Ashes: 3rd Test @ Perth

[Bold Seagull]

Finn should have been playing here(and the last test for that matter) anyway, I think Bairstow & Ballance yes but I'm not overly keen on Rankin.

I think any view on Rankin is irrelevant, if he's out there, he should play. It might be that the next two tests tell us if he's up to it or not. May not tell us anything, but I'd rather lose 5-0 and discover a few things about a couple of the players, then lose 5-0 not playing people in the squad.

 

[Bold Seagull]

How is that out then!?

Joe Root was given out, no evidence that he hit it, but because it was out on the field the decision stood.

In Bell given not out, no conclusive evidence that he did hit it, and given out!!??

That is just bollocks.

Stokes playing well. We've learnt a lot about this lad in a team in turmoil. Shame we haven't had a chance to have a look at Ballance, Bairstow, Finn and Rankin in this environment.

 

[spring hall convert]

I'm normally advsing against wholesale changes but I'd like to see before the series is out;

Ballance for Pietersen (I'm his staunchest defender on here but perhaps the time has come to move on in Test cricket, he still has a place in the ODI's and T20's if he wants it.)
Bairstow for Prior (Bairstow's test record to date suggests to me he'll be no worse with the bat than this version of Prior, I'd like to have a look at him with the gloves, I suspect he isn't up to being a test match wicket keeper.)
I'd like Finn to get a go, if Broad is out, that looks like the obvious swap, if not I'd give Anderson a blow. He hasn't really been at it since Trent Bridge.
Panesar for Swann (If Swann as I've suspected for a while is retiring after this series, get it done now. If not, I think Panesar still gets a go on form.)

Not all in the same test match but we have 2 tests left in more England friendly conditions to have a bit of a fiddle with the team. I think the time has come also for Flower to start asking Giles what he wants to see as I think we'll see a Test match coaching change after this. It'll be a shame for Flower to go out in this way, we have plenty to be grateful to him for.

 

[knocky1]

Do you remember day 4 at the WACA, on the whitewash tour, when Adam Gilchrist hit the 2nd fastest ever Test Match century? I think that was worse, just.

I agree now, I should have waited for end of play. We should win by tea tomorrow!

 

[The Wizard]

Only 250 to win Makes you wonder if one of Root/Pietersen/Cook had got a decent score, maybe we could have had a chance....

 

[Bold Seagull]

Only 250 to win Makes you wonder if one of Root/Pietersen/Cook had got a decent score, maybe we could have had a chance....

that is a big IF

 

[larus]

Although I don't advocate knee-jerk reactions, I feel as though several of the players are either at the end of their playing days at this level or are just a bit burnt out. Let's be honest, the schedule of international cricket is draining, maybe more mentally than physically I would say; being away from home for long stretches.

The spark has gone from this group, and younger players need top be blooded if possible, but allowed time to flourish if they are thought to have the ability at this level. This is something which I would applaud the selectors for over recent times; allowing players to play through any loss of form and eliminate the pressure of playing for your place.

I'd keep :
Cook.
Root.
Bell.
Broad.
Stokes (if he's viewed as being one for the future).

I'd plan to replace:
Carberry.
Pietersen.
Bresnan.
Swann.

Anderson/Prior. Not sure. Priors form has dipped, but he had a good summer. Anderson hasn't really fired here and he has had other tours where he has struggled to take wickets. He does excel in English conditions though. To add these to the 'replace' list would be too much in one go I suspect.

These players have done well, and it's been a great time for english cricket, but these things don't last, so I don't want them to hang about too long.

 

[Paddy B]

I'm normally advsing against wholesale changes but I'd like to see before the series is out;

Ballance for Pietersen (I'm his staunchest defender on here but perhaps the time has come to move on in Test cricket, he still has a place in the ODI's and T20's if he wants it.)
Bairstow for Prior (Bairstow's test record to date suggests to me he'll be no worse with the bat than this version of Prior, I'd like to have a look at him with the gloves, I suspect he isn't up to being a test match wicket keeper.)
I'd like Finn to get a go, if Broad is out, that looks like the obvious swap, if not I'd give Anderson a blow. He hasn't really been at it since Trent Bridge.
Panesar for Swann (If Swann as I've suspected for a while is retiring after this series, get it done now. If not, I think Panesar still gets a go on form.)

Not all in the same test match but we have 2 tests left in more England friendly conditions to have a bit of a fiddle with the team. I think the time has come also for Flower to start asking Giles what he wants to see as I think we'll see a Test match coaching change after this. It'll be a shame for Flower to go out in this way, we have plenty to be grateful to him for.

