At what stage does Bloom question the recruitment set up?

[Don Quixote]

1. How do you know Bloom hasn't / isn't questioning recruitment?

2. The stat is telling, to a degree, but doesn't quite tell the full story...

Stockdale - injured
Hughes - injured
Toko - dev squad addition
Holla - on the bench
Colunga - on the bench
McCourt - was always intended to be a squad addition / 'from the bench' / something different
O'Grady - see McCourt

Who am I missing?

Yeah I understand what you are saying about Hughes but he never really plays anyway. As for Stockdale well it seems Walton is better, so you could suggest that was a waste of money.

 

[Bozza]

There is no way that the club would have considered Toko a development squad addition - he'd played U21 for Switzerland (with some very good players) and well over 100 times for Grasshoppers in the top flight.

Up to now his signing has been a complete flop whichever way you look at it.

Defending the club too much, perhaps?

I was told he was well before the season started. Another factor I should have included above, of course, is he was also recruited well before Hyypia joined.

I'm not sure how the above is defending the club, just putting some meat behind the headline stat. That criticism seems to be the flavour of the month however, so I shouldn't be surprised.

 

[chaileyjem]

Yeah I understand what you are saying about Hughes but he never really plays anyway. As for Stockdale well it seems Walton is better, so you could suggest that was a waste of money.

Hughes hasn't played a lot this year because Dunk and to a lesser extent Greer have been in such good form but looks an impressive back up. A sensible and experienced Upson replacement.
All clubs in the Champ have 3 first team goalkeepers. The development of Walton is encouraging but shouldn't have ruled out getting a Kus replacement. (Now Wolves temporary #2 or #3)

 

[Austrian Gull]

I was told he was well before the season started. Another factor I should have included above, of course, is he was also recruited well before Hyypia joined.

I'm not sure how the above is defending the club, just putting some meat behind the headline stat. That criticism seems to be the flavour of the month however, so I shouldn't be surprised.

But that sentence is the crux of the matter - the club are recruting players before a new manager has a chance to decide if they are they are the right signings or not. The system has proved itself to be majorly flawed and is a barrier to experienced and successful managers coming here

There's no way that a 23 year old with Toko's credentials could be considered as a development squad addition.

 

[JBenno]

1. How do you know Bloom hasn't / isn't questioning recruitment?

2. The stat is telling, to a degree, but doesn't quite tell the full story...

Stockdale - injured
Hughes - injured
Toko - dev squad addition
Holla - on the bench
Colunga - on the bench
McCourt - was always intended to be a squad addition / 'from the bench' / something different
O'Grady - see McCourt

Who am I missing?

When was it ever muted that Toko was signed for Dev squad?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

But our current manager said when he joined that he was happy to leave recruitment to someone else as he had never been involved in it before.

If true, sounds very much like the actions of a Yes Man who will say whatever his prospective employer wants to hear in order to secure the only job on offer. Would have expected for him to insist on having some degree of input into recruitment, seeing as how it's his neck that would be on the line if it all went tits-up. Which it has.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

But that sentence is the crux of the matter - the club are recruting players before a new manager has a chance to decide if they are they are the right signings or not. The system has proved itself to be majorly flawed and is a barrier to experienced and successful managers coming here

There's no way that a 23 year old with Toko's credentials could be considered as a development squad addition.

Is it the system that is "majorly flawed" or just the set of players that the system has recruited?

 

[greyseagull]

To be honest it depends what you want him to question them about.

If you want him to query as to why there's so many rogue thunderstorms about at the moment then I guess he'll probably have a word with them today.

 

[greyseagull]

I don't like being unfair or criticising unnecessarily. However this last few weeks it has become quite clear that our personal shopper has been coming home with the wrong goods. It is hardly surprising the chef can't dish up a decent meal when he is only given tripe to work with. Sorry to say that....but it is wearing me down now.

You've been watching too much Mary Portas and Masterchef, my friend

 

[middletoenail]

I will never agree with the system of manager/head coach not being able to recruit their own players. How many of the successful managers in world football follow this approach?

 

[chaileyjem]

I guess the reason why we went foreign again with Hyppia is that English managers won't work with this transfer system

Do you mean Stuart Pearce not working with Forest's head of recruitment John Marshall, or Chris Evans at Derby County not working with Steve McClaren or John Yems not working with Eddie Howe at Bournemouth.
Interested to know what clubs with English managers don't have this role in their club looking after recruitment, academy operations etc.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

But that sentence is the crux of the matter - the club are recruting players before a new manager has a chance to decide if they are they are the right signings or not.addition.

