[Football] Are negative tactics killing the Premier League?

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

i agree with most of the comments made previously, the defensive nature is killing the game and managers are terrified of conceding buckets and therefore just put 10 men behind the ball. This won't change as far as i can see unless there is an incentive to score. I can't see it being like rugby where a team is awarded a bonus point for scoring 3 (or 4?) tries in a game, but possibly 1 bonus point for every 10 goals over a season scored or similar?

Radical, but something needs to be.

You've missed the point entirely.

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[TSB]

Let's hope so.
It's the only way to redress the absurd amounts of money involved and rash of billionaire owners (ours aside).

 

[Stat Brother]

It could be the negative tactics are actually improving the Premier League 'brand'.

Now the big 6 have to assume their competition will win every other game, they have to go after each other, a la Arsenal v Chelsea.

Let's be honest nobody in downtown Qingdao is watching Brighton v Bournemouth, but if the big games are no longer a 0-0 snorefest the popularity of the league can only increase!

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Huddersfield attacked Man United and had lots of chances and deservedly won, Palace gave as good as they got against Chelsea, Leicester attacked Spurs and won.

Leicester are a class apart from us, lets not go there.

Yes, these are the obvious two games to bring up (probably the only two such games you can bring up). Of course as we showed United are probably the only one of the top 6 you can enjoy possession against. Still Huddersfield had just 22% possession in the match, scored twice on the break. I'm not sure they did anything different to anyone else.

And Palace, well, Palace have Zaha - to answer your other question above, REALLY good players outside the top 6 are Zaha, Mahrez, Vardy, Richarlison, Sigurdsson .... Dunk, Tarkowski, Maguire... not many more

 

[Renegade]

Sometimes it looks like the smaller team is not having a go when in reality the other big team is playing so well the smaller team just isn't getting a sniff.

 

[Bigtomfu]

From the Jonathan Wilson article posted above:

In the first three seasons that Opta collected data, between 2003-04 and 2005-06, there were only three games in which one team had 70% or more of the ball. That figure rose gradually to 36 in 2016-17.

This season there have already been 37 instances. The number of games in which one team had 65% or more of possession has risen from 11 in 2003-04 to 94 last season (and 64 so far this); 60% or more is up from 63 in 2003-04 to 181 last season (and 100 so far this).

But here’s the rub it’s not about possession any more it’s what you do with it that counts.

I for one would be very happy with us conceding >65% possession in EVERY game if we then had 4 or 5 electrically fast skilful front men a la Izqueirdo who could go from defence to attack in five seconds and score a goal.

That would still be interesting to watch and would force the team with higher % possession to change their game plan as they would be in danger whenever they lost the ball.

You can make statistics show whatever you want but to my mind conceding possession against anyone is less of an issue, FEAR is the biggest issue here.

Fear of managers losing their jobs
Fear from players of losing their places in teams so they simply do what they’re instructed (don’t lose possession, pass backwards, sideways, don’t shoot when there is a pass on etc)
Fear of losing your place in the Prem

If somehow chairmen weren’t trigger happy, clubs business models were more sustainable and ultimately relegation wasn’t a life or death situation then you’d see the joy of playing return.


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[brightn'ove]

For me it's like this.

After fergie's retirement, the top level of english football went through a kind of restructuring, a transitional period. This meant that squads were unsettled, a lot of players were sold and other european giants were dominating the game. During this period there was a lot of upsets, bournemouth got some really good results in their first season in the PL for example and Leicester won the bloody league FFS!

We're in a period now where those top 6 teams have in a way sorted themselves out. They have settled squads, VERY good players and some of the best managers in the world. It wouldn't surprise me if an English team won the CL for the next 2-3 years.

This goes in cycles, Pep will go, Conte will go, Mourinho will go, Klopp will go, Pochettino will go, Wenger will retire (lol), and the upper teir of English football will again have a mini crisis, and this league will once again be hailed as one where 'anyone can beat anyone', but will consequently shit in Europe.

 

[Martlet]

There's really only one logical conclusion to all of this - establishment of a Euro Super League that the Top Six "global super clubs" can [p*ss off and] join, along with peers from Spain, Germany, PSG etc, leaving a new "Premier League" where at least the matches will be real and properly contested.

It will be a real shame for football - but the PL is basically two leagues anyway, so might as well formalise it...

 

[Easy 10]

I'm no number cruncher

And with your username as well ?? I can't help but feel deeply disillusioned. Let down even.

As to the point of debate here...two of the biggest wastes of time I have seen this season have been our games at Spurs and Chelsea. Meek to the point of surrender, zero attacking intent, literally just a case of turning up, sitting back and taking our medicine, hopefully without getting walloped. Yes you can point at some ill-fortune at times, the Spurs first goal being a case in point. But if your gameplan is to set out to camp in your own half the whole game, then frankly you invite your own luck to run out eventually.

I don't expect us to go to these places, open up and go toe-to-toe with these teams, but surely there IS more of a middle ground to be had, whereby we can break intelligently with numbers at the right time (as we did at Old Trafford) and at least carry some kind of threat.

