Back him or sack him

[Hugo Rune]

I think TB will stick with SH for the foreseeable future and possibly bring in the striker we need to turn he corner or perhaps Benno will provide our existiong strikers with the chances.

Interesting to note Barnes was not on the bench for Burnley yesterday, injured, suspended or just dropped.

Hopefully SH has just one game to prove himself, no win = no Sami on Tuesday. Barnes is the 5th choice striker at Burnley so it shouldn't come as a surprise when he misses out. If you are inferring we should bring him back on loan, I disagree. We need to score goals, he was never prolific.

 

[BensGrandad]

Hopefully SH has just one game to prove himself, no win = no Sami on Tuesday. Barnes is the 5th choice striker at Burnley so it shouldn't come as a surprise when he misses out. If you are inferring we should bring him back on loan, I disagree. We need to score goals, he was never prolific.

It was a tongue in cheek possible suggestion.

 

[ewe2]

Even under Gus and Garcia ,we were not the greatest goalscorers. However we were very sound in defense.....But now the balance has tipped,albeit,only slightly,where as now we are losing by the odd goal and not winning by it.Sammi will know this and understand the consequences ,these 2 home games need 6 points,and the team 150 %committed or IMO Sammi will be sacked.

 

[B.W.]

I will remain Team Fence, partly for your reasons.
But also what do people expect a new manager to do?

Hyypia is playing the hand he's been dealt.
Once again we've been beaten by an odd goal.
We had chances but not enough presence to put them away.

We are supposed to play fast counter attacking football, catching the opposition defence on their heels.
For the first time this season the midfield played THE assist pass, and guess what:-

WE SCORED BOTH TIMES.

Sami's not a bad manager.
We're not a bad team.
Give him time and one or two players of quality and things should look very different.

You really have no discernable understanding of our plight. In response to your last 3 nuggets of 'wisdom':
He is.
We are.
Give Sami his P45 now, replace him with a manager who no longer needs to wear 'L' plates, back this new manager in Jan, and we MAY just get out of this mess.

 

[B.W.]

I think TB will stick with SH for the foreseeable future and possibly bring in the striker we need to turn he corner or perhaps Benno will provide our existiong strikers with the chances.

Interesting to note Barnes was not on the bench for Burnley yesterday, injured, suspended or just dropped.

Or just not a Prem striker. Actually, he's an average Championship one at best.

 

[Stat Brother]

You really have no discernable understanding of our plight. In response to your last 3 nuggets of 'wisdom':
He is.
We are.
Give Sami his P45 now, replace him with a manager who no longer needs to wear 'L' plates, back this new manager in Jan, and we MAY just get out of this mess.

None of us have any discernible understanding of our plight, because we are not privy to all the relevant information.

The question is how do you want to change the current fortunes?

Blow everything up, take a massive financial hit, the bulk of which won't be on the playing staff.
Or
Look at the positives, granted not as many as we'd like, and make the investment on a drawing/odd goal losing team to turn those frowns upside down.


If our midfield had played more that 2 through, all season, onto our on rushing forwards, we wouldn't be having this conversation now.

 

[Springal]

Tony Bloom needs to come out, tell the fans we are in a cost cutting few seasons, we'll be sticking with Hyypia has he is happy with the clubs recruitment policies and budgets blah blah blah. It does feel like the board are being very dishonest with us in terms of expectations. Bloom himself, said judge our business by September… and that business looks very poor

 

[wigman]

Sami needs to be shown the door,
Yes it will cost to do so, but failing to do so could cost us more in lost st renewals and revenue.

 

[B.W.]

None of us have any discernible understanding of our plight, because we are not privy to all the relevant information.

The question is how do you want to change the current fortunes?

Blow everything up, take a massive financial hit, the bulk of which won't be on the playing staff.
Or
Look at the positives, granted not as many as we'd like, and make the investment on a drawing/odd goal losing team to turn those frowns upside down.


If our midfield had played more that 2 through, all season, onto our on rushing forwards, we wouldn't be having this conversation now.

But...

Sami is not learning from his mistakes. He seems to be extremely stubborn in pursuing his favoured tactics that clearly aren't working. Full-backs as wingers. Wingers inside = massive gaps in our defence.
If anything, the performances are getting worse and worse (although, I admit, B'muff was better than the previous couple of games).
Why do you think sticking with Sami whilst we drift closer and closer to the relegation zone is the way out of this mess?
We may well suffer financially from sacking Finland's answer to Coco the Clown, but we will lose a lot more money if we go down.

 

[Stat Brother]

But...

