[Albion] Banter or Hate?

[Eric the meek]

Done.

Society is indeed changing. Brighton are in the vanguard of change, both on and off the pitch.
There's a long way to go of course.

 

[CovJet]

It does now, must have added it.

I did...I'm feeling decidedly inadequate!

 

[Napper]

done , banter for most

 

[CovJet]

Good stu

Re done mine, Gotta get it right, yeah

Good stuff, thank you

 

[nickbrighton]

as a gay fan, this is something that is close to home. The example of we can see you holding hands is in no way homophobic, the retort of "too ugly to be gay" is a fun response and IS banter

Its a fine line between "banter" and hompohobia, and everyone will see it differently- personally not one of my gay friends and colleagues sees the holding hands chant as anything other than mildly amusing, although some straight acquaintances and some on here think they know better than me and think i should be outraged and offended

The homophobia that is real is the vile personalised assaults (verbal and physical) perpetrated by some against individuals whether gay or not, spouting and spitting venom, and hatred. as @Psychobilly freakout commented in his post. Thats what the authorities should be looking at

 

[Icy Gull]

as a gay fan, this is something that is close to home. The example of we can see you holding hands is in no way homophobic, the retort of "too ugly to be gay" is a fun response and IS banter

Its a fine line between "banter" and hompohobia, and everyone will see it differently- personally not one of my gay friends and colleagues sees the holding hands chant as anything other than mildly amusing, although some straight acquaintances and some on here think they know better than me and think i should be outraged and offended

The homophobia that is real is the vile personalised assaults (verbal and physical) perpetrated by some against individuals whether gay or not, spouting and spitting venom, and hatred. as @Psychobilly freakout commented in his post. Thats what the authorities should be looking at

Good post, hence my fence sitting on most chants that could be considered homophobic. Some of the stuff that goes on outside the stadiums is totally different and unacceptable and the perpetrators should be prosecuted.

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

as a gay fan, this is something that is close to home. The example of we can see you holding hands is in no way homophobic, the retort of "too ugly to be gay" is a fun response and IS banter

Its a fine line between "banter" and hompohobia, and everyone will see it differently- personally not one of my gay friends and colleagues sees the holding hands chant as anything other than mildly amusing, although some straight acquaintances and some on here think they know better than me and think i should be outraged and offended

The homophobia that is real is the vile personalised assaults (verbal and physical) perpetrated by some against individuals whether gay or not, spouting and spitting venom, and hatred. as @Psychobilly freakout commented in his post. Thats what the authorities should be looking at

Good post and it's good to hear feedback from a gay fan.

But do you not feel that the 'we can see you holding hands' chant, which as a kid I thought was funny and I'd join in with the 'too ugly to be gay' retort, is the starting point for the vile, personalised assaults? If certain fans think they can get away with that, they're then going to push it further?

 

[surlyseagull]

Done.
Yes, changing society, when I look back to football in the 70s (which I believe was the worst era for discrimination, etc ) it was toxic in the stadiums and everything was considered banter compared to today, we are heading in the right direction hopefully but it is a work in progress imo.

 

[Insel affe]

If certain fans think they can get away with that, they're then going to push it further?

True, but what I have noticed if for example, what happened to me coming away from the North heading back to the bus with my daughter, a group of Man City fans coming the opposite way as I walked past with my daughter right in front of me, single file, one of them pointed his finger at me and said "gay c*nt" - he was immediately followed by more City fans, who heard the bloke in front of them, and said to me as we passed "sorry mate, he is a cock, well played" - I have seen that more and more, opposing fans outside correcting idiots as opposed to cattle mentality of joining in and kicking off.

Sadly I bet every Brighton fan can recite a time when we have had vile hatred chucked in our face too or from a game, and the vast majority of us are straight, I cannot comprehend what it is like if you are gay, kudos for coming to see football.

 

[nickbrighton]

Good post and it's good to hear feedback from a gay fan.

But do you not feel that the 'we can see you holding hands' chant, which as a kid I thought was funny and I'd join in with the 'too ugly to be gay' retort, is the starting point for the vile, personalised assaults? If certain fans think they can get away with that, they're then going to push it further?

i genuinely don't think so, i honestly cant see any hatred in "your holding hands". Its not nasty, its not derogatory in anyeway that I can see.

There is a danger, imo, that we over sanitise everything, where do we stop? Almost all humour has a but of the joke, all funny situations the same.

