[Misc] Are you one of the 4%...

[beorhthelm]

anyone getting confused or upset, i've found the answer and it still doesnt really make much sense. the psychologocial reasoning behind the "answer" i get, but not why one of the cards cant prove/disprove the question in the same way.

 

[SUA Seagull]

No one said there'd be a number on the other side. There could be a drawing of a cock, or there could be a vowel. If it's the latter, the rule is broken, so we have to know what it is. Is it a cock, or is it a vowel.

Surely the rule is broken without the need to turn the K card over, regardless of what's on the other side of the K, because the K is a consonant which automatically fails the rule? Whatever's on the back of the K is thus irrelevant, be it number or knob! (...I assumed it would be a number...).

 

[vegster]

No, the rule is that a vowel must have an even number on the other side. That does not mean that an even number must have a vowel on the other side.

That would explain why I am in a dead end job.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

It's every card ffs, you need to turn every card to check if there's a vowel or even number there!

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

 

[Notters]

Surely the rule is broken without the need to turn the K card over, regardless of what's on the other side of the K, because the K is a consonant which automatically fails the rule? Whatever's on the back of the K is thus irrelevant, be it number or knob! (...I assumed it would be a number...).

NO, because if it has a vowel on the other side, it disproves the rule, if it doesn't, then it doesn't.

 

[peterward]

This has been bugging me and my family all day! After taking another look at the exact wording this evening "If a card has a vowel on one side, it must have an even number on the other side" then in order to prove that rule I think the following logic applies.

A - needs to be turned over to check if there's an even number on the back. If yes, the rule is proved. If no, the rule is disproved.
K - no need to turn that over because it's a consonant, so the number on the obverse is irrelevant.
2 - no need to turn that over because it doesn't matter if it's a consonant or a vowel on the obverse because the rule says "if there's a vowel on one side there has to be an even number on the other side". The rule does not say that the same applies vice versa, i.e. if there's an even number on one side there has to be a vowel on the back. So turning over that card would not prove or deny the rule. So no need to turn it over.
7 - needs to be turned over to prove that there's not a vowel on the back, which - if there was - would disprove the rule.

So I (now) think it's A and 7. Earlier I thought A and 2 because I made the careless mistake of reading the vowel/number rule as applying vice versa too, which it doesn't actually state.

You make the same mistake with K, as you rightly said the question only says a vowel must have an even number, it doesnt say an even number must have a vowel and all youre reasoning for A,2,7 is good, however with K, it doesnt say to assume a consonant must have a number on the other side, its doesnt stipulate anything about what could be on the other side of k except ONLY a vowel must have an even number. Therefore the K might have a number on the other side, the queen of hearts, a top trump of Alan Pardew from 1989 or even a vowel, it must be checked as it may have a vowel on the other side which would then make it break the rule as it then wouldnt be a vowel with an even number, it would be a vowel with a consonant. From the exact wording of the question without any additional assumptions the answer is A,K,7

 

[Notters]

You make the same mistake with K, as you rightly said the question only says a vowel must have an even number, it doesnt say an even number must have a vowel and all youre reasoning for A,2,7 is good, however with K, it doesnt say to assume a consonant must have a number on the other side, its doesnt stipulate anything about what could be on the other side of k except ONLY a vowel must have an even number. Therefore the K might have a number on the other side, the queen of hearts, a top trump of Alan Pardew from 1989 or even a vowel, it must be checked as it may have a vowel on the other side which would then make it break the rule as it then wouldnt be a vowel with an even number, it would be a vowel with a consonant. From the exact wording of the question without any additional assumptions the answer is A,K,7

Bloody hell, that's impressive intuition. Here it is:

 

[beorhthelm]

NO, because if it has a vowel on the other side, it disproves the rule, if it doesn't, then it doesn't.

very interesting point, because SUA Seagull's point is entirely valid, but you've spotted a flaw in the setup. we are expected to assume all cards have a number on one side and letter on the other, but this isnt stated.

btw the purpose of the test is not to be right, its about the reasoning you use.

 

[Nathan]

Once you have seen the cards, you can't unsee the cards.

 

[Triggaaar]

Surely the rule is broken without the need to turn the K card over, regardless of what's on the other side of the K, because the K is a consonant which automatically fails the rule?

Who said anything about consonants breaking rules? The card could have a cock on one side and a Chinese poem on the other side. If a card hasn't got a vowel on it, then the rule cannot be broken.

 

[Triggaaar]

anyone getting confused or upset, i've found the answer and it still doesnt really make much sense. the psychologocial reasoning behind the "answer" i get, but not why one of the cards cant prove/disprove the question in the same way.

Assuming the answer says AK7, the difference with the 2 is that if there is a vowel on the other side, then the rule has been followed (because 2 is an even number), and if there is not a vowel on the other side then the rule has been followed, because if there's no vowel on a card then it's fine. Even numbers do not need a vowel on the other side.

 

[Winker]

Card A is the only one which needs to be turned as it is the only one that is affected by the rule.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

None of them. Turning over any card will prove nothing about a "rule".

 

[Lord Bracknell]

We've had almost 100 replies to this thread now. Does this mean there must be four people who have given the right answer?

Of course not.

 

[Triggaaar]

very interesting point, because SUA Seagull's point is entirely valid, but you've spotted a flaw in the setup. we are expected to assume all cards have a number on one side and letter on the other, but this isnt stated.

It isn't stated so you can't assume it. If you assume it, you're wrong.

btw the purpose of the test is not to be right, its about the reasoning you use.

Whoever said that must have got it wrong.

 

[Triggaaar]

We've had almost 100 replies to this thread now. Does this mean there must be four people who have given the right answer?

Of course not.

It seems like the 4% is the number of people that get it right when the question is a little different - when you're told there is a letter on one side and a number on the other. Not sure if it's still 4% for the quiz we were given, which didn't state that.

 

[SUA Seagull]

It seems like the 4% is the number of people that get it right when the question is a little different - when you're told there is a letter on one side and a number on the other. Not sure if it's still 4% for the quiz we were given, which didn't state that.

That's true. The original Peter Wason test did indeed divulge that the cards had letters on one side and numbers on the other (which I had assumed, even though it was unstated).

SPOILER ALERT: I have just found the puzzle on Google and it has the answer in it. For those who don't want to know, look away now! The first 3 mins of the You-tube clip are relevant to the AK27 puzzle (and employ the above assumption).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7NE7apn-PA

 

[Pevenseagull]

Doesn't matter what's on the other side of the 2.
A is sulking next to the rule and K and 7 may be subject to the rule.

 

[Triggaaar]

That's true. The original Peter Wason test did indeed divulge that the cards had letters on one side and numbers on the other (which I had assumed, even though it was unstated).

Yes, the answer to his is A7, the answer to the one Bozza posted is AK7.

 

[Icy Gull]

No unfortunately