[Cricket] Azeem Rafiq

[pb21]

It is interesting isn't it.

It's OK to call him a paki and everything he has said a about systematic racism cos he sent vulgar text messages.

As we all know two wrongs make a right.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

The fact that you quote and put any faith in something put out by that organisation makes any discussion with you around it pointless.

Not sure I'd use the phrase "thank him", but I agree with your overall point. What he has exposed is completely separate from him increasingly looking like a complete cock and racist himself in his younger years. I expect there is more to come out.

I spoke to an ex pro cricketer the other day in a very insightful conversation. I obviously can't and won't go into specifics on here but I think your last line of more to come is very likely to be true as it sounds like a few are queuing to put the boot in. Personally, I think its a shame as it will let some of the entrenched views off the hook as and when it comes about. Another personal point of view is the biggest wedge in cricket is the drinking culture.

 

[clapham_gull]

Personally, I think its a shame as it will let some of the entrenched views off the hook as and when it comes about.

Yep, that's been my worry too.

 

[Da Man Clay]

I don't think it was racist. This is the way the word gets diluted. It was a racial generalisation based on his perceived experience. He's been in the game a long time. This is part of my problem.

Around the world you'll here people say 'English are like this' or 'Indians are like that'.

My Dad was in the navy, he always made a lot of generalisations about other cultures. It's what people do. I don't have a problem with it as long as its natural context doesn't have an underbelly of hostility or deliberate discord. Bumble was forced to apologise for something he believes is correct when he should either be challenged to give examples or just left with his opinions.

I've often bemoaned the lack of Asian talent coming through the system. I don't even notice the colour of a player's skin when he plays for England. I was delighted when Hameed made his half ton against India last summer. I love seeing diverse representation at the highest levels (or any level). My opinion is clean. And I think Bumble's is too. Not to say it's right, but it certainly isn't racist.

Nothing wrong with folk saying what they see, but there is much wrong when the intent and context comes from a base of discrimination or hostility. It's all about motives.

I think making a generalised statement bemoaning an entire group of people is a bit racist. It’s not ‘outright’ and outrageously racist, however, my view is it is racist nonetheless. To have someone who has been at the top of the game make those sort of statements and have those views is also damaging to the game IMO.

I love Bumble as a commentator by the way and I think the Sky team will be worse of without him - but I can’t really see him retaining his role.

 

[Eeyore]

I think making a generalised statement bemoaning an entire group of people is a bit racist. It’s not ‘outright’ and outrageously racist, however, my view is it is racist nonetheless. To have someone who has been at the top of the game make those sort of statements and have those views is also damaging to the game IMO.

I love Bumble as a commentator by the way and I think the Sky team will be worse of without him - but I can’t really see him retaining his role.

I don't feel that racial generalisations and racism are the same things. Human beings are inclined to do such things. We see it on here. 'Palace fans are this' 'Villa fans are that'. It's not suggesting inferiority or attempting to subjugate. Unless that is a clear intention.

So Bumble has made a generalisation based on his personal experience.

I feel it's important to delineate between the two, it makes issues surrounding cultural differences easier to discuss.

My experience in cricket was always that Asian teams tended to be less social after matches. (Although not always the case as my brain reminds me of one team who were the opposite). It's a cultural thing, clearly. For cultural reasons they didn't come to the pub. It's not a racist statement, it's a fact of experience. But to suggest in some way that such a statement is racist is to say that somehow in making that observation I regard them as lesser and inferior, something I would take great issue with. The reason why I would be comfortable saying that is because I know my own heart and would express it in a conversation which had no toxification..

 

[Gullzone]

I don't feel that racial generalisations and racism are the same things. Human beings are inclined to do such things. We see it on here. 'Palace fans are this' 'Villa fans are that'. It's not suggesting inferiority or attempting to subjugate. Unless that is a clear intention.

So Bumble has made a generalisation based on his personal experience.

I feel it's important to delineate between the two, it makes issues surrounding cultural differences easier to discuss.