Sami is not learning from his mistakes. He seems to be extremely stubborn in pursuing his favoured tactics that clearly aren't working. Full-backs as wingers. Wingers inside = massive gaps in our defence.
If anything, the performances are getting worse and worse (although, I admit, B'muff was better than the previous couple of games).
Why do you think sticking with Sami whilst we drift closer and closer to the relegation zone is the way out of this mess?
We may well suffer financially from sacking Finland's answer to Coco the Clown, but we will lose a lot more money if we go down.

Because we are not getting dicked week in week out.

There is only one winger at the club, and he only played 20 minutes last night.

I put the performances v 'Boro down to Sami getting schooled by their manager, and the performance v Rotherham down to our lack of confidence and goal shyness.
The other team get paid too.

Whereas v Spurs Sami changed his tactics (not the actions of a stubborn man) and once again our lack of fire power was there for all to see.

Is that Sami's fault?

Why blow the whole thing up, when with a striker and 'assist' man things could/should be looking a lot better.
A new manager isn't overrun with options until January, and we're not completely broken.

There must be some cash to spend, come the 1st of February (Ideally 2nd of January) we'll know exactly who's to 'blame' for the current failings at the club.

 

[symyjym]

But...

Sami is not learning from his mistakes. He seems to be extremely stubborn in pursuing his favoured tactics that clearly aren't working. Full-backs as wingers. Wingers inside = massive gaps in our defence.
If anything, the performances are getting worse and worse (although, I admit, B'muff was better than the previous couple of games).
Why do you think sticking with Sami whilst we drift closer and closer to the relegation zone is the way out of this mess?
We may well suffer financially from sacking Finland's answer to Coco the Clown, but we will lose a lot more money if we go down.

It's the players making mistakes, not Sami.

Anyone who advocates the sack, must mean that they want Nathan Jones to take over as caretaker manager, whilst we spend the next 3 weeks looking for a new manager, who will then take 2 months teaching the players his way of playing.

Sami has come into the most ill prepared club for this season, mostly a new team and he has a mighty task at hand. I would much rather the players got used to Sami's system, than playing it safe because no one learns anything from that.

Yesterday, apart from the obvious player mistakes, not tactical mistakes, we actually looked like a team who were digging in for each other. I actually really enjoyed the game and we scored two great goals. Changing a manager now would put us back, not take us forward.

But hey if you think that is the solution, fair enough, it won't happen anyway. And even if we did get relegated I would back Sami to get us back up again.

 

[B.W.]

It's the players making mistakes, not Sami.

Anyone who advocates the sack, must mean that they want Nathan Jones to take over as caretaker manager, whilst we spend the next 3 weeks looking for a new manager, who will then take 2 months teaching the players his way of playing.

Sami has come into the most ill prepared club for this season, mostly a new team and he has a mighty task at hand. I would much rather the players got used to Sami's system, than playing it safe because no one learns anything from that.

Yesterday, apart from the obvious player mistakes, not tactical mistakes, we actually looked like a team who were digging in for each other. I actually really enjoyed the game and we scored two great goals. Changing a manager now would put us back, not take us forward.

But hey if you think that is the solution, fair enough, it won't happen anyway. And even if we did get relegated I would back Sami to get us back up again.

To each their own, but...

The alternative is definitely not Jones, who should have gone with Oscar. The alternative is an experienced Championship manager who actually knows what he is doing in our league. Plenty of them out of work. Plenty WOULD do a far better job than Sami. Disagree with your timescales to turn things around too. Apart from the inevitable new manager boost, a manager who actually knows what he is doing, rather than one who is still so obviously learning the ropes would have an almost immediate impact.

If you go down, there is absolutely no guarantee you would bounce back. You WILL lose your best players, plenty of the fan base = revenue, and so on.

It is precisely because Tony knows we can't afford to go down, that he will sack Sami.

 

[Guinness Boy]

It's the players making mistakes, not Sami.

Anyone who advocates the sack, must mean that they want Nathan Jones to take over as caretaker manager, whilst we spend the next 3 weeks looking for a new manager, who will then take 2 months teaching the players his way of playing.

Sami has come into the most ill prepared club for this season, mostly a new team and he has a mighty task at hand. I would much rather the players got used to Sami's system, than playing it safe because no one learns anything from that.

Yesterday, apart from the obvious player mistakes, not tactical mistakes, we actually looked like a team who were digging in for each other. I actually really enjoyed the game and we scored two great goals. Changing a manager now would put us back, not take us forward.

But hey if you think that is the solution, fair enough, it won't happen anyway. And even if we did get relegated I would back Sami to get us back up again.

Why would it take three weeks? If you go to the other extreme - Watford - they realised a mistake and acted on it within a week. They are currently top. I'm not suggesting we give Jones the job then fire him a week later. I'm suggesting that IF (and only if) TB was minded to give Sami the tin tack he'd probably only do it when he had a cast iron replacement lined up. Remember the last two times we have been blindsided by our manager / head coach. If there was a sacking it would, at last, be on our terms.

