[News] Baby murder nurse case

[dazzer6666]

Anyone who has been a whistle blower knows that the system is stacked against you.

Exactly what I was alluding to above…….

 

[dazzer6666]

appear to have misspelt negligence. i cant see how it's anything else to repeatedly hide and deflect from obvious deficiencies in a department. management should have wanted to investigate and understand why the anomolies were happening. automatic process should have kicked in, the fact it didnt or doesnt appear to exist means cultural problems, no one can be at fault, blame no one, nothing happend.

100% this.

 

[Goldstone Guy]

I think it's common knowledge amongst NHS doctors that becoming a whistleblower in the NHS (not sure about other organisations) will be incredibly stressful for that individual for months to years, and possibly career ending (look up Dr Chris Day). This tragic, horrible case is another example highlighting how the system does everything it can to intimidate staff into not whistleblowing. The government have created at least organisation to help this intimidation but I don't want to put details in writing as I don't want to get myself into trouble. And yet Jeremy Hunt when Health secretary used to bang on about how important it was to support whistleblowers in the NHS - all lies.

 

[beorhthelm]

I think it's common knowledge amongst NHS doctors that becoming a whistleblower in the NHS (not sure about other organisations) will be incredibly stressful for that individual for months to years, and possibly career ending (look up Dr Chris Day). This tragic, horrible case is another example highlighting how the system does everything it can to intimidate staff into not whistleblowing. The government have created at least organisation to help this intimidation but I don't want to put details in writing as I don't want to get myself into trouble. And yet Jeremy Hunt when Health secretary used to bang on about how important it was to support whistleblowers in the NHS - all lies.

whistleblowing doesnt seem to be the problem here. doctors did report issues. the management failed to follow up or covered up. there is clearly institutional problems that prevent management from accepting malpractice or simply acknowledging poor performance and responding to it. wasnt there similar issues at Alder Hey and another hospital? repeated anomolies in care outcomes that managment should have acted upon.

 

[Goldstone Guy]

whistleblowing doesnt seem to be the problem here. doctors did report issues. the management failed to follow up or covered up. there is clearly institutional problems that prevent management from accepting malpractice or simply acknowledging poor performance and responding to it. wasnt there similar issues at Alder Hey and another hospital? repeated anomolies in care outcomes that managment should have acted upon.

Yes you're right, this case wasn't a failure to whistleblow (but the management did appear to try to prevent the whistleblowing).

 

[Cheshire Cat]

whistleblowing doesnt seem to be the problem here. doctors did report issues. the management failed to follow up or covered up. there is clearly institutional problems that prevent management from accepting malpractice or simply acknowledging poor performance and responding to it. wasnt there similar issues at Alder Hey and another hospital? repeated anomolies in care outcomes that managment should have acted upon.

That's not institutional or systemic failure.

It's just shit management by over-promoted incompetent bullies.

 

[Springal]

Agreed re NHS. I had a relative that had to move trusts due to concerns she raised which were swept over.

I was going to say I felt sorry for her family, but now we know a bit more about her family life and her mums reaction when she was arrested, it was a bit odd

 

[zefarelly]

That's not institutional or systemic failure.

It's just shit management by over-promoted incompetent bullies.

This

The NHS was designed to care and help.

Never was it, nor should it, ever be used as a tool for business, performance or profit.

performance in care should be a given.

Heads need to roll on a massive scale, most of them blue blooded , and some of the originators of this are probably mumbling incoherantly pissed in the house of lords Now. Thatchers legacy at work again. C****

and relax.

 

[clapham_gull]

Anyone who has been a whistle blower knows that the system is stacked against you.

Huge problem with public sector institutions and often inside Unions. Those who are left leaning really need to accept that the institutions they want to protect are often deeply rotten inside with hierarchies that look after themselves and ignore bad behaviour.

I am very left leaning but acknowledge the fact that these institutions require drastic reform in terms of whistleblowing.

"Mediation" is often used as a tool to shut accusers up.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

whistleblowing doesnt seem to be the problem here. doctors did report issues. the management failed to follow up or covered up. there is clearly institutional problems that prevent management from accepting malpractice or simply acknowledging poor performance and responding to it. wasnt there similar issues at Alder Hey and another hospital? repeated anomolies in care outcomes that managment should have acted upon.

The whistleblowers were threatened.

According to the doctor's account, the CEO also insisted the consultants apologise to Letby and warned them that a line had been drawn and there would be "consequences" if they crossed it.

 

[junior]

Interesting thought...

This thread has highlighted that there has been numerous high profile doctor/nurse killers in recent history. Seriel killers who acted in abhorrent criminal ways.

There's been several high profile police officer convictions for abhorrent crimes in recent history.

It feels like there is a general distrust in the police from the public, media and outspoken politicians with an anti-police agenda, yet not a hint of towards the health service.

Those of rational thinking will know that in both organisations and professions, the corrupt and criminal individuals will be a tiny minority with the vast majority being upstanding, law abiding trustworthy individuals who do their honest best for the population they serve.

You never seem to hear any anti doctor/nurse/health service rhetoric in the mainstream or social media.

