[Albion] Are YOU falling out of love with Roberto De Zerbi?

[warmleyseagull]

Airbrushing out:
- incredible football from Oct 22 to Sept 23.
- Steele, Dunk, MacAllister, Caicideo, Enciso, JPVH, Colwill, Verbruggen, Solly, Mitoma and Hinshelwood all improved under RDZ. Solly a great example, he finally believed in himself.

Airbrushing out rather less than incredible football from Oct 23 - present. I'll give you JPVH and Solly but not sure about the others; Webster gone backwards, Dahoud disaster, Fati waste of money (both RDZ inspired apparently), Estupinan from best LB in PL to below average (if perhaps due to being played when shouldn't have been but that is coach's problem); Ferguson less said the better.

End of the day we don't really know what would have happened under any other coach. 29 points from 14 PL games (and incredible football) prior to RDZ suggests we were doing pretty well under GP once he discovered MC, and that several players had also upped their game.

My point is that RDZ is getting too much credit for what was already in place and for the efforts of others. I think we would have finished 6th if GP had stayed and then he would have had demi god rather than pariah status. It is a team game off the pitch as well as on; GP/RDZ both have benefitted hugely from TB's common sense and algorithms; PB's astute management; excellent recruitment team. Would it have been hugely different with any other coach?

 

[Mont-Colt65]

Because Chelsea courted him, his form dipped and the manager decided to pick another player in his place.

RDZ still picked RS, and he still got the Wembley semi-final, clearly a player RDZ still wanted around. Amazing the narratives that come out.

Nothing should stay static in football business. Players come and go.
It is a very odd behaviour for someone in his managerial position to interminably whine in public about players he no longer has, or make a veiled threat about the club not recruiting established players or selling current existing players. If he were to stay next season, we would, no doubt, continue to hear him whining about deprivation of players we were set to sell this summer, and a lack of replacements of adequate quality and experience that should match his ambition.

 

[Beanstalk]

Oh, I'm expecting -- perhaps hoping for -- the biggest of all flounces and even that won't dim what he's done for the club and the thrills he's delivered.

Yeah, I don't think it would particularly change anything. I'm not sure what you want from football if you don't love a highly entertaining, well dressed Italian fireball running around the sideline like a nutter, giving everything he has into managing your club, and delivering the impossible.

Would it really be better if we had a well mannered bloke from Solihull telling us that our ceiling is 9th and we should all pipe down? Give me De Zerbi and his sky high ambition every single day of the week, even if it ends in flames (I don't think it will FWIW - I'm still convinced a good season next year and Pep stepping down means he walks into the City job with everyone's blessing).

 

[Exilegull]

How do you know we didn't do the scouting? You've got no idea what the club did when looking at Dahoud, it doesn't strike me as a move TB and co would suddenly make though, to abandon our well thought out recruitment process for one player just because the manager wanted him. Not every transfer will be perfect no matter how much scouting we do, and how much the player stacks up within our databases. Look at Alireza Jahanbakhsh, we tracked him for years before finally signing him, he had everything going for him to be a success here, by all accounts he was a hard worker in training, top bloke and well liked in the squad and had been a vital part of every club he'd played for previously. It didn't work here for him. It happens.

Im not saying I dont know we didnt do the scouting Im saying a lot points to not doing it. The player was bad got evicted from matchday squads showed poor attitude on the pitch and now been in trouble for Syria it looks to me we didnt properly scout him as player and person. Not saying there isn´t a chance we scouted him a lot and just failed completely but Dortmund fans were happy to let him go had done next to nothing there

 

[brighton_tom]

Still love him, and feel for him with all the injury frustrations this season.

 

[Justice]

Airbrushing out rather less than incredible football from Oct 23 - present. I'll give you JPVH and Solly but not sure about the others; Webster gone backwards, Dahoud disaster, Fati waste of money (both RDZ inspired apparently), Estupinan from best LB in PL to below average (if perhaps due to being played when shouldn't have been but that is coach's problem).

End of the day we don't really know what would have happened under any other coach. 29 points from 14 PL games (and incredible football) prior to RDZ suggests we were doing pretty well under GP once he discovered MC, and that several players had also upped their game.

My point is that RDZ is getting too much credit for what was already in place and for the efforts of others. I think we would have finished 6th if GP had stayed and then he would have had demi god rather than pariah status. It is a team game off the pitch as well as on; GP/RDZ both have benefitted hugely from TB's common sense and algorithms; PB's astute management; excellent recruitment team. Would it have been hugely different with any other coach?

Airbrushing out how we topped the group of death in the Europa league, obliterating Spurs, smashed Palace (something Potter never achieved) Potter isn’t coming back get over it.

