Ashley Barnes isn't nearly good enough for us.

[stss30]

Your point is?

Murray is more a provider you said, whereas infact Barnes has more assists.

 

[El Presidente]

I dont care about stats.

Post by Mr Burns
Murray 7.40
ELphick 7.03
Bennett 6.99
Bridcutt 6.97
El Abd 6.93
Kishishev 6.80
Greer 6.77
Painter 6.70
Dicker 6.58
Noone 6.52
Ankergren6.51
Calderon 6.40
Wood 6.35
Barnes 6.34
Sparrow 6.04

Irony isn't your strong point is it..........

 

[Samej]

Irony isn't your strong point is it..........

Mr Burns is a **** doo dah
Mr Burns is a **** doo dah doo dah deeeh

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Shouldn't you try debating yourself before posting that. Because that post probably sums up you up

I have posted several times on this thread but you haven't bothered reading them properly. I've given up because you don't attempt to see anyone else's point of view.

 

[DT Withdean]

theonesmith:

You are spot on.

Some people here trying to denigrate the young Barnes. I trust Poyet on this like everything else. His football knowledge is far superior. Like all good managers he will be nurturing this talent, and we will ship out Wood & Sandaza.

 

[Acker79]

Minutes to goals ratio. But then again, I dont care about stats. I'm just trying to put across 19 goals isn't as good as it looks, and people should not use this as their argument, as nearly all on here do. Because on that basis wouldn't Sandaza be our best striker, when he clearly isn't.

One goal every:
Sandaza 115.60 mins
Barnes 171.11 mins
Murray 174.34 mins
Wood 188.70 mins

The thing is, when arguing a footballer's worth or his contribution, many of the attributes judged are what make up stats. Shots, number of shots score or missed, how frequently he scores, passes complete, etc.

When someone comes along and, for example, says barnes barely started games this year, it's a skewed perspective. Maybe it is because of personal bias (not accusing you of that!), or because that player didn't have a notable impact in a lot of those games, or someone is just guessing, stats make it clear. 37 starts out of 54 is starting the majority of matches (more than 2 thirds).

When someone says he needs 10 chances to score one goal (again, not accusing you of that, just using it as an example) stats show 1 goal every five shots.

The stats also give you perspective on that when you see it's approximately the same as Wayne Rooney (calm down, I'm not saying Barnes is as good as Rooney, just that even "one of the best strikers in the world" misses a number of chances for every goal he scores, which going back to that earlier point about why it's relevant who you would have instead, is something that it is unreasonable to criticise him for when any other striker would produce the same).

Stats have their place. They provide information, they help highlight honest misconceptions and lies. They are not the entire argument, but they are part of it. It's unavoidable with football, and especially so with strikers.

 

[Mr Burns]

Irony isn't your strong point is it..........

Been there with you last week.

Answered that with you last week.



Repeat yourself you make a point.

Again again again

so, I'll play your game

WANKER!! Whilst I'm happy to and will continue to post in this thread all the time people who are not even at the game to watch him BOUNCE it, you El Pres have proved you are a complete waste of space, and dare I say it a bully in your debating. You change things to suit you as you have proved this morning, and can never respond when you are pulled up on things.

You have proved this morning(1st May), that once again you are a complete waste of space and time, and are not worthy of any response by anyone on this thread, or board, and I can't be bothered to respond to anything you say and I'll think I'll just cut and paste this to everyone of your repsonses, becuase you aint worth the effort.

 

[Stoo82]

Is this still going?

 

[Mr Burns]

Murray is more a provider you said, whereas infact Barnes has more assists.

Okay. So that only counts for the flick ons from Murray that someone directly scores from. You could argue a weak shot from Barnes that the keeper saves and someone taps in is an assit from Barnes hypothety. I judge him on what I see not what the stats say. And I know the irony of me posting the average stats, but that was tongue in cheek to prove the point about stats, as Dickhead who keeps pointing it out fully knows.

 

[Mr Burns]

theonesmith:

You are spot on.

Some people here trying to denigrate the young Barnes. I trust Poyet on this like everything else. His football knowledge is far superior. Like all good managers he will be nurturing this talent, and we will ship out Wood & Sandaza.

From someone who slates Wood, and even younger player in another thread

 

[Mr Burns]

Is this still going?

No it all finished last week

 

[Mr Burns]

I have posted several times on this thread but you haven't bothered reading them properly. I've given up because you don't attempt to see anyone else's point of view.

Okay. Whatever. You normally manage more than a line anyway....

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

"19 goals isn't as good as it looks" has made it to my 'Quote of the Year' shortlist. Fantastically retarded.

When everyone was wanting a 20 goal a season striker I don't remember one of the sticking points being it had to be 20 goals scored and an all-round superstar.

What a joke.

Andy Cole was KNOWN for not scoring the vast majority of his chances, but he was ALWAYS there to miss the chances. Half the battle of a goalscorer is to create the space to receive the assists. Barnes has been FANTASTIC this season for his age and other teams must think we are absolute COCKS for not appreciating a 21 year old new signing who hasn't started every game YET STILL nearly has 20 goals.

