Are schools loosing control

[studio150]

School's out for summer, school's out for ever....

Now remind me, when was that a number one hit record.

1972 was it really that long ago

 

[lawros left foot]

were you beaten as a kid then
regards
DR

I had the cane three times at school, six strokes each time. Once for smoking, once for defrauding the school dinner money ticket system, and once forlaughing at a teacher who slipped over.


The school of hard knocks, indeed

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I suppose a lot has to do with the schools having a hand tied behind the back so to speak,fear of discipline for risk of running into a lawsuit may come into it too,also general standards have fallen across the board,i mean even the F word is getting more common place on normal TV these days.

where's it all leading to in LIFE OUT OF SCHOOL some of these kids work in shops and haven't got a clue in basic manners when dealing with people, I've seen it for myself
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I had the cane three times at school, six strokes each time. Once for smoking, once for defrauding the school dinner money ticket system, and once forlaughing at a teacher who slipped over.


The school of hard knocks, indeed

fair play, at least you knew the punishment was there
regards
DR

 

[supaseagull]

I coach kids from Paca, Patcham, Hove Park, Blatch, Shoreham Academy, PCS, Stringer, Cardinal Newman and Downlands both boys and girls. Aged 12-15...all from different backgrounds- there are kids who have issues and some of their friends do as well.
However, despite some having more issues than others I see nothing in any of those lads or girls that makes me think there are any different issues than there were when I was growing up in the 80s.
Teenage kids are often demonised because of the way they look or dress as they are perceived in the media to be threatening. The whole "hug a hoodie" attitude by Cameron a few years back was patronising and lacked respect and this is all that most kids want.

Granted life is very very different in Sussex than it is in inner city London and that is more to do with a lack of things to do. We are fortunate that many kids have grassroots football or other sports and activities to take a sense of pride in, whereas those who don't are usually the ones who struggle. That said I do believe that consoles are generally a good thing as they encourage social play amongst friends- often my youngest plays online with 10-15 of his friends - something that wasn't possible 20 years ago and that's amazing.

If teachers believe they need to wear cameras in schools because they feel threatened then I'd suggest it's because there is a huge disconnect in respect between the pupil population and the staff where one feels the other is trying to undermine the other.

I don't profess to know the answers but what I've found with the lads in particular is that if you respect them, don't patronise them, let them know there's a line but be relaxed enough to have a laugh and a banter with them then you will get so much reward back in return.




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[lawros left foot]

fair play, at least you knew the punishment was there
regards
DR

Yeah, the first two were a fair cop, but I was very pissed off with the third time, no sense of humour some people.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

where's it all leading to in LIFE OUT OF SCHOOL some of these kids work in shops and haven't got a clue in basic manners when dealing with people, I've seen it for myself
regards
DR

I have the same fears,makes me genuinely fear for the nation 30 to 40 years from now.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I coach kids from Paca, Patcham, Hove Park, Blatch, Shoreham Academy, PCS, Stringer, Cardinal Newman and Downlands both boys and girls. Aged 12-15...all from different backgrounds- there are kids who have issues and some of their friends do as well.
However, despite some having more issues than others I see nothing in any of those lads or girls that makes me think there are any different issues than there were when I was growing up in the 80s.
Teenage kids are often demonised because of the way they look or dress as they are perceived in the media to be threatening. The whole "hug a hoodie" attitude by Cameron a few years back was patronising and lacked respect and this is all that most kids want.

Granted life is very very different in Sussex than it is in inner city London and that is more to do with a lack of things to do. We are fortunate that many kids have grassroots football or other sports and activities to take a sense of pride in, whereas those who don't are usually the ones who struggle. That said I do believe that consoles are generally a good thing as they encourage social play amongst friends- often my youngest plays online with 10-15 of his friends - something that wasn't possible 20 years ago and that's amazing.

If teachers believe they need to wear cameras in schools because they feel threatened then I'd suggest it's because there is a huge disconnect in respect between the pupil population and the staff where one feels the other is trying to undermine the other.

I don't profess to know the answers but what I've found with the lads in particular is that if you respect them, don't patronise them, let them know there's a line but be relaxed enough to have a laugh and a banter with them then you will get so much reward back in return.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

what about parents coming into the school calling the shots ,
regards
DR

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

some of these kids work in shops and haven't got a clue in basic manners when dealing with people

Have you met the general public though? They're more often than not a bunch of knobs with a sense of entitlement. You only need to go to the AMEX to see how rude punters are.

 

[studio150]

Bring back Grammar schools and send all the trouble makers to Secondary Moderns.

I think that the issues at schools reflects the shift in society since the 1970s. Back then teachers were held in high regard, and had (to a degree) free reign to impose discipline within schools and where punishment was handed out, they would be supported by the parents.