That pretty much sums up my view. I would also add that the selection process for the bowlers was rather strange. Why pick three identikit tall fast bowlers and not Onions?

Onions for Anderson could have been another potential change.

The signs were there, we have not played good cricket since Lords

 

[Bold Seagull]

Although I don't advocate knee-jerk reactions, I feel as though several of the players are either at the end of their playing days at this level or are just a bit burnt out. Let's be honest, the schedule of international cricket is draining, maybe more mentally than physically I would say; being away from home for long stretches.

The spark has gone from this group, and younger players need top be blooded if possible, but allowed time to flourish if they are thought to have the ability at this level. This is something which I would applaud the selectors for over recent times; allowing players to play through any loss of form and eliminate the pressure of playing for your place.

I'd keep :
Cook.
Root.
Bell.
Broad.
Stokes (if he's viewed as being one for the future).

I'd plan to replace:
Carberry.
Pietersen.
Bresnan.
Swann.

Anderson/Prior. Not sure. Priors form has dipped, but he had a good summer. Anderson hasn't really fired here and he has had other tours where he has struggled to take wickets. He does excel in English conditions though. To add these to the 'replace' list would be too much in one go I suspect.

These players have done well, and it's been a great time for english cricket, but these things don't last, so I don't want them to hang about too long.

It's not a knee jerk reaction, it is something that should have been looked at after the tour to NZ, then after the abject displays of most of them during the summer Ashes. Instead we've hoped for 12 months that most of these senior players would return to form, and instead they've completely collapsed and bought the rest of the side down with them.

In a team there should be no players beyond dropping. Boycott makes an excellent point that Sir Alex would drop his best player if he felt it benefitted the team. England are scarred stiff of dropping KP, or Anderson or Prior or Swann. But why? I don't want to go back to the dark days of the '90's where England players would come in for 2 or 3 tests then be dropped, but I also think it's all too cozy in there now.

 

[spring hall convert]

I wonder what price you would have got on Ben Stokes being England's first centurion of the series a few weeks ago. It could well happen.

He's looking like the only positive from this series so far. Long term it would be a massive positive to have an all rounder who makes the team for his batting and bowling.

Typical, we've been looking for one for 7 or 8 years now & just as we find one, the rest of the team decided to go AWOL....

 

[Bold Seagull]

I wonder what price you would have got on Ben Stokes being England's first centurion of the series a few weeks ago. It could well happen.

He's looking like the only positive from this series so far. Long term it would be a massive positive to have an all rounder who makes the team for his batting and bowling.

Typical, we've been looking for one for 7 or 8 years now & just as we find one, the rest of the team decided to go AWOL....

Would be great to see if Bairstow has the potential with the gloves as a replacement for Prior. England have to use these last 2 tests as a sounding board for the future. Should have made more changes for this test than they did, but they're living off a wing and a pray that players could pull off past glories once more when form of the last 12 months clearly suggested otherwise.

 

[larus]

It's not a knee jerk reaction, it is something that should have been looked at after the tour to NZ, then after the abject displays of most of them during the summer Ashes. Instead we've hoped for 12 months that most of these senior players would return to form, and instead they've completely collapsed and bought the rest of the side down with them.

In a team there should be no players beyond dropping. Boycott makes an excellent point that Sir Alex would drop his best player if he felt it benefitted the team. England are scarred stiff of dropping KP, or Anderson or Prior or Swann. But why? I don't want to go back to the dark days of the '90's where England players would come in for 2 or 3 tests then be dropped, but I also think it's all too cozy in there now.

Don't get me wrong. I think that too many of the players look either burnt out or beyond their 'sell-by' date. Bearing in mind that Broad may be out of the rest of the tour (which is a real shame, as I think he's been a good performer and occasionally, outstanding), then you can't really drop Anderson.

So, I would drop KP, Prior and Swann. The problem is on a tour, are the other players their match sharp. Making 1 change is OK, but potentially 4 (assuming Broad is out).

 

[Bold Seagull]

The problem is on a tour, are the other players their match sharp. Making 1 change is OK, but potentially 4 (assuming Broad is out).

I think that concern is irrelevant now. We are so bad it doesn't matter how sharp the replacements are, they can't do any worse than the currently selected players. Like Stokes has shown, it might be great for the likes of Bairstow, Finn, Rankin to get thrown into the fray. They've got nothing to lose at this point, but a lot to gain. No one will blame them for failing in the next 2 tests, but they could really stake a claim if they do well.

