Are the Albion on the backlash of a hate campaign

[looney]

Its easy to understand.

An article I read a while back described the albion as a club going places. Going from 8k to 20k and possibly 30k then the writing is on the wall for a few teams, especially Palace.

They may do the double over us this season or may finish above us, but if we get the Capacity increase having double the gates of palace will make a big financial impact over time. 12,000 gates are beginning to look Div 1 level wereas 20k plus is a ticket to the premeir, eventually.

Over the next 5 years barring something really weird happening we will be top flight or palarce will be div 1 or both.

Its like an ageing boxer near the top who sees an up and coming youngster moving through the ranks and thinks of retirement. Its not hatred expressed by palace scum, its fear, which will turn to bitterness.

I look forward to this.

 

[wunt be druv]

Yes, we probably are "Hated" by many followers of the beautiful game,but,it is because of jealousy and envy of what our club is now becoming,we are now a proper football club with a fantastic stadium, fan base and superb supporters.Do I give a shit what any other fan thinks of us ? NO! because in a couple of years we will be where they all want to be.They can all f*** off and disappear back up their own backsides!

 

[Cheeky Monkey]

Its easy to understand.

An article I read a while back described the albion as a club going places. Going from 8k to 20k and possibly 30k then the writing is on the wall for a few teams, especially Palace.

They may do the double over us this season or may finish above us, but if we get the Capacity increase having double the gates of palace will make a big financial impact over time. 12,000 gates are beginning to look Div 1 level wereas 20k plus is a ticket to the premeir, eventually.

Over the next 5 years barring something really weird happening we will be top flight or palarce will be div 1 or both.

Its like an ageing boxer near the top who sees an up and coming youngster moving through the ranks and thinks of retirement. Its not hatred expressed by palace scum, its fear, which will turn to bitterness.

I look forward to this.

Honestly looney, anyone would think you wrote that to wind up the BBS masses who lurk on here.

 

[Lurker]

.............. The tables don't lie you get exactly where you deserve to be in football......

Really?

Leicester, Palace, Portsmouth, Southampton, Palace ..... + others who's names escape me right now?

Offer wages they can't afford to better players than they would otherwise get, allowing them to attain higher league positions than they would otherwise have achieved, before eventually going into administration leaving unpaid debts to creditors who supported them in order to keep them going?

You think any of those clubs deserved to be in the positions they attained before they were forced to open their books up to the world and reveal their lies and deceit?

Any club that has been into administration got to where they did by cheating, and are not exactly where they deserve to be in football.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Really?

Leicester, Palace, Portsmouth, Southampton, Palace ..... + others who's names escape me right now?

Offer wages they can't afford to better players than they would otherwise get, allowing them to attain higher league positions than they would otherwise have achieved, before eventually going into administration leaving unpaid debts to creditors who supported them in order to keep them going?

You think any of those clubs deserved to be in the positions they attained before they were forced to open their books up to the world and reveal their lies and deceit?

Any club that has been into administration got to where they did by cheating, and are not exactly where they deserve to be in football.

All those clubs you mentioned got some or all of what they deserved. Sure they got caught out by their debts but ALL clubs did this to a certain extent. Before TB came on board what do you think we were doing? We were not even living within our means at Withdean - its what clubs did and even now SOME clubs still do it. Lets face it without TB we would be nothing and if he decides to pull his money back unless we can find someone with the same passion we will do a Pompey.

 

[looney]

Honestly looney, anyone would think you wrote that to wind up the BBS masses who lurk on here.

It does have the most pleasant of side effects.

 

[Lurker]

All those clubs you mentioned got some or all of what they deserved. Sure they got caught out by their debts but ALL clubs did this to a certain extent. Before TB came on board what do you think we were doing? We were not even living within our means at Withdean - its what clubs did and even now SOME clubs still do it. Lets face it without TB we would be nothing and if he decides to pull his money back unless we can find someone with the same passion we will do a Pompey.

Don't agree with that.
10 or even 15 point deductions are not a guarantee of a hardline punishment.
Administration should mean automatic relegation of two levels, no matter where you finish in the league in the season you enter administration.
That might stop the cavalier attitude of some teams towards the paying of wages they know they can't afford.

I accept your point that without TB we would not be in our current position, but we have got TB ... and he seems to be happy with the financial arrangements ... so comparing us with the aforementioned cheats is not a fair comparison.

 

[simpleton]

Any club that has been into administration got to where they did by cheating, and are not exactly where they deserve to be in football.

Total bollocks. The biggest cause is unforseen relegation. In Southampton's case Barclay's unilaterally halved their overdraft limit without notice when the credit crunch struck. They went into admin over a £6,000 cheque. One day the money was there, the next it wasnt.

 

[simpleton]

I accept your point that without TB we would not be in our current position, but we have got TB ... and he seems to be happy with the financial arrangements ... so comparing us with the aforementioned cheats is not a fair comparison.