That is grossly unfair - the deal to sign Toko didn't take place in the summer, before Hyypia arrived. It was secured whilst Oscar was still very much in position.

 

[KZNSeagull]

If true, sounds very much like the actions of a Yes Man who will say whatever his prospective employer wants to hear in order to secure the only job on offer. Would have expected for him to insist on having some degree of input into recruitment, seeing as how it's his neck that would be on the line if it all went tits-up. Which it has.

Possibly. We know he does have input though. It is a continental set up so perhaps Ernest has it right by saying that British managers will not work with this system, hence we have recruited a continental manager again? Edit: Just seen Chaileyjem's post, so forget that last sentence!

 

[Bozza]

But that sentence is the crux of the matter - the club are recruting players before a new manager has a chance to decide if they are they are the right signings or not. The system has proved itself to be majorly flawed and is a barrier to experienced and successful managers coming here

Wasn't it 1 player (not players) that were recruited before Hyypia started, and wasn't the purchase a work-in-progress of Oscar's before he walked away?

 

[Bold Seagull]

Is it the system that is "majorly flawed" or just the set of players that the system has recruited?

The most alarming thing for me is letting players go because we underrated them.

Personally, I don't think we can't stand in the way of big moves for the likes of Bridcutt, Buckley and Ulloa. You need to be seen as a club that can enable careers to develop and flourish, and you don't do that but preventing moves into the Premier League.

But, what really has to be questioned, is the likes of Elphick and Cook forming a formidable partnership at Bournemouth, then the poor decisions not to award Murray and Barnes big new contracts to stay, and also the likes of selling Noone when it appeared he was happy to be here.

Other than Ulloa, we've got no where near replacing Murray and Barnes in forward roles, and yet the money we must have spent on signings, wages, loan deals must far exceed what offering them bumper contracts would have been?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Burke has any influence over sales – so either TB is making a call on these, or the relevant manager at the time is, if they are then it's a massive argument to restrict their decision making on recruitment, not enhance it.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Do you mean Stuart Pearce not working with Forest's head of recruitment John Marshall, or Chris Evans at Derby County not working with Steve McClaren or John Yems not working with Eddie Howe at Bournemouth.
Interested to know what clubs with English managers don't have this role in their club looking after recruitment, academy operations etc.

OK. Another question arises then.

If the system is fine, is it the failure of the individuals who operate the system that is the problem?

It's surely essential that we identify what is wrong, before we come up with a "solution".

 

[Bozza]

I guess the reason why we went foreign again with Hyppia is that English managers won't work with this transfer system

Is it the system that is "majorly flawed"

Can someone please tell me, with absolutely surety and confidence (and without any guessing) what our "system" is, because I'm not sure I know.

What I do believe, based on what I've been told, is:

Poyet - very actively involved with all transfer dealings, latterly working with David Burke, and had no issues with our "system".
Garcia - very hands off indeed, to the point of apparent disinterest. The "system" had to find players as the manager wasn't going to.
Hyypia - arrived with no experience of player recruitment, so was happy with what the club had in place. He has since become far more hands-on in the same way Poyet was.

 

[GT49er]

Do you mean Stuart Pearce not working with Forest's head of recruitment John Marshall, or Chris Evans at Derby County not working with Steve McClaren or John Yems not working with Eddie Howe at Bournemouth.
Interested to know what clubs with English managers don't have this role in their club looking after recruitment, academy operations etc.

Or do you mean, exceptions to the rule?

.......and it doesn't seem to be working too well at Forest, does it?

 

[Julio]

Is it the system that is "majorly flawed" or just the set of players that the system has recruited?

The system makes sense (in theory...) manager tells the recruitment team the style he wants to play and the type of player he wants, maybe even makes their life easy by giving them the names. The recruitment team go away and see what's what, who's available, what they would cost in fees & wages (seems we get stuck at this point) and do all the detailed checks on fitness / attitude etc. They tell the manager these are the options and he says yay or nay - all the while being able to focus on footballing matters at the club, rather than looking into whether our new target smokes 20 a day (allegedly) or is addicted to sausage rolls (didn't stop us signing him).

So, in theory it's hard to argue with this. Clearly the execution of the system has been flawed and if you believe the last two managers a key reason has been internal relationships - which is down to the Chief Exc to sort.

 

[El Turi]

Is the recruitment policy to blame or is it the amount that has been available to spend on new players. Other than Baldock and Stockdale, I'd say the remainder aren't up to starting at this level and have been brought in as cheap options.