 

[neilbard]

Back him to be sacked!

 

[Steve.S]

It's the players making mistakes, not Sami.

Anyone who advocates the sack, must mean that they want Nathan Jones to take over as caretaker manager, whilst we spend the next 3 weeks looking for a new manager, who will then take 2 months teaching the players his way of playing.

Sami has come into the most ill prepared club for this season, mostly a new team and he has a mighty task at hand. I would much rather the players got used to Sami's system, than playing it safe because no one learns anything from that.

Yesterday, apart from the obvious player mistakes, not tactical mistakes, we actually looked like a team who were digging in for each other. I actually really enjoyed the game and we scored two great goals. Changing a manager now would put us back, not take us forward.

But hey if you think that is the solution, fair enough, it won't happen anyway. And even if we did get relegated I would back Sami to get us back up again.

Players are making mistakes because of the system they are playing. Mistakes were made yesterday howeve, we are not at the bottom end of the table because of yesterday. We are at the bottom because for most of our matches, we are playing poor football. Yes we do also play some good football, but with the same results, not winning.
Are players making mistakes, because they are rubbish,not capable of playing the system or just because they have not faith in the manager, which ever it is, the buck stops with Sami, therefore bin him

 

[symyjym]

To each their own, but...

The alternative is definitely not Jones, who should have gone with Oscar. The alternative is an experienced Championship manager who actually knows what he is doing in our league. Plenty of them out of work. Plenty WOULD do a far better job than Sami. Disagree with your timescales to turn things around too. Apart from the inevitable new manager boost, a manager who actually knows what he is doing, rather than one who is still so obviously learning the ropes would have an almost immediate impact.

If you go down, there is absolutely no guarantee you would bounce back. You WILL lose your best players, plenty of the fan base = revenue, and so on.

It is precisely because Tony knows we can't afford to go down, that he will sack Sami.

I didn't say that the alternative was Jones, I said if Sami was sacked, Nathan Jones would become caretaker manager until a new manager is found. I was describing the sequence of events from the knee jerk sacking reaction that you are proposing.

How long does a new manager need to influence another style of play and settle in? You make it sound like it will be as easy as making a Pot Noodle meal.

"inevitable new manager boost" is clearly a simplistic view and is far from an accurate conclusion

If we continue to play in the same manner that we did yesterday, we will be fine and I wouldn't want to take the bigger risk of starting again with a new guy.

 

[symyjym]

Why would it take three weeks? If you go to the other extreme - Watford - they realised a mistake and acted on it within a week. They are currently top. I'm not suggesting we give Jones the job then fire him a week later. I'm suggesting that IF (and only if) TB was minded to give Sami the tin tack he'd probably only do it when he had a cast iron replacement lined up. Remember the last two times we have been blindsided by our manager / head coach. If there was a sacking it would, at last, be on our terms.

You cannot compare the Watford circumstances to ours, and when there is a vacancy at a club, with settled players and sitting at the top end of the table, it is not hard to find a suitable replacement. I like Sami and appreciate his task in hand because we were the weakest Championship squad at the start of the season.

I am confident that we will turn that corner, but it was always going to be a slow start, no matter who came in. We have to accept that we are going through a learning curve, it was always going to be that. Storming the league this season was always pure fantasy.

 

[symyjym]

Players are making mistakes because of the system they are playing. Mistakes were made yesterday howeve, we are not at the bottom end of the table because of yesterday. We are at the bottom because for most of our matches, we are playing poor football. Yes we do also play some good football, but with the same results, not winning.
Are players making mistakes, because they are rubbish,not capable of playing the system or just because they have not faith in the manager, which ever it is, the buck stops with Sami, therefore bin him

I love it when people give a choice of two of their own conclusions. Clearly there are no other factors to consider

 

[The Fifth Column]

Tony Bloom needs to come out, tell the fans we are in a cost cutting few seasons, we'll be sticking with Hyypia has he is happy with the clubs recruitment policies and budgets blah blah blah. It does feel like the board are being very dishonest with us in terms of expectations. Bloom himself, said judge our business by September… and that business looks very poor

Judging it in November and it looks fcking sh1t.

 

[BensGrandad]

It was said on NSC that SH was 5th choice and the 4 ahead of him still havent got a job so must assume that was possibly Clark Hughton Sherwood and McKay in whatever order so in the very unlikely event that TB sacks SH we shoulc be able to recruit somebody very quickly, in fact within about 24 hours. Just make sure its not the horrible little man Billy Davies ex Forest.