The problem as I see it, is the authorities like to focus on things like this , and can be seen to be "doing something" while basically turning a blind eye to the real homophobia, sexism, racism, betting issues because tackling that, would cost them money and mean they actually have to DO something

 

[Oh_aye]

as a gay fan, this is something that is close to home. The example of we can see you holding hands is in no way homophobic, the retort of "too ugly to be gay" is a fun response and IS banter

Its a fine line between "banter" and hompohobia, and everyone will see it differently- personally not one of my gay friends and colleagues sees the holding hands chant as anything other than mildly amusing, although some straight acquaintances and some on here think they know better than me and think i should be outraged and offended

The homophobia that is real is the vile personalised assaults (verbal and physical) perpetrated by some against individuals whether gay or not, spouting and spitting venom, and hatred. as @Psychobilly freakout commented in his post. Thats what the authorities should be looking at

Really interesting to read this. As a straight man I don't get offended by it and so put banter but I'm always uneasy about being blasè about in case it's causing someone else grief as I'd want to be a natural ally.

I'm always more struck by how grippingly unfunny and unoriginal most of it is.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

If there’s one word I hate it’s banter.

 

[Insel affe]

If there’s one word I hate it’s banter.

Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Nutter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter, Banter.

Childish I know, but I am bored at work right now.....

 

[Oh_aye]

If there’s one word I hate it’s banter.

I agree with you actually. Ironically in light of the context its most often used by people with no actual sense of humour and often as a cover for actual bullying behaviour.

 

[Titanic]

as a gay fan, this is something that is close to home. The example of we can see you holding hands is in no way homophobic, the retort of "too ugly to be gay" is a fun response and IS banter

Its a fine line between "banter" and hompohobia, and everyone will see it differently- personally not one of my gay friends and colleagues sees the holding hands chant as anything other than mildly amusing, although some straight acquaintances and some on here think they know better than me and think i should be outraged and offended

The homophobia that is real is the vile personalised assaults (verbal and physical) perpetrated by some against individuals whether gay or not, spouting and spitting venom, and hatred. as @Psychobilly freakout commented in his post. Thats what the authorities should be looking at

Great post.. but asking the knuckle-draggers to identify a subtly nuanced line between banter and hatred seems to be problematic at best.

It doesn't seem a great loss to the joy of attending football to cut out the 'holding hands' if it helps reduce the nasty stuff.

 

[BrightonCottager]

Dear Seagulls,

I’m a Wolves fan – I’m coming in peace and hoping you can help me out…

I’m a senior Lecturer at Birmingham City University, writing academic papers as part of my PhD portfolio (Koln University). My research has a focus on the language used by football fans at games – for some people it’s ‘banter’ and for others, it has become a ‘hate crime’. It is a complex, emotive issue and one in which Wolverhampton Wanderers have recently incurred a £100,000 fine from the FA, due to chants aimed at Chelsea fans during the Wolves vs Chelsea game earlier this year. We also have had a number of arrests at games involving Brighton, so the issue is very relevant to both of our clubs.

I want to find out what you think of the language used – I want you to be honest. I've had a fantastic response so far (heading towards 1,500 replies) and some lively debate.

The questionnaire is entirely voluntary and completely anonymous. I will only use the data I obtain for academic papers and once complete I will share the data with you on this forum. I have ethical approval granted from Koln University.

I will be comparing your answers with those from supporters of Arsenal, Watford, Plymouth, Ipswich Chelsea, Swansea, Bolton, Cardiff and Newcastle.

The questionnaire should only take you a couple of minutes and I would like to thank you in advance. Here is the link:

Hate Crime | Hate Crime - Web Survey Tools

Hate Crime - Web Survey Tools

questionpro.com

Kind regards,

Peter Evans

Are you sure this is part of a PhD body of work? Please provide a copy of your ethics approval.
Thanks.

 

[Insel affe]

Are you sure this is part of a PhD body of work? Please provide a copy of your ethics approval.
Thanks.

I did actually wonder, the way the questions are set out, if it was part of a defence case.

 

[Lethargic]

Done but I am not sure how meaningful the results will be.

This is a more complex situation, its not just about the language used it is as much about the delivery and way the language is used. Analyzing just the words does not take this into account which makes it very difficult to judge. For me over time most chants have become more hate filled and toxic, we have lost a bit of that ability to judge the delivery of chants and therefore banter has almost become hate by default.

My summary might be a bit of a clunky description but I hope you get what I mean.

 

[Lethargic]

I did actually wonder, the way the questions are set out, if it was part of a defence case.

I did wonder myself but hoping its this individual

Peter Evans

Staff profile for Peter Evans, a member of the Birmingham City Business School

www.bcu.ac.uk

 

[Affy]

Done. By my very simplistic opinion, homophobia is anything which causes distress (whether intended or not). Holding hands does not identify specifically homosexual people. Therefore, I consider this banter, especially, as others have noted, it is usually met with a similar tongue in cheek response.
Rent Boy on the other hand, is a derivative term intended to cause offence. Whilst I detest the woke snowflake easily offended culture we are becoming, any form of legitimate discrimination (sexism, racism, homophobia et al) should be banned.