decent chance of Southern getting some high-profile grief.

My position is not that the union is in the wrong but, as many others have now come to realise, I don't believe they are the patron saint of rail safety that they tried to make themselves out to be. My take is that both Southern and the RMT are largely as bad as each other.

One thing you've haven't mentioned , apart from being wrong with everything you've written here as SASTA knew Wednesday they couldn't cover the jobs and nobody had made themselves available to work overtime is that where were the managers they've been using to cover the services to Seaford etc ? Why weren't they called in like they were used on Bonfire Night or weren't SASTA prepared to bribe them to work again ?

Just to point out , overtime by train crews is voluntary, if you have done 48 hours or more that week some people do not want to work any more and would like to spend time with their families especially at the weekend. The numbers of staff willing to do overtime before that start has always been low, less than 30% would make themselves available to work on their days off so when this number is lower as staff no longer wish to work extra shifts due to what is going on then it becomes impossible and finally if the managers who resource the crews etc at short notice are so pissed off with the likes of Horton, Doll, Foulds et al and they won't bother crews at home etc anymore then you get the perfect storm which happened Friday.

To simply blame the RMT and 'disgruntled workers' only helps SASTA to carry on with their stupid 'strike back' at them instead of resolving all the issues

 

[Pantani]

So on that basis it must be a regular occurrence that every Friday (or even every night of the week) at that time of the evening the same thing happens. If somebody could post the actual running report on non-strike days for those trains then surely we would see some correlation. I might then change my opinion. If generally there are trains running at those times during the previous, say, 4 weeks then like I said, a funny coincidence.

It is a regular occurrence. Southern trains constantly run late, or a cancelled at short notice even in rush hour. As I said my girlfriend commutes to London. She has not been able to get home several times, none of these have been on strike days. Southern's own figures for the latest time period mid September to mid October show 26% of trains were more than five minutes late, 68% were late and nearly 5% did not run at all.

Here is your link http://www.southernrailway.com/your-journey/performance-results/

Remember most f those trains to/from Falmer on football days are not scheduled. So would not show up in these figures.