[Politics] Bagpipe Sturgeon and a 2010 independence vote.

[Mo Gosfield]

Good luck Scotland if they do choose to break free and then manage to region the EU I will seriously be considering moving north of the boarder and applying for citizenship

Well jolly good luck with that.
Sadly, you will have missed the rather better days of the Scottish economy, receiving as it does, £1500 more per head than England at present. Plus, you will be dealing with your own budget deficit ( £ 15bn + ) and so you will be paying higher taxes and seeing plenty of spending cuts, to try and cover the shortfall. There will be less money to spend on schools and health and prices will be higher in the shops, as you only do 15% of your trade with the EU. You will have to re-negotiate the other 85% with UK ( 65% ) and the rest of the world ( 20% )
So good luck with Crashing Out of the UK and enjoying all the benefits of a gloriously, free and independent Scotland, away from the horrible shackles of your benefactor and embracing European Nationalism and all the benefits of that. Well, for as long as it lasts in its current format until the Eurofall Avalanche.

 

[ManOfSussex]

It'll cost an awful lot of money, as well as the practical difficulties of locations, to build new naval bases to replace Faslane and Coulport to house Trident if they go it alone. I'm sure an independent England on The UN Security Council without a nuclear deterrent will have all the same gravitas as now. Still, we could use the money saved on something else - let's fund our NHS instead.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Actually, the porridge leaving the UK would be fine by me. They can then stay in the EU and ponce off them for a change.

That said, imagine the headache over borders...look at all the hassle with Ireland.

The SNP are demonstrating a total lack of competence in governing Scotland so, realistically, linking their “independence” with remaining in the EU is their only chance of winning this time round.

 

[Spiros]

Spain have never said they would veto an independent Scotland joining the EU.

It's bit of a myth I'm afraid.

I think they'd prefer to re-apply and not assume automatic membership.

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At the time of the previous independence vote I was in Spain and Rajoy was on Spanish news talking about it. He was clear that he would vote against Scotland joining the EU as it would effectively be the EU undermining sovereign governments, or words to that effect (though my spanish is a bit limited, I'll admit)

 

[Pavilionaire]

The Scots are more left-leaning than their English counterparts but as a small nation of 6 million they don/t have the delusions of grandeur that affect half of English people. There are many smaller nations than Scotland in the EU so there's no fundamental reason why they shouldn't thrive.

The X Factor is the extent to which they'll win or lose by staying in the EU if England eventually leaves the EU. I see plenty of attraction in having an English-speaking hub both in the EU and in Britain and they have the potential to hoover up some business currently based in England. I also expect them to forge closer ties with Scandinavian countries with whom they have more in common politically than Tory-run, London-centric England.

 

[Leighgull]

The Scots are more left-leaning than their English counterparts but as a small nation of 6 million they don/t have the delusions of grandeur that affect half of English people. There are many smaller nations than Scotland in the EU so there's no fundamental reason why they shouldn't thrive.

The X Factor is the extent to which they'll win or lose by staying in the EU if England eventually leaves the EU. I see plenty of attraction in having an English-speaking hub both in the EU and in Britain and they have the potential to hoover up some business currently based in England. I also expect them to forge closer ties with Scandinavian countries with whom they have more in common politically than Tory-run, London-centric England.

Are you serious? No delusions of Grandeur? Do you know any Scots? Their national song “flower of Scotland” is the only one in the world (as far as I’m aware) that celebrates a victory over their nearest neighbour rather than the virtues of their own country, they STILL believe they’re good at ”Fitbae” although I think that they might have smelled the coffee on that one recently...they’re so far up themselves it’s untrue.

They are definitely more left leaning though. That’s why they send their kids to University for free paid for by the rest of us, get free prescriptions, paid for by the rest of us, and cop £1500 a head more from central government to fund Sturgeons crackpot economic policies.

I personally love them, I don’t want them to go but...behave.