Some people.

 

[Mr Burns]

One goal every:
Sandaza 115.60 mins
Barnes 171.11 mins
Murray 174.34 mins
Wood 188.70 mins

The thing is, when arguing a footballer's worth or his contribution, many of the attributes judged are what make up stats. Shots, number of shots score or missed, how frequently he scores, passes complete, etc.

When someone comes along and, for example, says barnes barely started games this year, it's a skewed perspective. Maybe it is because of personal bias (not accusing you of that!), or because that player didn't have a notable impact in a lot of those games, or someone is just guessing, stats make it clear. 37 starts out of 54 is starting the majority of matches (more than 2 thirds).

When someone says he needs 10 chances to score one goal (again, not accusing you of that, just using it as an example) stats show 1 goal every five shots.

The stats also give you perspective on that when you see it's approximately the same as Wayne Rooney (calm down, I'm not saying Barnes is as good as Rooney, just that even "one of the best strikers in the world" misses a number of chances for every goal he scores, which going back to that earlier point about why it's relevant who you would have instead, is something that it is unreasonable to criticise him for when any other striker would produce

Stats have their place. They provide information, they help highlight honest misconceptions and lies. They are not the entire argument, but they are part of it. It's unavoidable with football, and especially so with strikers.

WHich is why stats are bullshit, and most cant see past 19 goals which is my point...... and why I answer those that like to quote nothing but 19 goals, with the stats thats show Barnes as being one of the poorest regulars.....

 

[theonesmith]

theonesmith:

You are spot on.

Some people here trying to denigrate the young Barnes. I trust Poyet on this like everything else. His football knowledge is far superior. Like all good managers he will be nurturing this talent, and we will ship out Wood & Sandaza.

Thank you, exactly. For 50k, at his age, I think he represents tremendous value and good potential --> how much must he be worth now? 10x, 20x that amount? And I hope that we bring in another one or two quality strikers, who offer different values to Barnes & Murray (if Murray stays) and maintain our rotational tactics. Barnes has scored nearly 20 goals this season in a championship winning side, so to answer the title of this thread: Barnes has proven he is good enough for us at this level, and has my faith that he will remain a great squad player with potential to improve in the nPower Championship.

 

[Acker79]

WHich is why stats are bullshit, and most cant see past 19 goals which is my point...... and why I answer those that like to quote nothing but 19 goals, with the stats thats show Barnes as being one of the poorest regulars.....

Stats are bullshit because they highlight personal bias or misconceptions? Or they are bullshit because every aspect of a footballers performance is essentially a stat?

What you reply to that goal stat with is an outdated, selective reading of the NSC player ratings, i.e. what people thought of his game, which as mentioned above, can be proved inaccurate with stats, and as mentioned way back in this thread, is not a reliable indication of his performance.

 

[theonesmith]

WHich is why stats are bullshit, and most cant see past 19 goals which is my point...... and why I answer those that like to quote nothing but 19 goals, with the stats thats show Barnes as being one of the poorest regulars.....

How does that prove your point?

Mr Burns, I am not an unreasonable man. If you put forward a point, and give me reasonable evidence, I will weigh up all available information to come to an informed decision. However, if you just spout biased opinion, you will receive the reaction that you have. Please, give me some evidence to support your view! Stats are one form, highlights, match incidents are another. I have been watching Brighton all season, been to a few away games- so I should be able to recall the masses of incidents that I'm sure have occurred where he has evidenced the point that he is not good enough for us..

 

[Lewes' best seagull]

Okay. So that only counts for the flick ons from Murray that someone directly scores from. You could argue a weak shot from Barnes that the keeper saves and someone taps in is an assit from Barnes hypothety. I judge him on what I see not what the stats say. And I know the irony of me posting the average stats, but that was tongue in cheek to prove the point about stats, as Dickhead who keeps pointing it out fully knows.

That's getting quite desperate now.

 

[theonesmith]

Go on then. Tell me why?

If I missed something please point it out. All the things you can accuse me of, not answering peoples posts isn't one of them. If you made a point that I never answered point me to it.......

Go on, Mr Burns. This one

How does that prove your point?

Mr Burns, I am not an unreasonable man. If you put forward a point, and give me reasonable evidence, I will weigh up all available information to come to an informed decision. However, if you just spout biased opinion, you will receive the reaction that you have. Please, give me some evidence to support your view! Stats are one form, highlights, match incidents are another. I have been watching Brighton all season, been to a few away games- so I should be able to recall the masses of incidents that I'm sure have occurred where he has evidenced the point that he is not good enough for us..

 

[Questions]

Mr Burns... stop now.

You`re making a fool of yourself. We`d all thought you`d reached the abyss with you`re ''Forster was a ****'' views but you`re surpassing yourself here.

In the opening sentences of you`re opening post on this thread you stated that you hoped he would become ''the half decent striker'' we all expected but was coming up short.

19 goals suggests he is a HALF DECENT STRIKER. Room for improvement ? Oh yes, no doubt about that but at 21 that might just happen.