Attendance v Fulham on Saturday...

[Moshe Gariani]

Carefully chosen? I said last 50 years - hardly "carefully chosen".

No and yes. Some clubs retain fans for a season or two after relegation. But a sustained period in the doldrums brings with it a drop in attendance. This is why your back of a fag packet analysis is pointless, because some clubs haven't really been in the doldrums, or at least nothing like what we've been through. Man City and Norwich both went down to league one for a season but crowds stayed with them, as expected, for those single seasons. So your simple analysis will show a drop in league position for them, but no drop in crowd size. So it's flawed.

No, no I didn't. I got tired of WCP's constant crowing of how fantastic our crowds have always been, when the fact is they were utterly shithouse as recently as 20 years ago, and not because of asset strippers, and not because of hooliganism. I'll say it again, look at our crowds from 1986-1993 and tell me I'm wrong. We got within one game of the Premiership, and averaged 8,000 - which was 19th best in the division. So the Albion have NOT "always been 'relatively well supported'".

You chose to change the time period from my "post-war" to your "last 50 years". That change allowed you to gloss over your inaccuracy about Liverpool's crowds in Div 2 - obviously just a coincidence, sorry.

The analysis for Norwich and Man City shows that they have been relatively well supported in comparison to their average league position over the years. What is your point?

Your obsession with 1991 and rejection of post war averages is telling. That year we scraped into 6th place with a goal difference of minus 6. We were placed 26th in the overall league standings and 36th for average gate. That is the worst year in the past 67 for this comparison. In almost every other year it has been positive, often by 20 places and by 10 on average.

I concede your italicised always. You are right. There have been 4 seasons in the past 67 in which we have not been "relatively well supported" (when in a permanent ground - and even the Gillingham/Withdean years weren't too bad on that front).

 

[LamieRobertson]

28998

 

[Papa Lazarou]

So, what's the crowd likely to be on Saturday?

 

[LamieRobertson]

So, what's the crowd likely to be on Saturday?

C above

 

[cardboard]

People have too much time on their hands if arguing about historic attendances of Liverpool - Jeez

 

[Moshe Gariani]

People have too much time on their hands if arguing about historic attendances of Liverpool - Jeez

So you're saying these people are using NSC as a timewasting distraction...? Interesting. It might just catch on....

 

[Simster]

You chose to change the time period from my "post-war" to your "last 50 years". That change allowed you to gloss over your inaccuracy about Liverpool's crowds in Div 2 - obviously just a coincidence, sorry.

I suggest you read it again and tell me where I mentioned "post war"? I said "last 50 years" from the outset.

The analysis for Norwich and Man City shows that they have been relatively well supported in comparison to their average league position over the years. What is your point?).

I thought I'd made this quite clear? Most teams don't lose support overnight just because of one relegation - it happens after sustained mediocrity. These two examples expose the flaw in your average attendance v average league position analysis because if your team's idea of "the doldrums" is to spend the occasional single season in a lower division, then you won't see these lower league positions reflected at the gate, because fans tend to stick around for a season or so.

Your obsession with 1991 and rejection of post war averages is telling. That year we scraped into 6th place with a goal difference of minus 6. We were placed 26th in the overall league standings and 36th for average gate. That is the worst year in the past 67 for this comparison. In almost every other year it has been positive, often by 20 places and by 10 on average.

Your obsession with post war averages appears more telling. I'm not interested in them. I'll concede that I tend to only look from the 70s, or maybe as far back as the 60s but that is because of my age. I am 43 and started following the club in 1978, so I don't tend to go too far back.

I concede your italicised always. You are right. There have been 4 seasons in the past 67 in which we have not been "relatively well supported" (when in a permanent ground - and even the Gillingham/Withdean years weren't too bad on that front).

So you concede I'm right, even using your flawed fag-packet method of calculating support rather than any sort of analysis that considers the probability that we have probably had a ton of local armchair fans who rarely ventured to the Goldstone out of habit, despite the 1.85m population of Sussex and Brighton being 43 miles away from the nearest league club until Crawley finally joined us.

 

[SAC]

Give up Simster. WCP and Moshie will only be happy when you state, as a fact, that we have the most loyal fans in the world who stick with us through thick and thin. Who sing the loudest songs in the greatest numbers and never leave early irrespective of the score.

 

[Cowfold Seagull]

I wonder why it's never used? Seems like an excellent idea to get the kids from local schools in, but they rarely do it. One for Mr Barber to answer, I guess.

That very same question came up in a Q & A session with Paul Barber at a NWSS meeting a year or two ago. As l remember he said that local schools were often sent free tickets, but they were hardly ever used!

 

[Moshe Gariani]

I suggest you read it again and tell me where I mentioned "post war"? I said "last 50 years" from the outset.

I thought I'd made this quite clear? Most teams don't lose support overnight just because of one relegation - it happens after sustained mediocrity. These two examples expose the flaw in your average attendance v average league position analysis because if your team's idea of "the doldrums" is to spend the occasional single season in a lower division, then you won't see these lower league positions reflected at the gate, because fans tend to stick around for a season or so.

