[News] Baby murder nurse case

[vegster]

It's a horrible story, however, speculation before the trial is pointless. Let it be dealt with in court first before possibly ruining the court case.

 

[marlowe]

Good points.

However not all evil people are psychopaths and not all psychopaths are evil. Equally a lot of infamous serial killers are wrongly regarded as psychopaths.....

Indeed, the most iconic fictional representation of that label, and one which many people inevitably came to associate with that term at the time, is Norman Bates as depicted in Hitchcock's film "Psycho".

Ironically Norman, despite the film's title, doesn't fit the profile of what is considered to be a psychopathic (or narcissistic) personality disorder. It is more likely he suffers from a multiple personality disorder, as well as a few other issues obviously, but psychopathy not being one of them.

 

[GT49er]

I understand why the OP is askance about this.

Here is my take.

1. It isn't muslimy
2. It isn't Brexitty
3. She's white
4. Nothing to see here.

Not sure that argument stands up too well, considering that:

1. Sutcliffe wasn't muslimy
2. Sutcliffe wasn't Brexity
3. Sutcliffe was white
4. yet apparently there's plenty to see here.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Indeed, the most iconic fictional representation of that label, and one which many people inevitably came to associate with that term at the time, is Norman Bates as depicted in Hitchcock's film "Psycho".

Ironically Norman, despite the film's title, doesn't fit the profile of what is considered to be a psychopathic (or narcissistic) personality disorder. It is more likely he suffers from a multiple personality disorder, as well as a few other issues obviously, but psychopathy not being one of them.

Indeed. Lots of psychopaths in my game (medical research). One is particularly charming. They don't kill anyone (literally or metaphorically) unless the (feel they) have to.

The (struggling for a collective noun, here) dung heap of run-of-the-mill nasty bully causes more damage across the piece. And the most prevalent victim is the bully's own kids.

Read any RD Laing? All the rage when I was an undergrad. The divided self, etc. All very plausible to my 18 year old self, but later dismissed as baseless and dangerous, so I gather. What a shit of a man, too. Funny old world.

 

[Swansman]

Indeed. Lots of psychopaths in my game (medical research). One is particularly charming. They don't kill anyone (literally or metaphorically) unless the (feel they) have to.

A "friend of mine" thinks it is a bit odd that you know so much about the killing habits of your "particularly charming colleague".

 

[Sheebo]

I understand why the OP is askance about this.

Here is my take.

1. It isn't muslimy
2. It isn't Brexitty
3. She's white
4. Nothing to see here.

Can’t agree with point 3 H tbh. Or any of that including the OP’s post. There’s very little info on it so nothing to discuss, that’s the reason why. Your post has turned the thread into a race binfest as someone but back very hard. Gender and race have 0 bearing on any murder case for 99% of NSC I assure you.

 

[Sheebo]

You missed the most important one........the dead babies were white. Dead black babies matter much more, and even more so if they can be photographed (say) washed up on a coastline.

Had they been black we would have a campaign by footballers, tv celebrities, tv specials, a cenotaph, and football matches would be proceeded by the players curling up in a foetal position on the pitch as a sign of solidarity.

I’m disappointed, I thought you knew better.

You have no idea of the race of the poor dead babies! None! So your post, regardless of freedom of speech, is based on nothing and out of the blue to a vast degree.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

A "friend of mine" thinks it is a bit odd that you know so much about the killing habits of your "particularly charming colleague".

One of my (nice) colleagues (and a pal of longstanding) told me nearly 40 years ago that a successful psychopath will kill only when absolutely necessary, because there are far less risky ways of acquiring undeserved riches and rewards. It is the ****ing idiot psychopath who kills on a whim. And contrary to the impression given by the media, people who are primarily motivated by a desire to kill are very rare. Unfortunately every eye-catching killing will be lovingly dissected by the media.

When my son was small I was in constant turmoil over the media reports of child killers. I could barely sleep at times. My view now is that unless publicity will help catch a killer or warn the public of a danger this stuff should be kept out of the media, certainly off the front page, and reported after the fact in succinct and sober fashion.

The laws changed here to stop all media reporting between an arrest and a trial verdict. This is because cases have collapsed owing to media revelations. I undersnd the instinct to have sated one's morbid curiosity, but it isn't right, and it isn't a right, thankfully.