 

[Blue3]

Well jolly good luck with that.
Sadly, you will have missed the rather better days of the Scottish economy, receiving as it does, £1500 more per head than England at present. Plus, you will be dealing with your own budget deficit ( £ 15bn + ) and so you will be paying higher taxes and seeing plenty of spending cuts, to try and cover the shortfall. There will be less money to spend on schools and health and prices will be higher in the shops, as you only do 15% of your trade with the EU. You will have to re-negotiate the other 85% with UK ( 65% ) and the rest of the world ( 20% )
So good luck with Crashing Out of the UK and enjoying all the benefits of a gloriously, free and independent Scotland, away from the horrible shackles of your benefactor and embracing European Nationalism and all the benefits of that. Well, for as long as it lasts in its current format until the Eurofall Avalanche.

That sounds like many of the same arguments being used to not leave the EU, been looking at properties luckly I have no mortgage and I am retired so I can for the same value as my three bed terraced house which has a tiny garden and no garage or off road parking, for the same value I have seen in nice areas houses five bedroom two bathrooms detached garage and seperate workshop huge grounds close to Cold stream

 

[Pavilionaire]

Are you serious? No delusions of Grandeur? Do you know any Scots? Their national song “flower of Scotland” is the only one in the world (as far as I’m aware) that celebrates a victory over their nearest neighbour rather than the virtues of their own country, they STILL believe they’re good at ”Fitbae” although I think that they might have smelled the coffee on that one recently...they’re so far up themselves it’s untrue.

They are definitely more left leaning though. That’s why they send their kids to University for free paid for by the rest of us, get free prescriptions, paid for by the rest of us, and cop £1500 a head more from central government to fund Sturgeons crackpot economic policies.

I personally love them, I don’t want them to go but...behave.

I spent 4 years getting educated at a Scottish university, "free". In my 4 years I never got abuse for being English. Great people, I've far more in common with the Scots than Brexit-voting wankers in the industrial heartlands of England and Wales.

 

[clapham_gull]

At the time of the previous independence vote I was in Spain and Rajoy was on Spanish news talking about it. He was clear that he would vote against Scotland joining the EU as it would effectively be the EU undermining sovereign governments, or words to that effect (though my spanish is a bit limited, I'll admit)

Which is bullshit really and not the position of the Spanish government now even it is was then.

Scotland if they leave will leave legally.

If the Spanish government throw a hissy fit over an application from Scotland citing Catalonia they are going to look very very stupid.

Scotland would be an independent country at that point.


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[beorhthelm]

Scotland would be an independent country at that point.

and a couple of years, in opinion of EU and their rules, until joining the EU.

 

[clapham_gull]

The Scots are more left-leaning than their English counterparts but as a small nation of 6 million they don/t have the delusions of grandeur that affect half of English people. There are many smaller nations than Scotland in the EU so there's no fundamental reason why they shouldn't thrive..

Exactly and Brexit has changed everything. The EU will protect them in the same they have stood with Ireland.

An independent Scotland will also be a very good position to attract English based companies (including international ones) to relocate over the border.

What's been completely missed in the Brexit argument is how us leaving hands strategic leverage to countries such as Scotland, Ireland and even the Netherlands in attracting "English speaking" companies who want access to the single market.

Just set up in Scotland.

1) Cheaper wages
2) Easy to get to - no need to fly like Ireland or the Netherlands. The UK government is even funding a high speed rail link to make it quicker.
3) Relatively easy for English staff and their families to relocate.
4) Incentives from the Scottish government to do so.

Little, little England.

The huge irony of course being that Scotland was warned by the anti-Scottish Nationalist Tory party that leaving the UK would mean leaving the EU.

 

[GT49er]

The Scots are more left-leaning than their English counterparts but as a small nation of 6 million they don/t have the delusions of grandeur .........

Just when I thought I could never read anything dafter or more deluded!