Your obsession with post war averages appears more telling. I'm not interested in them. I'll concede that I tend to only look from the 70s, or maybe as far back as the 60s but that is because of my age. I am 43 and started following the club in 1978, so I don't tend to go too far back.

So you concede I'm right, even using your flawed fag-packet method of calculating support rather than any sort of analysis that considers the probability that we have probably had a ton of local armchair fans who rarely ventured to the Goldstone out of habit, despite the 1.85m population of Sussex and Brighton being 43 miles away from the nearest league club until Crawley finally joined us.

You keep digging, don't you?

The above quotes are almost complete nonsense, which seems a fitting place to end.

 

[Questions]

More and more ST holders are not using their tickets I know of a staunch long standing supporter who is not going as he is going to watch the boxing,this would never have happened a few years ago, sad times

Sad times indeed. Only 29 k saturday. Some STH dont go but in the old days there were just fans who went in the main but occasionally didn,t...like me.This STH thing is all shite. I repeat 29 fecking thousand.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

Some of the attendance figures announced at the Goldstone were a joke as well though. Why pay tax on 18,000 tickets when you can announce 11k!!!

Good point! I expect there were a few inaccurate attendances reported over the years at the Goldstone.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

O.k then...Tell me which club has sold 28/30k tickets for a relegation clash?...Is that better?
Why should we disregard fans who haven't turned up and of whom pay £500 for a St ?

You need to get out more if this pisses you off as most clubs do it end of...get over it

Where have I said it pisses me off. I have just voiced my opinion and said why I'd prefer the actual attendance figures to be announced. In my original post on this thread I also said the tickets sold figures were very good, so am not going to be quoting other relegation battle attendance figures superior to the potential figure for Saturday.

You sound more pissed off about my opinion that is opposite to yours! It's a forum for debate on our football club and other things and sometimes people have different opinions that don't match, but does that mean I should need to get out more because I have a different opinion to you?

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

Its wasting your breath. Some people just want to knock the club. Simster has an issue why Palace were getting similar but a little big bigger crowds in the lat 80's and early 90's. The fact that palace had Ian Wright playing for them, they finished 3rd in the top flight, and got to an FA Cup final might have had something to do with why more returned to palace than us, especially as we had a relegation to the 3rd division and our version of Ian Wright was er, Richard Tiltman and then Kevin Bremner! This says it all, and why the Albion can never win with some people. You will also see that none of the "never will fill Amex brigade" have yet to make the list of clubs who would get 30,000 for Fulham at home in a December championship relegation scrap. Why they are so negative about our support, I just don't know. The team I can understand but the support? Just doesnt make sense. Cheers for the sup[port of a few people but over and out on the subject from me. Was interesting to see Newcastle got 9000 for Oxford at home in this period. If that doesnt illustrate the point then nothing will.

How have I knocked the club by my wish that they would provide actual attendance figures?

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

Sorry SSS but who gives a stuff about attendances anyway ? tickets sold is the only figure that matters, wether peeps can be bothered/otherwise indisposed is really immaterial, money taken is the only figure that counts absolutely NOTHING else, get over yourself.

Yet another person telling me to get over myself because I have a different opinion to them. Real attendance figures do matter to some people as they like to compare current attendances to the figures of the past.

I'd like the club to announce the real attendance figures, but it's not my top priority in life and I do realise that tickets sold will be the way club announce attendances from now onwards. I'm not angry about this, just ever so slightly disappointed! I'm far more concerned about whether we can string a few wins together to get away from the relegation zone.

 

[Vegas Seagull]

Any evidence of the club promoting this match anywhere to anyone?

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Good point! I expect there were a few inaccurate attendances reported over the years at the Goldstone.

I would say most League clubs over the years have had "turnstile malfunctions"

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Any evidence of the club promoting this match anywhere to anyone?

E-mails have been sent out to everyone on the database who hasn't bought a ticket so far.

 

[glasfryn]

30,023

 

[sir albion]

Where have I said it pisses me off. I have just voiced my opinion and said why I'd prefer the actual attendance figures to be announced. In my original post on this thread I also said the tickets sold figures were very good, so am not going to be quoting other relegation battle attendance figures superior to the potential figure for Saturday.

You sound more pissed off about my opinion that is opposite to yours! It's a forum for debate on our football club and other things and sometimes people have different opinions that don't match, but does that mean I should need to get out more because I have a different opinion to you?

Well the bloody club don't do they ffs...Don't see anyother clubs whinging about this bar the usual half a dozen on here week in week out.Fact is on Saturday we would've sold around 29k tickets and why o why would we want to announce the actual attendance of say 27200 when we've sold 29k?
Yes it looks bad when you have wigan at home on a Tuesday with 100 away fans etc,but these games are not often to be fair and many albion fans miss midweek games for certain reasons as many don't live in and around brighton.
It's been said that St holders make 90% of games over the season...Thats pretty dam good.