 

[Stat Brother]

Wow. That took a bit of time type out too, and not once did you think, nah, that's a bit much, *delete*

First thing this morning, I decided this wasn't the thread to call out the court artist as a budding Picasso.

All seems rather tame now.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You have no idea of the race of the poor dead babies! None! So your post, regardless of freedom of speech, is based on nothing and out of the blue to a vast degree.

Indeed.

I also think you may have misunderstood my original post somewhat. My quip was probably inappropriate under the circumstances, but I didn't mean what you appear to have thought I meant. I was having a dig at those (one in particular who has now been barred from NSC for good) who are all over any story about any muslim or black person committing any crime anywhere in the world, but who show no interest in any crime committed by people who look like them or share their politics. Cheapshot, I admit, and probably not in the best possible taste. Sometimes my judgement on these issues is not the best. Several poster on this thread certainly understood my point, though.

All the best.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I can understand why my fellow mod started this thread but it went from 0 to cesspool in an incredibly short time.

Perhaps we should all just agree that the killing of babies, whatever their race, is the lowest of the low and that we hope the accused has a fair trial in accordance with the law.

 

[The Clamp]

Only just read the story. What an incredibly sad situation. So many lives ruined. Very sad.

 

[albionalbino]

I’ve no idea why this particular case has generated so little reaction on NSC.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-54930233

Is it due to becoming desensitised to such things? That seems improbable given that the charge is the murder of eight babies and attempt to do the same to ten more.

Is it because the story has become squeezed by personality politics (Trump, Cummings) and events? (Someone dropping out of Strictly had more air time on the BBC 6pm news last night than this case).

It’s not a criticism of anyone here, but given the (rightful) headlines in relation to the death of Peter Sutcliffe and the terrible things he did this case seems to have slipped under the radar and provoke little reaction.

So you wondered why no one had started this thread? Maybe you were playing at agent provocateur or maybe because everyone except you thought a post like Cunning Fergus's would materialise. Or maybe you thought that too... but went ahead regardless.

 

[vegster]

I can understand why my fellow mod started this thread but it went from 0 to cesspool in an incredibly short time.

Perhaps we should all just agree that the killing of babies, whatever their race, is the lowest of the low and that we hope the accused has a fair trial in accordance with the law.

Pretty much this. Sadly, some bad people manage to manoeuvre themselves in to a position where they can do some pretty nasty things while they are in a position of trust, it happens and will sadly keep happening simply because 99.99% of us conform to the norms of human behaviour and that .01% take advantage of that. Lets hope she gets a fair trial and justice is done.

 

[pastafarian]

I understand why the OP is askance about this.

Here is my take.

1. It isn't muslimy
2. It isn't Brexitty
3. She's white
4. Nothing to see here.

Utterly ridiculous post and pathetically typical

You missed the most important one........the dead babies were white. Dead black babies matter much more, and even more so if they can be photographed (say) washed up on a coastline.

Had they been black we would have a campaign by footballers, tv celebrities, tv specials, a cenotaph, and football matches would be proceeded by the players curling up in a foetal position on the pitch as a sign of solidarity.

I’m disappointed, I thought you knew better.

someone responds and escalates .......... ridiculing original post.


usual suspects wet the bed and ignore the original stupid cretin post.

 

[Poojah]

It’s an incredibly sad case, that’s for sure - I will always remember watching on helplessly as NHS doctors and nurses raced to save the lives of my son and daughter during their respective births. My son didn’t take his first breath for over seven minutes after his delivery, whilst my little girl suffered shoulder dystocia, where the baby’s head is delivered but shoulder remains lodged in the birth canal. On both occasions, the care they received was outstanding and my children literally owe their lives to them.

That’s what makes this case so sad and upsetting for me - the idea than someone in the room on those days could have been on the ‘opposite team’ doesn’t bear thinking about.

But someone earlier mentioned the case of Rebecca Leighton, whose own life was destroyed by the press after being charged with the killing of several of her patients, only for it later to be discovered it was in fact the work of someone else entirely. I think therefore, it’s best not to cast judgement until the case has run its course.