 

[Pavilionaire]

Just when I thought I could never read anything dafter or more deluded!

Do you know any Scots?

 

[Doonhamer7]

....this is really sad to read, most Scots don’t want to leave as we recognise the economic benefit that we are stronger as part of a Union with England (and its larger economy) but as England doesn’t see the same effect of being in an Union with a larger economy ( say like the EU) then we’d be better offf with the bigger economy anyway.....or are we just going to be a US vessel state ...

As for delusions of grandeur, well we did supply the engineers to build your empire, we’ve out performed most nations relative to our size in the fields of inventions, developments and art, were canny with our money, and our football team is not rubbish it’s really really rubbish (and we all know it), we’ve delivered the two greatest drinks the world has ever known (one that gives you a hangover and one that cures it!)....and we’ve solved the rise in aging population (and its drain on the state economy) by all keeling over at an average age of 54....

 

[clapham_gull]

Do you know any Scots?

I know many and haven't a clue what he's on about either. In their defence you can come to a conclusion about "others" by talking to them in pubs.

 

[clapham_gull]

....this is really sad to read, most Scots don’t want to leave as we recognise the economic benefit that we are stronger as part of a Union with England (and its larger economy) but as England doesn’t see the same effect of being in an Union with a larger economy ( say like the EU) then we’d be better offf with the bigger economy anyway.....or are we just going to be a US vessel state ...

As for delusions of grandeur, well we did supply the engineers to build your empire, we’ve out performed most nations relative to our size in the fields of inventions, developments and art, were canny with our money, and our football team is not rubbish it’s really really rubbish (and we all know it), we’ve delivered the two greatest drinks the world has ever known (one that gives you a hangover and one that cures it!)....and we’ve solved the rise in aging population (and its drain on the state economy) by all keeling over at an average age of 54....

Yes it's an interesting one

1) Hang onto England which doesn't want to part of anything and considers Scotland to be a family member which requires a handout every now and then.

2) Leave the UK and join the "much bigger than the UK" EU where you will be looked after and have a much bigger seat at the table than the UK which has decided to downsize to a bungalow.

And let's all remember everyone. The scots were told that LEAVING THE UNION MEANT LEAVING THE EU.

Little, little England.

 

[GT49er]

Do you know any Scots?

Yep. And I've lived there. I loved the place, and even made friends there. My Scottish in-laws were great too. But to say the Scots don't have delusions of grandeur...........oh my fvckin' eye!

 

[GT49er]

....this is really sad to read, most Scots don’t want to leave as we recognise the economic benefit that we are stronger as part of a Union with England (and its larger economy) but as England doesn’t see the same effect of being in an Union with a larger economy ( say like the EU) then we’d be better offf with the bigger economy anyway.....or are we just going to be a US vessel state ...

As for delusions of grandeur, well we did supply the engineers to build your empire, we’ve out performed most nations relative to our size in the fields of inventions, developments and art, were canny with our money, and our football team is not rubbish it’s really really rubbish (and we all know it), we’ve delivered the two greatest drinks the world has ever known (one that gives you a hangover and one that cures it!)....and we’ve solved the rise in aging population (and its drain on the state economy) by all keeling over at an average age of 54....

Hmmm ........... how old is wee Krankie Sturgeon? (he asks hopefully)

 

[GT49er]

I know many and haven't a clue what he's on about either. In their defence you can come to a conclusion about "others" by talking to them in pubs.

Whoops. You've dropped a clanger there with wild assumptions. However, one part of your post I have to admit you've got spot on. The bit where you say you haven't a clue.

 

[clapham_gull]

Whoops. You've dropped a clanger there with wild assumptions. However, one part of your post I have to admit you've got spot on. The bit where you say you haven't a clue.

Lovely, lovely stuff.

I loved the place, and even made friends there

Are you saying, I can't be anti-Scottish mate, some of my best are Scottish.

Bloke down the pub.....