 

[Betfair Bozo]

If you'll forgive the slight aftertiming this was always going to be a tougher season in the league. I personally felt we had a decent chance in the Europa League and am disappointed about how that ended but the injuries we have had made even competing on one front tricky. If I have any reservations about RDZ it is simply that he sometimes appears to be a tad unrealistic in his expectations but, in truth, we don't know what conversations have taken place, we don't know which, if any, players he has asked for and whether the club has overruled him. (Matviyenko, for example, was supposedly a target but Shakhtar apparently wanted a lot more than the £25m we reportedly offered. Fine, move on then.) A good summer window (viz. don't sell any key players and bring in 2 or 3 more) plus the returning injured players we really ought to be challenging again for Europe and having a chance in the cups. Much more than that is asking a lot. Is that enough for RDZ? I guess we'll see but I hope he fancies a crack at next season at least.

 

[warmleyseagull]

Airbrushing out how we topped the group of death in the Europa league, obliterating Spurs, smashed Palace (something Potter never achieved) Potter isn’t coming back get over it.

Selective evidence depending on what you want to believe. Europa League was great, but very lucky in Athens, and could have lost to Marseilles at home. Hindsight would have been better to come 2nd and be in QF as Marseilles have achieved. Spurs was nearly the comeback from the dead that would have been embarrassing. Not sure one win over Palace quite cuts it.

Read what I said: I don't want GP back, never said it, just that he led a team to 29 points from 14 games playing some great football. He f***ed off, dont want him back.

 

[Simster]

Airbrushing out rather less than incredible football from Oct 23 - present. I'll give you JPVH and Solly but not sure about the others; Webster gone backwards, Dahoud disaster, Fati waste of money (both RDZ inspired apparently), Estupinan from best LB in PL to below average (if perhaps due to being played when shouldn't have been but that is coach's problem); Ferguson less said the better.

End of the day we don't really know what would have happened under any other coach. 29 points from 14 PL games (and incredible football) prior to RDZ suggests we were doing pretty well under GP once he discovered MC, and that several players had also upped their game.

My point is that RDZ is getting too much credit for what was already in place and for the efforts of others. I think we would have finished 6th if GP had stayed and then he would have had demi god rather than pariah status. It is a team game off the pitch as well as on; GP/RDZ both have benefitted hugely from TB's common sense and algorithms; PB's astute management; excellent recruitment team. Would it have been hugely different with any other coach?

Exactly this.

RDZ is a undoubtedly a good coach but he was set up nicely by a) Potter who had eventually got it right and b) inheriting our greatest squad ever. The teams we put out at Arsenal and Liverpool that season are literally the back-bone of a title winning squad.

I don't want him to leave but have had enough of the whining-fuelled speculation. Plus as mentioned above, some players have gone backwards, and the 2 signings he insisted on were a complete waste of money.

 

[Beanstalk]

Airbrushing out how we topped the group of death in the Europa league, obliterating Spurs, smashed Palace (something Potter never achieved) Potter isn’t coming back get over it.

100% this. Why would you be swooning over a manager who not only berated the fans when things weren't so great, but left (understandably don't get me wrong) mid-season for a Premier League rival. People really don't get how unheard of that is do they? It happened twice in the last decade and I believe that Potter is the only manager to do so in this decade so far...

Instead, we've got a far better manager in RDZ who clearly has a far higher ceiling. He may not break that ceiling with us, but if not he's delivered so much more than we could've dreamed of so far AND most importantly, he is still our manager (and looks likely he will be for another season more at least). I just don't get how anyone could want to go back.

 

[Doc Lynam]

I'm less bothered than you about what he's said. He's extremely open and, with that, you have to take the rough with the smooth. I'd rather managers were open. We have a model, which is to provide a platform for up-and-coming players, managers, etc, and he's part of that. Contained within that model is the expectation that personnel will move on at some point.
He was asked about the contract situation, and responded honestly. He's still got two further seasons on his contract as far as I know, and I'm not going to beat him up about not signing a new contract (the club could have offered him a longer one when they signed him up) nor that he's publicly revealed that he hasn't signed a new contract.
Of course our success is down to the way our club is run, the vision, information and grasp of it that TB provides, and the oversight and control that PB exercises, but it's also effected by the playing and coaching staff, and RDZ has done wonders for us, implemented a thrilling playing style (which, granted, doesn't look good at the moment) and not only raised expectations but delivered them too.
When he leaves, I'll be grateful for what he's done, just like I remain grateful for the contributions of CH and GP.

It seems the only thing we disagree on is him talking publicly. I’m all for honesty, I just don’t see why those honest discussions can’t happen in private till the appropriate time.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I think RDZ feels that he could have done more , perhaps should have done more . Its fine margins . Several conversions of draws to wins and Europe would be there . That doesn't mean its not been a brilliant season and i'm of course aware of all the other factors in play - luck, the summer sales, how competitive this league is, injuries - but i still think we should be looking at Sheff Utd, Burnley (x2), Fulham, even Liverpool (H) and thinking What If ?
What if we'd gone away to Roma and comeback with only a 2-0 defeat ? Wolves (A) in the Cup - an equaliser there, winning on penalties, even the FA Cup might have opened up for us.
Don't you think Barber/Bloom - even though they talk the right story in terms of progression in public and of course are fully aware of Albion re: wages, income - think similar ? Hence underperformed.