I have to admit, I’ve wrestled with the idea that I may subconsciously be giving her that benefit of the doubt because she doesn’t ‘look like’ someone whodunnit - I don’t know what people who commit such evil acts do look like but I do have to wonder whether I’d take a different stance if she had unkempt, scraggy hair and mad staring eyes. But then the story of Christopher Jeffries is another case which highlights how that kind of assassination by media can turn out.

 

[CheeseRolls]

It’s an incredibly sad case, that’s for sure - I will always remember watching on helplessly as NHS doctors and nurses raced to save the lives of my son and daughter during their respective births. My son didn’t take his first breath for over seven minutes after his delivery, whilst my little girl suffered shoulder dystocia, where the baby’s head is delivered but shoulder remains lodged in the birth canal. On both occasions, the care they received was outstanding and my children literally owe their lives to them.

That’s what makes this case so sad and upsetting for me - the idea than someone in the room on those days could have been on the ‘opposite team’ doesn’t bear thinking about.

But someone earlier mentioned the case of Rebecca Leighton, whose own life was destroyed by the press after being charged with the killing of several of her patients, only for it later to be discovered it was in fact the work of someone else entirely. I think therefore, it’s best not to cast judgement until the case has run its course.

I have to admit, I’ve wrestled with the idea that I may subconsciously be giving her that benefit of the doubt because she doesn’t ‘look like’ someone whodunnit - I don’t know what people who commit such evil acts do look like but I do have to wonder whether I’d take a different stance if she had unkempt, scraggy hair and mad staring eyes. But then the story of Christopher Jeffries is another case which highlights how that kind of assassination by media can turn out.

Thank you for putting this back on topic. Incredibly sensitive subject.

 

[rogersix]

Utterly ridiculous post and pathetically typical



someone responds and escalates .......... ridiculing original post.


usual suspects wet the bed and ignore the original stupid cretin post.

A bit wrong headed

 

[Poojah]

Thank you for putting this back on topic. Incredibly sensitive subject.

Sensitive indeed, and it’s easy for this story to become all about the perpetrator instead of the babies be and their parents.

My son’s birth was a horrific ordeal (and I say that as a mere spectator, of course it was much worse for my wife). There were multiple problems throughout the labour; at one point we had to wait nearly an hour for the results of a blood test taken from his scalp to determine whether he had suffered oxygen deprivation (and therefore brain damage). Thankfully the test results came back ok, but I was physically sick twice during that wait.

When he was eventually delivered in emergency theatre, assisted by forceps, the midwife very briefly held him up to me. I had only two immediate thoughts:

1. “Wow, it’s a boy”. For some reason I was adamant he was going to be a girl.

2. “It’s such a shame he’s dead”. He was this grey-ish, purple colour, totally lifeless with a sort of green mucus spewing from his little mouth. Apologies if that’s graphic - it’s just an incredibly vivid image that is etched into my mind, and one I will take to the grave with me.

They took him to a table at the side of the room, and started giving him oxygen and slapping his cheeks. I assumed they were simply going through the motions so they could at least say “we did all we could”. I had accepted his demise.

In those five minutes or so, the longest of my life, I had a short, sharp taste of what it feels like to lose a baby and I can’t think of an emotion I’ve experienced that comes close it. It’s a feeling that sits deep, deep in the pit of your stomach. Absolutely bewildering.

Miraculously, they brought him back. I use that word because it’s exactly how it felt - like he’d risen from the dead. I still don’t know how they did it.

The parents affected in this case never got the reprieve of such a miracle. To lose their baby, then discover their death may have been not only avoidable but deliberate must be absolute, pure, unrelenting hell. How are you ever meant to get over that. Why didn’t I see what was going on? Why didn’t I stop them? Of course, when you are in that situation (by which I mean a ‘complicated’ birth) you are little more than a confused bystander.

My heart goes out to anyone affected by this. Whatever the outcome of this case, I hope they get to feel at least a modicum of relief in that someone is brought to justice. Assuming of course there is foul play at hand here - I don’t think we know enough to be absolutely certain of that.

 

[portslade seagull]

I just cannot understand how a nurse would want to do this. Those poor parents. Me and Mrs PS lost a baby girl over 30yrs ago, it still hurts and brings a tear to my eye thinking about it