Barber on FFP

[DIFFBROOK]

Edit. Link wouldnt show.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Given the fines will be minimal when compared to the treasure of ending up in the PL maybe the league should give a suspended sentence of minus 15 points to the cheaters and it will be enacted when they next fall into the league ?

Define minimal. I would say that they are quite substantial (if imposed correctly of course). Good idea about the points though, but make it 30.

 

[halbpro]

I thought that was very interesting from Barber, very insightful. I do agree about his stance that the clubs have voted for this, so how can they challenge it? They'd look pretty daft if they did.

 

[KZNSeagull]

The FA have to try and make FFP work but have they really thought this charity thing through? Even the clubs adhering to FFP will still be losing money year in year out, and if applied properly the fines will be potentially huge. How can football afford to see this massive outflow of cash from the game?

That's a very good point.

 

[pishhead]

Expect lots of teams to have dodgy sponsorship deals to cover huge losses. I'm thinking QPR and Forest. Both teams are sponsored by their respective owners.

 

[Driver8]

Expect lots of teams to have dodgy sponsorship deals to cover huge losses. I'm thinking QPR and Forest. Both teams are sponsored by their respective owners.

If they are artificially high they will be ignored for FFP purposes.

 

[bhanutz]

Lets guess the 3 clubs that didnt vote for it.......umm I will start with Forest...

 

[Goldstone1976]

Expect lots of teams to have dodgy sponsorship deals to cover huge losses. I'm thinking QPR and Forest. Both teams are sponsored by their respective owners.

It's in this sort of area that I anticipate challenges to fines/transfer embargoes to come. Clubs that are penalised will argue the toss about the precise definitions incorporated into FFP, saying that by their interpretation of the rules what they have done is ok. I doubt that many (any?) of the 21 clubs who voted for it will just come out and argue that FFP is flawed in principle; they'll just disagree about the precise interpretation. The 3 clubs who didn't vote for it will have at least a small moral case to argue that the whole thing is a farce, though presumably by playing in a competition under FL rules they are deemed to have accepted all the rules, including FFP.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Define minimal. I would say that they are quite substantial (if imposed correctly of course). Good idea about the points though, but make it 30.

I can't remember the exact figures but a £30m loss results in something like a £5m fine ? Given the TV money and parachute payments if a team comes straight back down it's hardly a punishment. I plucked 15 points out of the air - maybe a graded point deduction system would be fairer.

 

[Mowgli37]

Cheers for sharing, interesting video and you also got to read the emails regarding Leo's transfer!

 

[Goldstone1976]

Lets guess the 3 clubs that didnt vote for it.......umm I will start with Forest...

I think it's the three that were relegated last season...

 

[Pavilionaire]

Expect lots of teams to have dodgy sponsorship deals to cover huge losses. I'm thinking QPR and Forest. Both teams are sponsored by their respective owners.

Given the FA are involved, expect a lucrative sponsorship deal between one of the beneficiary charities and one of the miscreant clubs, e.g. "Nottingham Forest sign £5million 'sponsorship' deal with St John's Ambulance"

 

[KZNSeagull]

I can't remember the exact figures but a £30m loss results in something like a £5m fine ? Given the TV money a parachute payments if a team comes straight back down it's hardly a punishment. I plucked 15 points out of the air - maybe a graded point deduction system would be fairer.

A 30m loss will result in a fine of a lot more than that - I did work it out once, something like 18m.

Edit. Just found my spreadsheet! 18.68m based on an allowable loss of 8m.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

The FA have to try and make FFP work but have they really thought this charity thing through? Even the clubs adhering to FFP will still be losing money year in year out, and if applied properly the fines will be potentially huge. How can football afford to see this massive outflow of cash from the game?

It's not the Football Association who are controlling FFP for the Championship, League 1 and League 2 - it's the Football League.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

I can't remember the exact figures but a £30m loss results in something like a £5m fine ? Given the TV money and parachute payments if a team comes straight back down it's hardly a punishment. I plucked 15 points out of the air - maybe a graded point deduction system would be fairer.

All explained:

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/financial-fair-play-explained.php

 

[W.C.]

They were originally. The FL changed the destination 2 or 3 months ago.

Thank you. Missed that.

So, the rules are changing already. Be amazed if this serves as any kind of punishment for profligate clubs, whilst we continue to do the right thing. Ho hum.

 

[marshy68]

The FA have to try and make FFP work but have they really thought this charity thing through? Even the clubs adhering to FFP will still be losing money year in year out, and if applied properly the fines will be potentially huge. How can football afford to see this massive outflow of cash from the game?

I don't get it. If you spunked all your money on signing messi and you fail to get promoted how are you going to pay the fine ? If your skint your skint.

 

[fosters headband]

A 30m loss will result in a fine of a lot more than that - I did work it out once, something like 18m.

Edit. Just found my spreadsheet! 18.68m based on an allowable loss of 8m.

What happens if the club can't pay, as I presume Palace would not have been able to do in 2010. Would the league then apply for a winding up order along with the HRMC?

Would clubs like Palace be allowed to pay the fines at a penny in the pound?

 

[Brovion]

The FA have to try and make FFP work but have they really thought this charity thing through? Even the clubs adhering to FFP will still be losing money year in year out, and if applied properly the fines will be potentially huge. How can football afford to see this massive outflow of cash from the game?

Agreed. If the fines are trivial they won't act as a deterrent, and if they're substantial the game can't afford, as you say, to lose the money. If the 'fines being re-distributed' idea was quashed by the Premier League then I too support the "Well ok, we'll dock you fifteen points when you get relegated then" approach. And I'd apply it for as many years as the parachute payments last!

Won't happen of course as it will mean the League having to stand up to its biggest clubs - and it'll all just end up in substantial profits for m'learned friends. Maybe the League could keep the fines to pay the legal fees?

 

[Brovion]

Thank you. Missed that.

So, the rules are changing already. Be amazed if this serves as any kind of punishment for profligate clubs, whilst we continue to do the right thing. Ho hum.

There is the point though that FFP is actually FFCS - Financial ****ing Common Sense. We still need to reign in our losses regardless, and I never make any friends when I say this but I sincerely hope the profligate clubs go bust, get kicked out of the League, reform and start again at the bottom. If a club like ours (well supported with relatively low wages by Championship standards) makes stonking great losses it shows how screwed professional football is.