I can understand the reasoning behind Hughton writing off some of these games before a balls been kicked. Playing a scratch side and resting players at Chelsea to focus on the Newcastle and Bournemouth games, where we'd have more of a chance of harvesting some points. But as a spectacle, it kills the game absolutely stone dead. I was bored at Spurs, and I was even more bored watching the Chelsea game, as we weren't even trying to compete. That's been the one big aspect of being in the Premier League that I really have not enjoyed. I've never seen us consciously set up to submit to the opposition before, but in the cases of the games at the top 6 teams, I guess I'll have to get used to it (for this season at least).

 

[Nixonator]

There's really only one logical conclusion to all of this - establishment of a Euro Super League that the Top Six "global super clubs" can [p*ss off and] join, along with peers from Spain, Germany, PSG etc, leaving a new "Premier League" where at least the matches will be real and properly contested.

It will be a real shame for football - but the PL is basically two leagues anyway, so might as well formalise it...

No promotion to or relegation from it please. Will be the final move to gut whatever remains of their traditional fanbases and start them on the FC United road.

When the bubble bursts they can apply to join the Bostik league etc.

 

[coagulantwolf]

So is our open system (promotion and relegation) actually killing the game?

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

You said "all the examples" of bottom 14 teams getting points off the top six were down to defending with banks of players behind the ball. I've just given you three games (all wins) where that's not the case, now you want more! So okay, how about West Brom 1-1 Arsenal last week? West Brom got lucky with the penalty but I watched that game and they had a go. In fact, they had 14 shots at Arsenal's goal. So it's clearly not the case that the ONLY way to get a result is to sit back and accept 20% possession. How many successes can you name by teams that have adopted the ultra-defensive approach?

Agree with you on the good players outside the top six though. That's pretty much my list too and it's fairly bleak when you consider it's spread over 14 clubs.

No, I don't want more, I'm good thanks

But OK, Hudds Man U, Palace Chelsea, Leicester Spurs, West Brom Arsenal. Whats the common denominator here? They were all at home, and they are all fixtures that Brighton haven't played yet. So I think we should hold fire at having a go at our own tactic for tackling the top 6 until Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs and United have visited the Amex.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Sometimes it looks like the smaller team is not having a go when in reality the other big team is playing so well the smaller team just isn't getting a sniff.

This is particularly salient when considering our game at Chelsea. I think we played pretty well, it was just so bloody hard to keep the ball, move it forward, win it back.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Outside of the top 6 only Leicester (8th) have a positive goal difference (+2) and the combined goal difference of the remaining top half of the table teams occupying 7th - 10th positions is -16.

I can't recall such a negative display from a West Ham team as last night, it was the complete opposite of what they are supposed to be about - The Academy of Football is most certainly dead.

 

[Tim Over Whelmed]

Four points for a win

 

[cheshunt seagull]

It has seemed particularly negative this season. Maybe the result of a combination of a top 6 which has broken away from the pack and a very small points gap separating most of the rest which means that the fear of relegation is very real for a lot of teams.

If many teams approach games against the top 6 with the primary aim of avoiding a heavy defeat whilst looking to pick up points in ‘winnable’ games, there could be a change in the second half of the season as the opportunities for points from ‘winnable’ games starts to run out and they have no choice but to be try and pick up points from other games.

 

[Stat Brother]

Outside of the top 6 only Leicester (8th) have a positive goal difference (+2) and the combined goal difference of the remaining top half of the table teams occupying 7th - 10th positions is -16.

I can't recall such a negative display from a West Ham team as last night, it was the complete opposite of what they are supposed to be about - The Academy of Football is most certainly dead.

I genuinely don't see what else West Ham should have done at the fag end of the Christmas period?

5 points from 4 games now undefeated in the last 3, playing for a new manager, at a side with deep rooted problems throughout the club, who thanks to those points are out of the relegation places.

Like us they now have a period of games they'll expect to collect more points from, judge them at the end of April after they have played Chelsea, Arsenal & City.
If they are 'comfortable' and still shut up shop then we can all fill our boots at slagging them off.
The same can obviously apply to the Albion.

But the teams scratching around for the odd point has to adopt a needs must approach.

 

[Eric Youngs Contact Lense]

.

I don't expect us to go to these places, open up and go toe-to-toe with these teams, but surely there IS more of a middle ground to be had, whereby we can break intelligently with numbers at the right time (as we did at Old Trafford) and at least carry some kind of threat.QUOTE]
I guess CH would argue that the same approach was adopted at all the games you mention. That we were able to do it against United more effectively was, in my opinion, simply because of the way they play (or did that afternoon). We had more time on the ball that allowed us to find more passes further forward. I think we struggle more against 3 central defenders and a flooded midfield, especially if a front 3 close us down really quickly - City, Spurs and Cheslea.. even Bournemouth last 20 mins or so.. It doesn't change the fact that the Spurs game (I didn't go to Chelsea) was hard viewing from our perspective. I blame Barcelona for all this anyway.. they created this huge reliance on possession etc. and so the only way of competing with them was to play in a smaller area of the pitch, your own half, accepting that you couldn't beat them at their own game - Inter Milan and Mourinho, Chelsea under Di Matteo, Leicester to a certain degree..