Albion are actually in a worse situation. Most of the clubs mentioned (apart from Pompey who did gamble recklessly and lost) were doing fine - balanced income and expenditure using only ticket money, merchandising and tv until something went wrong. Albion would be straight into admin if anything ever happended to TB ala Mathew Harding. The stadium debt alone would drag the club down.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Don't agree with that.
10 or even 15 point deductions are not a guarantee of a hardline punishment.
Administration should mean automatic relegation of two levels, no matter where you finish in the league in the season you enter administration.
That might stop the cavalier attitude of some teams towards the paying of wages they know they can't afford.

I accept your point that without TB we would not be in our current position, but we have got TB ... and he seems to be happy with the financial arrangements ... so comparing us with the aforementioned cheats is not a fair comparison.

I never compared anyone with us - I said the tables don't really lie and they don't

So you don't think we are/will be paying wages we can't afford?? It makes me laugh when people think that the club are raking in the money just because we get 20k supporters in the amex.

There is so much to the finances of a club. Remember TB only gave the £100m as a loan in 2008/9 - True supporter or not a pretty shrewd move to stick all that money in a building project virtually guaranteed success just as banks and institutions are going bust!

Football clubs are a money pit, successful ones survive, unsuccessful ones go bust.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Albion are actually in a worse situation. Most of the clubs mentioned (apart from Pompey who did gamble recklessly and lost) were doing fine - balanced income and expenditure using only ticket money, merchandising and tv until something went wrong. Albion would be straight into admin if anything ever happended to TB ala Mathew Harding. The stadium debt alone would drag the club down.

There is no stadium debt. It has been paid for in cash, so to speak. When Southampton's owner dropped dead last year, TB was asked at the Fans Forum if anything happened to him, would we be ok. He said the money was ring fenced and that his family wouldn't be wanting anything. So don't worry about the stadium.
We would have to find a new owner but we wouldn't be in debt.

 

[Titus]

I take it the thread starter isn't very bright.

 

[NMH]

All those clubs you mentioned got some or all of what they deserved. Sure they got caught out by their debts but ALL clubs did this to a certain extent. Before TB came on board what do you think we were doing? We were not even living within our means at Withdean - its what clubs did and even now SOME clubs still do it. Lets face it without TB we would be nothing and if he decides to pull his money back unless we can find someone with the same passion we will do a Pompey.

Actually, we were one of very few clubs 'living within our means', when we were at Withdean under the chairmanship of Dick Knight. He was smart to not be tempted to spend, but perhaps could have disappointed our own fans by selling players at the top of their game like BZ. Instead of going into debts and allowing the club to get out of his financial control, he lost money and relied on small blessings like compensations for Coppell, and Gareth Barry, and (finally) the sale of Zamora, as well as help from shareholders. The Albion weren't in debt up to the eyeballs, but we were stretched beyond having money to play with by filing planning permissions, fighting councils, and such expensive business foibles that were beyong most of the club's control.
The final straw to break DK's back was obviously the banks ultimately deciding the financial climate was too risky to be loaning tens of millions for a little football club, even if they were frugal and modest about their expenditure. No guarantee of returns, perhaps the club might not pull in more than 7,000 average gates, maybe success would not come and they'd be sorting out what they'd do with a repossession on a football ground! I might see their point, but Tony Bloom and all who sail with him are proving to be shrewd enough not to lose their shirts, are willing to stick their necks out, and will surely reap the eventual benefits.

Deserving? I'd say we deserve a little fat after the lean years! We can revel in what we have now, and should be very pleased to be still at the races. When we edge above a team in the league though, we can also get a little cocky and arrogant - that's the nature of fans. The supporters our fans do this to, will curl their lips a bit if they felt sorry for us in past time, and if they came to Fans United we ought not to be kicking them if they are down. But, it's a right we reserve to puff our chest when we are doing alright now, and I wouldn't apologize for that. It's our time, our turn again. That's all.

 

[NMH]

Albion are actually in a worse situation. Most of the clubs mentioned (apart from Pompey who did gamble recklessly and lost) were doing fine - balanced income and expenditure using only ticket money, merchandising and tv until something went wrong. Albion would be straight into admin if anything ever happended to TB ala Mathew Harding. The stadium debt alone would drag the club down.

You what? simpleton.

 

[sir albion]

Actually, we were one of very few clubs 'living within our means', when we were at Withdean under the chairmanship of Dick Knight. He was smart to not be tempted to spend, but perhaps could have disappointed our own fans by selling players at the top of their game like BZ. Instead of going into debts and allowing the club to get out of his financial control, he lost money and relied on small blessings like compensations for Coppell, and Gareth Barry, and (finally) the sale of Zamora, as well as help from shareholders. The Albion weren't in debt up to the eyeballs, but we were stretched beyond having money to play with by filing planning permissions, fighting councils, and such expensive business foibles that were beyong most of the club's control.
The final straw to break DK's back was obviously the banks ultimately deciding the financial climate was too risky to be loaning tens of millions for a little football club, even if they were frugal and modest about their expenditure. No guarantee of returns, perhaps the club might not pull in more than 7,000 average gates, maybe success would not come and they'd be sorting out what they'd do with a repossession on a football ground! I might see their point, but Tony Bloom and all who sail with him are proving to be shrewd enough not to lose their shirts, are willing to stick their necks out, and will surely reap the eventual benefits.

