[Cricket] Azeem Rafiq

[Grim up North]

Interesting article in the Daily Mail:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ccused-sending-creepy-texts-teenage-girl.html

 

[Husty]

Is it?

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

Interesting article in the Daily Mail:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ccused-sending-creepy-texts-teenage-girl.html

That is an oxymoron.

Predictable response from that utter disgrace of a publication.

 

[Surport Local Team]

That is an oxymoron.

Predictable response from that utter disgrace of a publication.

I think its important to analyse all information properly, to discount any information without checking just makes u look stupid! But please carry on with ur agenda!!

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

I think its important to analyse all information properly, to discount any information without checking just makes u look stupid! But please carry on with ur agenda!!

The fact that you quote and put any faith in something put out by that organisation makes any discussion with you around it pointless.

 

[Eeyore]

That is an oxymoron.

Predictable response from that utter disgrace of a publication.

I've had a real problem with this whole episode. Mainly because I love the game so much.

I've always been vocal about the need to oust racism and discrimination. But I don't feel it's wrong for people to have robust opinions. Rafiq, who was clearly wronged, appears to live in a glasshouse and throws stone instead of cricket balls these days.. David Lloyd was called out for saying something that was simply an opinion. Folk may not like it, but that's his view. It really turned me against Rafiq.

If Sky cancel Lloyd, I'll be cancelling my subscription.

The Daily Mail were always going to wait for their moment. A scummy publication, but Rafiq needs to know that if you are going to publically point the finger your hands need to be clean.(E.g the anti-Jew stuff).

 

[Da Man Clay]

I've had a real problem with this whole episode. Mainly because I love the game so much.

I've always been vocal about the need to oust racism and discrimination. But I don't feel it's wrong for people to have robust opinions. Rafiq, who was clearly wronged, appears to live in a glasshouse and throws stone instead of cricket balls these days.. David Lloyd was called out for saying something that was simply an opinion. Folk may not like it, but that's his view. It really turned me against Rafiq.

If Sky cancel Lloyd, I'll be cancelling my subscription.

The Daily Mail were always going to wait for their moment. A scummy publication, but Raiq needs to know that if you are going to publically point the finger your hand need to be clean.(E.g the anti-Jew stuff).

What Bumble said was racist. You can have an opinion - but if it’s a racist one you don’t get to then complain when you find yourself no longer employed.

You equally don’t need to be squeaky clean to point towards clear institutional racism. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Rafiq should also pay according to his actions.

 

[Surport Local Team]

The fact that you quote and put any faith in something put out by that organisation makes any discussion with you around it pointless.

The fact that u cannot look at all info objectively and u have clear bias, and disregard info with out fact checking says all u need to know about U!!! I suggest u research info across multiple source before making predisposed assumptions.

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

I've had a real problem with this whole episode. Mainly because I love the game so much.

I've always been vocal about the need to oust racism and discrimination. But I don't feel it's wrong for people to have robust opinions. Rafiq, who was clearly wronged, appears to live in a glasshouse and throws stone instead of cricket balls these days.. David Lloyd was called out for saying something that was simply an opinion. Folk may not like it, but that's his view. It really turned me against Rafiq.

If Sky cancel Lloyd, I'll be cancelling my subscription.

The Daily Mail were always going to wait for their moment. A scummy publication, but Raiq needs to know that if you are going to publically point the finger your hand need to be clean.(E.g the anti-Jew stuff).

Like you I love the game and the whole epsiode has saddened but not surprised me. Rafiq has brought a huge, wider issue than just his own personal torment out into the open now and it is something that has needed addressing for years.

Personal revenge attacks now from vile right wing organisations that are basically scared of people like Rafiq upsetting their status quo do not interest me in the slightest though.

 

[clapham_gull]

That is an oxymoron.

Predictable response from that utter disgrace of a publication.

Personal revenge attacks now from vile right wing organisations that are basically scared of people like Rafiq upsetting their status quo do not interest me in the slightest though.

The story above has been swirling around for a few days and I'd imagine the newspaper have ticked the boxes with the lawyers.

You have to separate what he has exposed from his personal character which on evidence looks horrendous at times.

That's exactly the mistake the cricket club made.

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

The fact that u cannot look at all info objectively and u have clear bias, and disregard info with out fact checking says all u need to know about U!!! I suggest u research info across multiple source before making predisposed assumptions.

You talk about looking at things objectively and not having bias or agenda’s but openly quote the Daily Mail?! Oh dear.

 

[beorhthelm]

wait, how did he have her number to text?

 

[Eeyore]

Like you I love the game and the whole epsiode has saddened but not surprised me. Rafiq has brought a huge, wider issue than just his own personal torment out into the open now and it is something that has needed addressing for years.

Personal revenge attacks now from vile right wing organisations that are basically scared of people like Rafiq upsetting their status quo do not interest me in the slightest though.

I don't disagree, and normally I simply find myself supporting every effort for change. But there is something making me really defensive about all this which I wouldn't usually be. When I say defensive, I don't mean in the sense that I would justify racist attitudes, no way.