No. I think they will think there were opportunities to have overperformed / overachieved but we haven't taken them. Plenty of moments we could have progressed in cups, or had a few more points - but that doesn't equal underperformance. I'd find it hard with the squad we have that a season spent entirely (so far) in the top half of the table, and winning our Europa League group is underperforming for this football club.

 

[Marshy]

The love is as strong as ever

 

[Simster]

100% this. Why would you be swooning over a manager who not only berated the fans when things weren't so great, but left (understandably don't get me wrong) mid-season for a Premier League rival. People really don't get how unheard of that is do they? It happened twice in the last decade and I believe that Potter is the only manager to do so in this decade so far...

Instead, we've got a far better manager in RDZ who clearly has a far higher ceiling. He may not break that ceiling with us, but if not he's delivered so much more than we could've dreamed of so far AND most importantly, he is still our manager (and looks likely he will be for another season more at least). I just don't get how anyone could want to go back.

I'm just wondering what will happen if RDZ gets an manager offer from a club that traditionally competes (and has won it twice) in the Champions League. I mean do you honestly think he would hang around any longer than Potter did?

I don't particularly want Potter back, and agree RDZ is a better manager, but no, he is not a FAR better manager at all. And the stats back that up. The bottom line for me is that I've fallen out of love with him because of the constant whining despite being backed by Bloom, plus he has been unable to get the players to perform for most of 2024. What is it? A point a game through 2024?

If he was someone our fans struggled to warm to in the first place (like, say, Everton fans with Benitez), he'd be getting slaughtered here - and there would be calls for his head by now.

 

[Justice]

100% this. Why would you be swooning over a manager who not only berated the fans when things weren't so great, but left (understandably don't get me wrong) mid-season for a Premier League rival. People really don't get how unheard of that is do they? It happened twice in the last decade and I believe that Potter is the only manager to do so in this decade so far...

Instead, we've got a far better manager in RDZ who clearly has a far higher ceiling. He may not break that ceiling with us, but if not he's delivered so much more than we could've dreamed of so far AND most importantly, he is still our manager (and looks likely he will be for another season more at least). I just don't get how anyone could want to go back.

I think some are happier with a yes man and happy to come second best. I felt that after the recent Liverpool game praising the performance like it was a great achievement, Palace went there and won ffs.
Going back to Potter to make that decision so quickly and the staff that followed him that all had to have been discussed before the official approach he’s a snake and people are still pinning for him

 

[Guinness Boy]

But maybe this time we did sign a player on the whim of the manager because nothing and I mean nothing indicates we did enough scouting with Dahoud. Mentioned as perfect for our style of play looks like a Championship player for a month or two gets sent off never seen again and shipped away with barely a word mentioning his departure it was a key signing and a terrible one

Key player? He was FREE.

No one, not one player gets signed by Brighton without the recruitment team OKing it. It's been like that since Bloom took over.

 

[Justice]

Selective evidence depending on what you want to believe. Europa League was great, but very lucky in Athens, and could have lost to Marseilles at home. Hindsight would have been better to come 2nd and be in QF as Marseilles have achieved. Spurs was nearly the comeback from the dead that would have been embarrassing. Not sure one win over Palace quite cuts it.

Read what I said: I don't want GP back, never said it, just that he led a team to 29 points from 14 games playing some great football. He f***ed off, dont want him back.

You have to have some luck in football it’s all fine margins at the end of the day, you could flip that and say if the VAR had drawn the lines properly at Palace and Attwell and his VAR assistant wasn’t a cheat we could have finished in the top four.

 

[Doc Lynam]

Key player? He was FREE.

No one, not one player gets signed by Brighton without the recruitment team OKing it. It's been like that since Bloom took over.

You can still invest a lot of time, energy and expectation into a player that’s free. I think RDZ expected a lot more from Dahoud, but I’m only speculating.

 

[Flounce]

I am finding this thread a really interesting discussion and good points being made whichever side of the fence you sit, other than a few who keep repeating the same stuff ad nauseum.

I am struggling to understand how some have NEVER been in love though! How could you not love what RDZ did until the aftermath of Roma?

 

[jackalbion]

Airbrushing out rather less than incredible football from Oct 23 - present. I'll give you JPVH and Solly but not sure about the others; Webster gone backwards, Dahoud disaster, Fati waste of money (both RDZ inspired apparently), Estupinan from best LB in PL to below average (if perhaps due to being played when shouldn't have been but that is coach's problem); Ferguson less said the better.

End of the day we don't really know what would have happened under any other coach. 29 points from 14 PL games (and incredible football) prior to RDZ suggests we were doing pretty well under GP once he discovered MC, and that several players had also upped their game.

My point is that RDZ is getting too much credit for what was already in place and for the efforts of others. I think we would have finished 6th if GP had stayed and then he would have had demi god rather than pariah status. It is a team game off the pitch as well as on; GP/RDZ both have benefitted hugely from TB's common sense and algorithms; PB's astute management; excellent recruitment team. Would it have been hugely different with any other coach?

We would not have finished 6th with Potter, I think that needs putting to bed. He beat a dire Leicester City with a cardboard cut out in goal, don't think he had consistency in his locker. He never got Solly scoring like Roberto did.