 

[Sheebo]

A little plus side to this mental case where a lady was clearly totally unwell tbh. We had to spend a small amount of time relatively - 2 weeks - with our newborn who was diddy as anything in the neo natal ward at Pembury last year (yes I am not happy she was born in Kent but she’s a Sussex girl and BHA through and through already). The staff were absolutely amazing. Made me consider my inane job that realistically helps nobody in the great scheme of things. Cool as anything, totally lovely humans. Would send us videos of her when she want there. It was horrible seeing our child living in an incubator for a few weeks but we were also conscious there’s 100 worse things in life. The staff were absolutely lovely people. I owe my daughters life to the care and love of these people. A tough environment to be in but amazing people there to help. This lady was clearly ill and I wouldn’t want anyone to think at all negatively of the amazing people in neo natal units.


PS - We beat Spurs 2-1 and Trossard (I think) scored as my dad was meeting his granddaughter in there for the first time. Limited people allowed in there so I gently whispered it to him whilst he was visiting her - haha

She’s fine now and Brighton through and through - obviously the one thing she has no choice in ever

 

[El Presidente]

You never seem to hear any anti doctor/nurse/health service rhetoric in the mainstream or social media.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

whistleblowing doesnt seem to be the problem here. doctors did report issues. the management failed to follow up or covered up. there is clearly institutional problems that prevent management from accepting malpractice or simply acknowledging poor performance and responding to it. wasnt there similar issues at Alder Hey and another hospital? repeated anomolies in care outcomes that managment should have acted upon.

Yep. 'Emails cease now' was senior management's response to concerned consultants. Just watching this on the news now. Absolute disgrace. The kids who survived have been damaged (by acute hypoglycemia due to insulin injections, etc).

On a much lower scale, where I work there is arguable institutional negligence over marking and assessment, with the same sort of rude orders to cease and desist when any of us have the temerity to complain. And I think where I work is largely decent.

Back to the nurse. Lessons definitely have not been learned. That's for sure.

 

[Weststander]

These are the three senior managers who ignored the paediatricians serious concerns as babies were unexpectedly dying, them overrode them, compelling them all to sign an apology to Letby, finally reinstating her leading to further murders. Kelly remains in senior NHS director of nursing roles.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Interesting thought...

This thread has highlighted that there has been numerous high profile doctor/nurse killers in recent history. Seriel killers who acted in abhorrent criminal ways.

There's been several high profile police officer convictions for abhorrent crimes in recent history.

It feels like there is a general distrust in the police from the public, media and outspoken politicians with an anti-police agenda, yet not a hint of towards the health service.

Those of rational thinking will know that in both organisations and professions, the corrupt and criminal individuals will be a tiny minority with the vast majority being upstanding, law abiding trustworthy individuals who do their honest best for the population they serve.

You never seem to hear any anti doctor/nurse/health service rhetoric in the mainstream or social media.

There was an anti NHS narrative in parts of the Nicky Campbell phone in this morning. This nurse somehow shows some that the NHS 'cannot be trusted'. 'Questions are being asked' about whether we 'can trust the NHS'. I found this rather disturbing.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

These are the three senior managers who ignored the paediatricians serious concerns as babies were unexpectedly dying, them overrode them, compelling them all to sign an apology to Letby, finally reinstating her leading to further murders. Kelly remains in senior NHS director of nursing roles.

View attachment 165190

They should be in prison. And the rubric that employed them dismantled.

 

[Weststander]

They should be in prison. And the rubric that employed them dismantled.

When the direct actions of seniors managers in public services or businesses lead or fail to prevent deaths or similar, shirley there should be all of criminal law, fiscal (public sector pensions) and disciplinary consequences. Corporate manslaughter where directors of private companies can face criminal convictions seem very rare. Can’t think of NHS senior managers ever being done.

 

[ManOfSussex]

A little plus side to this mental case where a lady was clearly totally unwell tbh. We had to spend a small amount of time relatively - 2 weeks - with our newborn who was diddy as anything in the neo natal ward at Pembury last year (yes I am not happy she was born in Kent but she’s a Sussex girl and BHA through and through already). The staff were absolutely amazing. Made me consider my inane job that realistically helps nobody in the great scheme of things. Cool as anything, totally lovely humans. Would send us videos of her when she want there. It was horrible seeing our child living in an incubator for a few weeks but we were also conscious there’s 100 worse things in life. The staff were absolutely lovely people. I owe my daughters life to the care and love of these people. A tough environment to be in but amazing people there to help. This lady was clearly ill and I wouldn’t want anyone to think at all negatively of the amazing people in neo natal units.


PS - We beat Spurs 2-1 and Trossard (I think) scored as my dad was meeting his granddaughter in there for the first time. Limited people allowed in there so I gently whispered it to him whilst he was visiting her - haha

She’s fine now and Brighton through and through - obviously the one thing she has no choice in ever

An old pub acquaintance of mine and fellow Hastings boy Michael Yardy was also Pembury born. Despite that set-back of which he had no control over either, he captained his county of Sussex at cricket, played for England, won the County Championship 3 times for the Martlets, won the T20 blast, the Pro 40 and played in the world T20 final in Barbados in 2010 when England won. Your daughter will be fine.

 

[Sheebo]

An old pub acquaintance of mine and fellow Hastings boy Michael Yardy was also Pembury born. Despite that set-back of which he had no control over either, he captained his county of Sussex at cricket, played for England, won the County Championship 3 times for the Martlets, won the T20 blast, the Pro 40 and played in the world T20 final in Barbados in 2010 when England won. Your daughter will be fine.

Thank you mate. It was a pathetic little niggle of mine. After seeing the care and life saving support the little legend got (she had no bum / body - just a weird 3lbs head with legs ) that silly niggle soon went. Absolutely fantastic people who do way more for the world that me. A sobering moment in our lives!