My experience in cricket was always that Asian teams tended to be less social after matches. (Although not always the case as my brain reminds me of one team who were the opposite). It's a cultural thing, clearly. For cultural reasons they didn't come to the pub. It's not a racist statement, it's a fact of experience. But to suggest in some way that such a statement is racist is to say that somehow in making that observation I regard them as lesser and inferior, something I would take great issue with. The reason why I would be comfortable saying that is because I know my own heart and would express it in a conversation which had no toxification..

For me he has taken the view that only white men can be racist and he is ruining careers with his approach. He has himself sent anti-Semitic tweets and only owned up to it when found out/exposed he's hypocritical. I wonder what him and his mates have said in private and for years !!
He has also been photographed necking booze voluntarily so the bollocks about being forced fed red wine are irrelevant.

Once again we have organisations and institutions climbing over each other to distance themselves and this only serves to fuel the fire. I guess 12 years ago the world was a different place and a lot was said by maybe in jest but it certainly appears he himself was accountable too.

A very sad time for English cricket and tbh I feel we are on a downward spiral consuming ourselves in our own guilt when we should be looking forward. It all seems to be about money and huge payouts and to this end he's won. His own racism has been brushed because as I started with only white men can be racist - apparently !!!

 

[Bakero]

For me he has taken the view that only white men can be racist and he is ruining careers with his approach. He has himself sent anti-Semitic tweets and only owned up to it when found out/exposed he's hypocritical. I wonder what him and his mates have said in private and for years !!
He has also been photographed necking booze voluntarily so the bollocks about being forced fed red wine are irrelevant.

Once again we have organisations and institutions climbing over each other to distance themselves and this only serves to fuel the fire. I guess 12 years ago the world was a different place and a lot was said by maybe in jest but it certainly appears he himself was accountable too.

A very sad time for English cricket and tbh I feel we are on a downward spiral consuming ourselves in our own guilt when we should be looking forward. It all seems to be about money and huge payouts and to this end he's won. His own racism has been brushed because as I started with only white men can be racist - apparently !!!

 

[Wardy's twin]

For me he has taken the view that only white men can be racist and he is ruining careers with his approach. He has himself sent anti-Semitic tweets and only owned up to it when found out/exposed he's hypocritical. I wonder what him and his mates have said in private and for years !!
He has also been photographed necking booze voluntarily so the bollocks about being forced fed red wine are irrelevant.

Once again we have organisations and institutions climbing over each other to distance themselves and this only serves to fuel the fire. I guess 12 years ago the world was a different place and a lot was said by maybe in jest but it certainly appears he himself was accountable too.

A very sad time for English cricket and tbh I feel we are on a downward spiral consuming ourselves in our own guilt when we should be looking forward. It all seems to be about money and huge payouts and to this end he's won. His own racism has been brushed because as I started with only white men can be racist - apparently !!!

Can't agree that bit if he was actually 'forced '.

 

[beorhthelm]

...
He has also been photographed necking booze voluntarily so the bollocks about being forced fed red wine are irrelevant.
...

forcing anyone to drink something isnt acceptable, regardless of whether they choose to drink or not. its bullying and if done because their religion a clear prejudice.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

For me he has taken the view that only white men can be racist and he is ruining careers with his approach. He has himself sent anti-Semitic tweets and only owned up to it when found out/exposed he's hypocritical. I wonder what him and his mates have said in private and for years !!
He has also been photographed necking booze voluntarily so the bollocks about being forced fed red wine are irrelevant.

Once again we have organisations and institutions climbing over each other to distance themselves and this only serves to fuel the fire. I guess 12 years ago the world was a different place and a lot was said by maybe in jest but it certainly appears he himself was accountable too.

A very sad time for English cricket and tbh I feel we are on a downward spiral consuming ourselves in our own guilt when we should be looking forward. It all seems to be about money and huge payouts and to this end he's won. His own racism has been brushed because as I started with only white men can be racist - apparently !!!

Because the ‘only white men can be racist’ is also the argument of the ‘white lives matter’ brigade which is almost exclusively used by … racists.


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