What I think I am saying is that I simply don't trust Rafiq. I'm not suggesting he hasn't been wronged, he has. But I just have a problem with him. And when the anti-Jew stuff came out I found myself feeling quite hostile towards him, which makes me really uncomfortable, because his wider point about racism is an important one.

I just wish someone else had been the one speaking out.

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

Like you I love the game and the whole epsiode has saddened but not surprised me. Rafiq has brought a huge, wider issue than just his own personal torment out into the open now and it is something that has needed addressing for years.

Personal revenge attacks now from vile right wing organisations that are basically scared of people like Rafiq upsetting their status quo do not interest me in the slightest though.

There's a massive problem with this at Yorkshire in particular, but also in the game in general. Rafiq could ooze pure malevolence as far as I'm concerned, but if any actual beneficial change comes out of this I'll still thank him for it. One of the reasons people at Yorkshire gave for not dealing with the issue for so long was Rafiq's various perceived flaws, but they didn't alter the truth of the matter then and they don't now.

 

[Sarisbury Seagull]

There's a massive problem with this at Yorkshire in particular, but also in the game in general. Rafiq could ooze pure malevolence as far as I'm concerned, but if any actual beneficial change comes out of this I'll still thank him for it. One of the reasons people at Yorkshire gave for not dealing with the issue for so long was Rafiq's various perceived flaws, but they didn't alter the truth of the matter then and they don't now.

Spot on.

 

[clapham_gull]

There's a massive problem with this at Yorkshire in particular, but also in the game in general. Rafiq could ooze pure malevolence as far as I'm concerned, but if any actual beneficial change comes out of this I'll still thank him for it. One of the reasons people at Yorkshire gave for not dealing with the issue for so long was Rafiq's various perceived flaws, but they didn't alter the truth of the matter then and they don't now.

Not sure I'd use the phrase "thank him", but I agree with your overall point. What he has exposed is completely separate from him increasingly looking like a complete cock and racist himself in his younger years. I expect there is more to come out.

 

[A1X]

And this is why whistleblowers never come forward.

 

[DJ NOBO]

I don't disagree, and normally I simply find myself supporting every effort for change. But there is something making me really defensive about all this which I wouldn't usually be. When I say defensive, I don't mean in the sense that I would justify racist attitudes, no way.

What I think I am saying is that I simply don't trust Rafiq. I'm not suggesting he hasn't been wronged, he has. But I just have a problem with him. And when the anti-Jew stuff came out I found myself feeling quite hostile towards him, which makes me really uncomfortable, because his wider point about racism is an important one.

I just wish someone else had been the one speaking out.

Rafiq has exposed the terrible problem of racism in cricket, that has needed addressing for a long time.
But, rather confusingly, we know he himself was part of that problem with his racist comments about Jews.
I’m not surprised that makes you feel uneasy.

 

[jcdenton08]

And this is why whistleblowers never come forward.

Is it though? There are personal attacks if there is a stick to beat you with. It is all well and good campaigning against racism, as long as you yourself aren't racist. Rafiq made racist comments, as no doubt did lots at YCCC. That makes the lot of them racists. Do you see what I'm saying? You can't join a vegan anti meat-eating animal rights protest on the way home from the steakhouse.

Rafiq made a very credible claim, which hopefully leads to change in the culture of that specific environment. A claim which has been undermined somewhat. If you are going to make accusations of other people, it's a pretty ****ing stupid idea to be demonstrably guilty of the exact same thing.

The ironic thing is, if he had come out at the start and said he wanted to publicly apologise for his own past racism, and talk about his own experiences at YCCC in relation to this - and how it had really opened his eyes to how harmful and distressing such abuse can be - then perhaps all of this would seem a little less hypocritical and self-righteous. Perhaps he could've discussed the fear and lack of education he had about other cultures, which made him behave that way, and then compare and contrast that to the abuse he experienced.

 

[Eeyore]

What Bumble said was racist. You can have an opinion - but if it’s a racist one you don’t get to then complain when you find yourself no longer employed.

You equally don’t need to be squeaky clean to point towards clear institutional racism. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Rafiq should also pay according to his actions.

I don't think it was racist. This is the way the word gets diluted. It was a racial generalisation based on his perceived experience. He's been in the game a long time. This is part of my problem.

Around the world you'll here people say 'English are like this' or 'Indians are like that'.

My Dad was in the navy, he always made a lot of generalisations about other cultures. It's what people do. I don't have a problem with it as long as its natural context doesn't have an underbelly of hostility or deliberate discord. Bumble was forced to apologise for something he believes is correct when he should either be challenged to give examples or just left with his opinions.

I've often bemoaned the lack of Asian talent coming through the system. I don't even notice the colour of a player's skin when he plays for England. I was delighted when Hameed made his half ton against India last summer. I love seeing diverse representation at the highest levels (or any level). My opinion is clean. And I think Bumble's is too. Not to say it's right, but it certainly isn't racist.

Nothing wrong with folk saying what they see, but there is much wrong when the intent and context comes from a base of discrimination or hostility. It's all about motives.