 

[knocky1]

As the cracks widen it has to be in our favour. The new ball will shoot of them at all angles. The chance of ball hitting the wicket will be slim. Mattie and Stokes will both got centuries along with 50+ byes. Bresnan and Swann will enjoy themselves. Then I can envisage Broad coming in at 11 or even 10 and standing at the wicket watching the winning runs come from 4 byes over 2nd slips head. He is not allowed a runner. We then have the dubituous pleasure of watching Nasser Hussain run naked twice around the WACA .

At 2-1 we then win at the MCG and it's all to play for at Sydney. Only 200-1 for 3-2 at Ladbrokes

 

[The Wizard]

As the cracks widen it has to be in our favour. The new ball will shoot of them at all angles. The chance of ball hitting the wicket will be slim. Mattie and Stokes will both got centuries along with 50+ byes. Bresnan and Swann will enjoy themselves. Then I can envisage Broad coming in at 11 or even 10 and standing at the wicket watching the winning runs come from 4 byes over 2nd slips head. He is not allowed a runner. We then have the dubituous pleasure of watching Nasser Hussain run naked twice around the WACA .

At 2-1 we then win at the MCG and it's all to play for at Sydney. Only 200-1 for 3-2 at Ladbrokes

I'll have whatever this guys having

Unfortunately I bet Prior gets out cheaply in the morning.

 

[Simster]

I'll have whatever this guys having

Unfortunately I bet Prior gets out cheaply in the morning.

He will be second man out, after half an hour having made a "plucky" 19.

 

[Pavilionaire]

This series has highlighted how the days of three seamers plus Swann are now over. The workload on Anderson, Broad and Swann in particular has been too much and in Stokes they might now have that Flintoff-type player that can balance the side. If so, it means more rest possible for the main three.

As for the batsmen, I think there's a case for juggling the batting order. I don't buy the pro-Compton argument, I think the Aussies would have had a field day working him over. Carberry's done a bit better than I expected, he's managed 40 or more in each of the 1st innings in this series so I think he can "do a job" without being able to play a match-winning innings.

Cook did well in the 1st Innings and got a beauty from Harris in the second. If Swann gets the chop then an under-pressure captain loses his right-hand man, and I think life will get even harder for Cook.

When you think back to the 2006/07 whitewash and you look at those players that survived and reappeared in the following series that we won 2-1 you see Cook, Strauss, Bell, Collingwood, Pietersen, Flintoff, Panesar, Anderson, Harmison. The difference was that we were able to bring in 3 or 4 new players that had an immediate impact, i.e. Broad, Swann, Prior and Trott, and this rejuvenated the side.

I fancy the man to get the chop might be Pietersen. He's not the most popular of players and he no longer seems to have the discipline to play the sort of innings we require. It may be that the dressing room will respond positively to not having him around, although the success of this move is equally dependent upon someone like James Taylor being able to come in and hit the ground running, much as Jonathan Trott did.

 

[spring hall convert]

Cook did well in the 1st Innings and got a beauty from Harris in the second. If Swann gets the chop then an under-pressure captain loses his right-hand man, and I think life will get even harder for Cook.

I'm interested in what makes you say "right hand man." Is it from a chuck him the ball and he'll get a wicket sense? Because I've never really been under the impression that Swann & Cook are particuarly close. Sure they say the right things about each other in public but I think Cook probably finds Swann a bit trivial and Swann finds Cook a bit pompous. Swann's always been a bit of a handful for captains....

 

[spring hall convert]

Although I don't advocate knee-jerk reactions, I feel as though several of the players are either at the end of their playing days at this level or are just a bit burnt out. Let's be honest, the schedule of international cricket is draining, maybe more mentally than physically I would say; being away from home for long stretches.

The spark has gone from this group, and younger players need top be blooded if possible, but allowed time to flourish if they are thought to have the ability at this level. This is something which I would applaud the selectors for over recent times; allowing players to play through any loss of form and eliminate the pressure of playing for your place.

I'd keep :
Cook.
Root.
Bell.
Broad.
Stokes (if he's viewed as being one for the future).

I'd plan to replace:
Carberry.
Pietersen.
Bresnan.
Swann.

Anderson/Prior. Not sure. Priors form has dipped, but he had a good summer. Anderson hasn't really fired here and he has had other tours where he has struggled to take wickets. He does excel in English conditions though. To add these to the 'replace' list would be too much in one go I suspect.

These players have done well, and it's been a great time for english cricket, but these things don't last, so I don't want them to hang about too long.

Pretty tough on Bresnan I'd say. He's only 28, he's got decent test figures with bat and ball & is only just back from a serious injury, he's defianately a man to have in and around the squad, even if he isn't a definite starter. Other than that I agree with your squad surgery.

 

[brightonmark1234]

need stokes and prior to stay in till after lunch and for them to dig in and play sensible and not give their wickets away like kp did