Deserving? I'd say we deserve a little fat after the lean years! We can revel in what we have now, and should be very pleased to be still at the races. When we edge above a team in the league though, we can also get a little cocky and arrogant - that's the nature of fans. The supporters our fans do this to, will curl their lips a bit if they felt sorry for us in past time, and if they came to Fans United we ought not to be kicking them if they are down. But, it's a right we reserve to puff our chest when we are doing alright now, and I wouldn't apologize for that. It's our time, our turn again. That's all.

Losing 1 or 2 million a season was not living within our means at withdean

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

Having a 30,000-seat stadium (and filling it, which doesn't sound like a problem at the moment, but you never know) has only put us back on the road to breaking even. We fell a long way behind the pace while at Withdean, we've got a long way to go to catch up, and it's thanks to TB that we can contemplate the future we do.

As some of you know, I've always deplored the rich benefactor model. It leaves clubs with "ambition" (which, too often, equates to ideas above their station - see everyone from Portsmouth to Rushden & Diamonds) open to exploitation by speculators, fantasists, money launderers and all sorts of nutters and marginal figures - from Spencer Trethewy to Ali al-Faraj, who managed to pass the Premier League's Fit and Proper Persons test while apparently not actually existing.

TB is different in that he's an Albion fan of proven pedigree, and we rejoice. But we got lucky. No wonder that supporters of some other clubs are jealous, and probably hoping that TB turns out to be no better than Simon Jordan - or Mark Goldberg.

 

[Acker79]

Total bollocks. The biggest cause is unforseen relegation. In Southampton's case Barclay's unilaterally halved their overdraft limit without notice when the credit crunch struck. They went into admin over a £6,000 cheque. One day the money was there, the next it wasnt.

That doesn't read right. If they were planning on using the overdraft to cover a cheque, the money was never there - just the option to spend money they didn't yet have.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Actually, we were one of very few clubs 'living within our means', when we were at Withdean under the chairmanship of Dick Knight. He was smart to not be tempted to spend, but perhaps could have disappointed our own fans by selling players at the top of their game like BZ. Instead of going into debts and allowing the club to get out of his financial control, he lost money and relied on small blessings like compensations for Coppell, and Gareth Barry, and (finally) the sale of Zamora, as well as help from shareholders. The Albion weren't in debt up to the eyeballs, but we were stretched beyond having money to play with by filing planning permissions, fighting councils, and such expensive business foibles that were beyong most of the club's control.
The final straw to break DK's back was obviously the banks ultimately deciding the financial climate was too risky to be loaning tens of millions for a little football club, even if they were frugal and modest about their expenditure. No guarantee of returns, perhaps the club might not pull in more than 7,000 average gates, maybe success would not come and they'd be sorting out what they'd do with a repossession on a football ground! I might see their point, but Tony Bloom and all who sail with him are proving to be shrewd enough not to lose their shirts, are willing to stick their necks out, and will surely reap the eventual benefits.

Deserving? I'd say we deserve a little fat after the lean years! We can revel in what we have now, and should be very pleased to be still at the races. When we edge above a team in the league though, we can also get a little cocky and arrogant - that's the nature of fans. The supporters our fans do this to, will curl their lips a bit if they felt sorry for us in past time, and if they came to Fans United we ought not to be kicking them if they are down. But, it's a right we reserve to puff our chest when we are doing alright now, and I wouldn't apologize for that. It's our time, our turn again. That's all.

We were in debt and losing money fast - Falmer came through too late and another season or two might have seen the end of us at Withdean. Its TB's money that saved us and possibly the 2008 financial crisis that I'm guessing got him to stick a lot of money in a pretty safe asset in the present economic climate.

After all the years in the wilderness there was no way that the first two years at the amex would not be a sell out - after that we shall see........

Its a loan from TB he can call the money back if he wants/needs to but at present I don't think he will, but thats not to say that he has a bottomless wallet and never would. As long as the Prem is on the horizon I can't see any problems but I do think that in two years unless we progress from here we will drop to 14k crowds and its 40-60k crowds you need to even think about making money out of football.

 

[Bozza]

Its a loan from TB he can call the money back if he wants/needs to

Really?

So, completely hypothetically speaking, if we were to call back the c£100m tomorrow, where would it come from?

 

[Jameson]

I went through the stats yesterday, and southampton (along with five other teams) commit more fouls than us per game. For some reason (perhaps reputation, perhaps player behaviour toward officials, perhaps the amex exists in a twilight zone) we get more yellows per game than the teams that commit more fouls than us (southampton get the joint second fewest yellow cards despite being joint 19th for fouls committed (with palace)).

View attachment 29298
(click to enlarge)

That lonely marker far away from the cluster about the trendline? That's brighton. (7.5% of our yellows are dissent, 6.25% of our opponent's yellows are for dissent, not the massive difference that would explain it, imo)

This is a very useful analysis and tends to back up Gus's previous frustration and his stated plan to talk to the league about why we get so many bookings etc. I wonder if the club do this sort of analysis? Perhaps they should.