[Football] Are the shackles off or is this a false dawn

[rogersix]

We'll never know, unless we were in the dressing room (and I assume no-one on here was). Did he actually brief them, "Right lads, get out there and huddle round the penalty area and six yard box like frightened sheep encircled by a pack of ravening wolves" or did he say, "Keep you shape, but FFS try defending a little further upfield and move forward faster to support attacks when we have the ball in their half"?
The fact that they did huddle round the six yard box like frightened sheep may not have actually been what they were briefed to do.

Anyway, this thread was obviously set up to gratify those who want a bit more CH bashing, who would like us to believe they were calling 'Hughton out' on here long before Uncle Tony got his long knife out, so just for balance (and not for personal conviction - I personally think Potter is doing a good job, and hope he continues to do so) I'll give you three words:

New. Manager. Bounce.

Three words for you

Completely. Different. Philosophy.

 

[LamieRobertson]

We'll never know, unless we were in the dressing room (and I assume no-one on here was). Did he actually brief them, "Right lads, get out there and huddle round the penalty area and six yard box like frightened sheep encircled by a pack of ravening wolves" or did he say, "Keep you shape, but FFS try defending a little further upfield and move forward faster to support attacks when we have the ball in their half"?
The fact that they did huddle round the six yard box like frightened sheep may not have actually been what they were briefed to do.

Anyway, this thread was obviously set up to gratify those who want a bit more CH bashing, who would like us to believe they were calling 'Hughton out' on here long before Uncle Tony got his long knife out, so just for balance (and not for personal conviction - I personally think Potter is doing a good job, and hope he continues to do so) I'll give you three words:

New. Manager. Bounce.

Aye it’s the way I see it too......and yet CH ‘supporters’ are being told to move on

 

[BBassic]

There was a period in the first half yesterday where we had possession in their half and there was only ONE Brighton player in our half of the pitch and that was Maty Ryan.

All three centre backs, the wing backs, the midfield and the attackers were up in West Hams faces and they couldn't get out.

It was beautiful to watch.

 

[Nobby]

It was a very good game to watch. Albion unlucky overall. 1.82 exp G vs 0.77

One point ahead of the Chris Hughton tracker after two games.

 

[GT49er]

Three words for you

Completely. Different. Philosophy.

Don't really need 'em, thanks, although they are of course perfectly compatible with "I personally think Potter is doing a good job, and hope he continues to do so".

 

[Nobby]

We played the same style with none of the new pacey players on the pitch v Watford. It is not about individual players, it is about STYLE.

And also about results

 

[Titanic]

And also about results

Not for me. I am just enjoying watching us play.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Not for me. I am just enjoying watching us play.

You can’t ignore results.....good results breed confidence for the players and generally results in them playing better ...more entertaining......etc

 

[SussexSeahawk]

As ever this comes down to two questions: 'are the results going to be better under Potter than Hughton?' and 'would you rather worse results to see more interesting football?'

The answer to the first question looks to be yes but I think the latter question is influencing people's memory. If you asked the bookies when we came up what our chances of staying up 2 years in a row was I believe it would be around 30%. In terms of results overall our first two years were a huge success. Of course based on the end of last season it is unclear whether that would continue going forward. Imo whether we are better or not was the only consideration of Bloom: by his analysis we would be better under Potter's tactics so we went that way. This has nothing to do with 'shackles'.

The other question which seem to conflate with the first is about how much value should be placed on playing attractive football. Imo it's incredibly minimal: the primary thing that I care about is Albion winning and the 'not playing attractive football' trope only ever comes out when results aren't going well. Stoke fans used to love playing under Pulis, Cardiff and Burnley fans get great entertainment playing 'their' way. Most people on this forum were fine with playing defensive football when we were beating West Ham 3-0 away or beating Arsenal.

Imo the majority of those complaining about their 'entertainment value' last year need to take a look at where we are. Albion are in the toughest league they have ever been in and surviving twice has been an incredible achievement. If you genuinely prefer us attacking Spurs and losing 5-1 rather than keeping it tight even if you think we would be less likely to get a result then I don't really understand it. If we're accepting that going to the football is about 'entertainment value' then maybe Barber was right all along in calling us customers.

 

[Titanic]

You can’t ignore results.....good results breed confidence for the players and generally results in them playing better ...more entertaining......etc

If you gain confidence from a lucky point or win, then it is FALSE and will ultimately founder. If you gain confidence from your performance, despite the result, then you can build on it - and results will come.

 

[LamieRobertson]

If you gain confidence from a lucky point or win, then it is FALSE and will ultimately founder. If you gain confidence from your performance, despite the result, then you can build on it - and results will come.

Who says we were talking about lucky wins ...and you bet we will have a few of them

 

[seagull_special]

Let’s smash saints first....

I think they will have a similar trajectory to us, they played very well against Liverpool yesterday and were well in the game against Burnley until they hit a purple and scored three in about twelve minutes. They have a progressive manager and the game will be a tough one, I think we will go toe to toe throughout the season.

 

[pasty]

Shackles definitely OFF

1-1 with 10 minutes to go last season would have seen 11 men behind the ball trying to hold onto the point. Thoroughly enjoyed the match yesterday, and it's a long time since I've said that about a match we didn't win.

 

[dazzer6666]

Were loose on the NSC header needs replacing with Shackles Off

Were unshackled

 

[Icy Gull]

As ever this comes down to two questions: 'are the results going to be better under Potter than Hughton?' and 'would you rather worse results to see more interesting football?'