Since then, the ability to hand out punishment has been drawn in, which combined with a reduction in standing of teachers within the community. Combined with a more litigious society has meant that teachers are hindered in dealing with trouble makers.

Also with the need to teach down to those less able, means that brighter pupils also become bored, or frustrated with lessons being disrupted by other pupils.

While not wanting to go back to the days of the cane maybe there should be a 2 strikes and suspended rule, with exclusions for violence. This should also extend to parents.

Not sure whether cameras will be a success or not, unless the recordings can be used to achieve more action against the pupils/parents.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Have you met the general public though? They're more often than not a bunch of knobs with a sense of entitlement. You only need to go to the AMEX to see how rude punters are.

TAKES ONE TO KNOW ONE I GUESS
regards
DR

 

[BadFish]

I appreciate that , but I bet it's a hard core of parents causing the problems , which then affects discipline on a larger scale with in the school ?
regards
DR

Schools pander to the vocal minority instead of doing what is best for the kids, does my head in.

 

[Bob'n'weave]

Some schools get it right, some fail spectacularly. I took my son out of high school in BTN due to bullying that went unchecked. They had 'safe spaces' for him, and others that felt unsafe to go at breaks. I argued that the school should be a 'safe space' and violent and aggressive pupils should be the ones excluded from break, not the ones getting bullied. I might as well have been speaking Chinese. Maybe if the 'exclusion' of disruptive/violent kids went as far as schools saying to parents 'if your child does not respect teachers and the rights of other children to learn then you will have to home educate them, here is the web-site/curriculum, good luck', the situation may change?

 

[BadFish]

Any teacher worth their salt can find ways to discipline children without the use of violence. We have made great strides in these areas and know far more about effective teaching than we did in the 'good old days'.

Sadly, as has been evidenced on this thread there are too many parents who back their children against the school making it nigh on impossible to action the discipline and consequences that the children need. If your parents back you and beleive your side of the story their is no reason at all to accept responsibility for your actions.

 

[vegster]

Went to the council top in Shoreham just after crimbo to dump an old fashioned fire, stopped at the entrance to ask the guy in the booth which area I should dump it in and was shocked to see him wearing a body cam. It's everywhere now.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Any teacher worth their salt can find ways to discipline children without the use of violence. We have made great strides in these areas and know far more about effective teaching than we did in the 'good old days'.

Sadly, as has been evidenced on this thread there are too many parents who back their children against the school making it nigh on impossible to action the discipline and consequences that the children need. If your parents back you and beleive your side of the story their is no reason at all to accept responsibility for your actions.

spot on
regards
DR

 

[BadFish]

Some schools get it right, some fail spectacularly. I took my son out of high school in BTN due to bullying that went unchecked. They had 'safe spaces' for him, and others that felt unsafe to go at breaks. I argued that the school should be a 'safe space' and violent and aggressive pupils should be the ones excluded from break, not the ones getting bullied. I might as well have been speaking Chinese. Maybe if the 'exclusion' of disruptive/violent kids went as far as schools saying to parents 'if your child does not respect teachers and the rights of other children to learn then you will have to home educate them, here is the web-site/curriculum, good luck', the situation may change?

There is a tendancy for schools to seek a 'win win' situation where both sides of the problem are apeased and feel like they have been heard. This works in well in many situations i beleive as often it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.

Where this type of solution falls down of course is in the area of bullying. Bullying by is nature is repeated behaviour and this needs to be tracked and those responsible must be bought to task.

 

[Bob'n'weave]

Any teacher worth their salt can find ways to discipline children without the use of violence. We have made great strides in these areas and know far more about effective teaching than we did in the 'good old days'.

Sadly, as has been evidenced on this thread there are too many parents who back their children against the school making it nigh on impossible to action the discipline and consequences that the children need. If your parents back you and beleive your side of the story their is no reason at all to accept responsibility for your actions.

Agree that there are other ways than corporal punishment, detentions etc for kids with issues. Learning basic emotional management is something that is given a lot of attention in other school systems, China lead the way in this field, with 'Emotional Intelligence' high on the curriculum. PSHE would be a good conduit for this type of learning but the UK Education Dept does not see it as appropriate, far too concerned with SATS and OFSTED box ticking.

 

[Perkino]

The lack of appreciation for their education in a large number of white British students is a big factor in West Sussex schools. Unfortunately teachers don't have the reputation in society that they used to have 30/40 years ago

 

[WATFORD zero]

heard on the news that teachers in some areas will be wearing body cams to record behaviour in the class room
, also to many parents coming into schools telling staff how to treat their kids ,kids damaging school property , where's all the discipline gone FFS
regards
DR

Well there's certainly a generation snowflake on here, but up to now it's been 40 years off target. There have always been dodgy schools, areas, problems and parents, but society and education are a million miles better than the shit of 40 years ago