[Politics] Assisted Dying

[Silverhatch]

It's wrong that we're not allowed to choose. My Mum has always said that she doesn't want to live in a certain state, if /when she gets to that state there is nothing I can do to stop her pain.
If me and my dog were randomly at the point of no return and in the same amount of pain, at the same time, I can give permission to put my dog out of pain but I can't ask for the same thing for myself. As far as I'm concerned that's not right. I might need to point out that neither my dog or I have anything to pass on when we're dead, so I can take money out of my argument to allow it.

So fella, get your mum (and yourself) to write an advanced decision. The template is available from the dignity in dying website - and then share those thoughts with family, doctors, hospital etc. Just review it every couple of years or as often as you want/need to. This is really important stuff to do with end of life situations - NOT assisted suicide.

 

[sydney]

all for it.

 

[NooBHA]

in principle it sounds all well and good, and i for one have always said a trip to Holland seems a good way out.

however, my concern is that it could open up Pandora’s box. How long until it’s deemed a special circumstance that AN Other is given special permission to make the decision for you …

a slippery old slope. Of course we would all be reassured at the outset that such ‘extras’ could never happen, but we all know what happens when the thin edge of the wedge gets leant on a bit heavy.

I am not sure you can just trek over to the Netherlands for assistance to die.

One of my best friends is a doctor in palitable care residence for terminally ill patients. I am sure he mentioned to me that he and other doctors in that field can make the decision to end life but I don't think that it can be done solely on request.

I think the doctor has to instigate the decision and then broach the subject and get agreement from the next of kin. I am not 100% sure that's how it's done but that's how I understood it from the explanation he gave.

Edit.

Just looked it up and it says it can be requested but doctors can reject the request and their guidance is that it should be done only to relieve physical suffering and any doctor wishing to carry it out has to put an argument before a panel or committee. It doesn't look like doctors carry it out unless the patient has been under that doctors care.

 

[sydney]

I am not sure you can just trek over to the Netherlands for assistance to die.

One of my best friends is a doctor in palitable care residence for terminally ill patients. I am sure he mentioned to me that he and other doctors in that field can make the decision to end life but I don't think that it can be done solely on request.

I think the doctor has to instigate the decision and then broach the subject and get agreement from the next of kin. I am not 100% sure that's how it's done but that's how I understood it from the explanation he gave.

Palliative mate , sure that's a spellcheck malfunction , in cases where the patient has no hope of recovery and is "compus mentus " then the doctor will normally discuss options with the patient themselves , a lot more people are signing "not for resuss" forms and where the patient loses consciousness and the options have been accepted the morphine driver will come out and the dose will be upped and upped until it stops the heart .......it's been going on for years.

 

[NooBHA]

Palliative mate , sure that's a spellcheck malfunction , in cases where the patient has no hope of recovery and is "compus mentus " then the doctor will normally discuss options with the patient themselves , a lot more people are signing "not for resuss" forms and where the patient loses consciousness and the options have been accepted the morphine driver will come out and the dose will be upped and upped until it stops the heart .......it's been going on for years.

I was only going with what I could initially remember what my mate had told me when I asked him him about it as he is a doctor in Netherlands making such decisions and he made it sound like it was the doctors implementing the decisions. It was a social discussion and I was really only trying to find out from him how he came to the decision and how difficult he found it. And for him he didn't find it difficult at all as he personally believes in assisted dying being an option. So my post was really about the Netherlands and my friend in Holland's view on the subject

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I want legally binding advanced decisions. I don’t want Dignity in Dying operating as some sort of Quasi-quack website that cannot collate all the advanced decisions into a centrally recognised, uber-attributable database. No religion, no government and no-one else has any jurisdiction over MY decision to end MY own life when I decide it’s appropriate. I cannot think of any other safeguard apart from many years of consistent and documented advance decision.

I could live with that.

 

[Lyndhurst 14]

Palliative mate , sure that's a spellcheck malfunction , in cases where the patient has no hope of recovery and is "compus mentus " then the doctor will normally discuss options with the patient themselves , a lot more people are signing "not for resuss" forms and where the patient loses consciousness and the options have been accepted the morphine driver will come out and the dose will be upped and upped until it stops the heart .......it's been going on for years.

This is exactly what happened with my Mum, it was done with her consent and the family's. In the conversation with her doctor he asked if she wished to continue living and she said No. I believe it was called the Liverpool Care Pathway and to me it made a lot of sense

 

[dazzer6666]

Something this serious and emotive is always going to have polarised views……..which is fine. Personally think the choice should be there as having to watch someone wither away to a still, silent skeleton over the course of several weeks certainly clarified things in my mind for when that time comes, but also understand the immense difficulties that surround the required protocols, documentation, timing, ability to change decisions, risk of undue interference etc etc and the reservations people will have as a result.

 

[sydney]

This is exactly what happened with my Mum, it was done with her consent and the family's. In the conversation with her doctor he asked if she wished to continue living and she said No. I believe it was called the Liverpool Care Pathway and to me it made a lot of sense

yep , heart breaking but dignified and controlled when people have had enough they have had enough. All the best.

 

[pigbite]

No, sorry. I am implacably against it. As I am the death penalty. Thou shalt not kill. And I do not believe in god, before anyone asks.

Just interested to know if you are saying there is never a justification for taking another life? For example, taking one life to prevent one or more others being taken (e.g. police shooting a terrorist, a war such as WW2). If you would accept that "thou shalt not kill" is not black and white then I'm interested to know how you determine what you consider an acceptable reason and if it might be possible that there could be circumstances in which assisted dying could be acceptable?

 

[sydney]

Just interested to know if you are saying there is never a justification for taking another life? For example, taking one life to prevent one or more others being taken (e.g. police shooting a terrorist, a war such as WW2). If you would accept that "thou shalt not kill" is not black and white then I'm interested to know how you determine what you consider an acceptable reason and if it might be possible that there could be circumstances in which assisted dying could be acceptable?

terminal , acute illnesses where the patient is in pain and heading for a painful , stressful exit.......i'm surprised someone of HWT's obvious intellect is against ending the misery for such cases.

 

[Brovion]

The husbands of two of my wife's friends died quite recently. (Before lockdown). Both had prostate cancer that spread, however Dignitas or anything like that was never mentioned afaik. For both of them their pain was managed, their brows were mopped and they smiled weakly if you visited them. The assumption was that when the time came they would both just slip gently and peacefully away, only ..... they didn't. Both women said the same thing; "He suffered." For one his death was so horrific that she received counselling. (She also lied to his children and said it was peaceful).

So yes, the law need to change. It's your life, it belongs to you, not to the government, not to the Crown and not to a deity. Choosing the time and manner of your death should be THE most fundamental of Human Rights. There is simply no counter-argument, only a discussion around the mechanics and the safeguards.

 

[sydney]

The husbands of two of my wife's friends died quite recently. (Before lockdown). Both had prostate cancer that spread, however Dignitas or anything like that was never mentioned afaik. For both of them their pain was managed, their brows were mopped and they smiled weakly if you visited them. The assumption was that when the time came they would both just slip gently and peacefully away, only ..... they didn't. Both women said the same thing; "He suffered." For one his death was so horrific that she received counselling. (She also lied to his children and said it was peaceful).

So yes, the law need to change. It's your life, it belongs to you, not to the government, not to the Crown and not to a deity. Choosing the time and manner of your death should be THE most fundamental of Human Rights. There is simply no counter-argument, only a discussion around the mechanics and the safeguards.

very much this ....why should people descend to a state of total loss of dignity , often in excruciating pain , mental and physical...............it really ought to be a no brainer.