The answer to the first question looks to be yes but I think the latter question is influencing people's memory. If you asked the bookies when we came up what our chances of staying up 2 years in a row was I believe it would be around 30%. In terms of results overall our first two years were a huge success. Of course based on the end of last season it is unclear whether that would continue going forward. Imo whether we are better or not was the only consideration of Bloom: by his analysis we would be better under Potter's tactics so we went that way. This has nothing to do with 'shackles'.

The other question which seem to conflate with the first is about how much value should be placed on playing attractive football. Imo it's incredibly minimal: the primary thing that I care about is Albion winning and the 'not playing attractive football' trope only ever comes out when results aren't going well. Stoke fans used to love playing under Pulis, Cardiff and Burnley fans get great entertainment playing 'their' way. Most people on this forum were fine with playing defensive football when we were beating West Ham 3-0 away or beating Arsenal.

Imo the majority of those complaining about their 'entertainment value' last year need to take a look at where we are. Albion are in the toughest league they have ever been in and surviving twice has been an incredible achievement. If you genuinely prefer us attacking Spurs and losing 5-1 rather than keeping it tight even if you think we would be less likely to get a result then I don't really understand it. If we're accepting that going to the football is about 'entertainment value' then maybe Barber was right all along in calling us customers.

You make some good points but we are coming at this from a different direction. Would I rather lose 5-1 to Spurs and maybe win or lose 3-2 against Saints than lose 1-0 after not having a shot against Spurs and then grind out a 1-1 against Saints. Yes, yes I would. We have more chance of winning games taking the game to the opposition. CH did a fabulous job in our first season and a half in this division. His tactics were eventually found out and I am convinced he didn’t have any plan other than plan A at this level and would probably have goen down this season.

The parting of the ways was the right move imo. We may well get relegated playing under Potter but I really doubt that I’ll mull over whether I’ll bother to go if we hit a bad patch. If after following Albion for over 40 years you think that makes me a customer rather than a fan, I have no problem with it

 

[LamieRobertson]

You make some good points but we are coming at this from a different direction. Would I rather lose 5-1 to Spurs and maybe win or lose 3-2 against Saints than lose 1-0 after not having a shot against Spurs and then grind out a 1-1 against Saints. Yes, yes I would. We have more chance of winning games taking the game to the opposition. CH did a fabulous job in our first season and a half in this division. His tactics were eventually found out and I am convinced he didn’t have any plan other than plan A at this level and would probably have goen down this season.

The parting of the ways was the right move imo. We may well get relegated playing under Potter but I really doubt that I’ll mull over whether I’ll bother to go if we hit a bad patch. If after following Albion for over 40 years you think that makes me a customer rather than a fan, I have no problem with it

I agree with that view.....despite it being a big shock at the time and taking a while to digest

 

[SussexSeahawk]

You make some good points but we are coming at this from a different direction. Would I rather lose 5-1 to Spurs and maybe win or lose 3-2 against Saints than lose 1-0 after not having a shot against Spurs and then grind out a 1-1 against Saints. Yes, yes I would. We have more chance of winning games taking the game to the opposition. CH did a fabulous job in our first season and a half in this division. His tactics were eventually found out and I am convinced he didn’t have any plan other than plan A at this level and would probably have goen down this season.

The parting of the ways was the right move imo. We may well get relegated playing under Potter but I really doubt that I’ll mull over whether I’ll bother to go if we hit a bad patch. If after following Albion for over 40 years you think that makes me a customer rather than a fan, I have no problem with it

The customer comment was more to those who would rather see entertainment over results: may as well just go to the cinema imo. You're point is that we will get better results by playing this way and I agree in this case.

I do take issue with Hughton's tactics were 'found out'. Just because results went downhill doesn't mean it was the case that managers figured out how to beat him. Unfortunately after being in the same place for a while things can become a bit stale and if you go through a bad patch and then heads get down it can be hard to come out the other side. These things seem to happen in football and I think fans and the media in general are a bit too quick to attribute that to manager incompetency.

 

[Bakero]

We'll never know, unless we were in the dressing room (and I assume no-one on here was). Did he actually brief them, "Right lads, get out there and huddle round the penalty area and six yard box like frightened sheep encircled by a pack of ravening wolves" or did he say, "Keep you shape, but FFS try defending a little further upfield and move forward faster to support attacks when we have the ball in their half"?
The fact that they did huddle round the six yard box like frightened sheep may not have actually been what they were briefed to do.

Anyway, this thread was obviously set up to gratify those who want a bit more CH bashing, who would like us to believe they were calling 'Hughton out' on here long before Uncle Tony got his long knife out, so just for balance (and not for personal conviction - I personally think Potter is doing a good job, and hope he continues to do so) I'll give you three words:

New. Manager. Bounce.

The fabled new manager bounce is usually just reversion to the mean following a sacking due to a slump. What we're witnessing is a completely different kettle of fish. As you said, Potter is doing a good job. In no time at all he's adapted the playing style and the team seem to have taken to his ideas. Long may it continue.

 

[wealdgull]

Thoroughly enjoyed the match yesterday, and it's a long time since I've said that about a match we didn't win.

This for me, as well. Of course we'd rather win, but there's a lot to be said about being entertained separate to the result.

 

[clockend1983]

Yesterday was daylight robbery.

We were a pleasure to watch.

Bring on Citeh.

Yes, the shackles are off.

Absolutely