Are labour voters the worst losers in the history of the world?

[Soulman]

This is a good piece which echos how i and many others feel about the Labour party, they have been drifting for years away from the working man, tactically inept as well.

"There is really no place today for a party funded and effectively dictated to by the trades unions. But in seeking to reinvent itself and recapture relevance, the Left concocted a bizarre mixture of old-fashioned socialism and bleeding-edge American social justice, fomented in tired old Tory hatred and the politics of envy and grievance.
Of course, many ordinary folk not engrossed in the Guardian’s comment pages or Twitter won’t articulate their frustration with Labour that way. But they do see a party that no longer speaks their language or protects their interests – and they vote Ukip instead, tired of being told that their understandable concern about gargantuan immigration is “racist.”

That’s what Labour and the Left-wing press do, after all: call people names, instead of doing the hard work of rebuttal and research. When Labour leaders looks out at a country stubbornly refusing to elect them, they don’t seem to recognise their failure to relate to people, or to define themselves properly, as the problem: instead, they see a country full of racist, homophobic, xenophobic bigots who would of course buy into grievance culture and identity politics if only they were sufficiently educated."

Obviously the source will get vilified, but the content rings true with many.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/05/11/eds-dead-where-the-british-left-went-so-horribly-wrong/

 

[Soulman]

only lefties use words like "scum" don't they

are Labour supporters bad losers,34 pages says they are

apparently it was all Nigel Farage's fault

Not my work, but took from the link i put up, i can think of one that this text applies to....but i'm not pointing fingers

"The Left, despite its love of hurt feelings over facts, has always had a likability problem. Left-wing activists are often seen as petulant, hateful, childish people, with some justification. Look at Laurie Penny, darling of the Left, defending vandalism of a war memorial on Twitter. And Left-wing politicians too often come across like disingenuous, schoolmarmish, nannying prudes."

Further.
I saw the odious Harriet Harman on telly...she was saying she wanted to know properly why labour lost..
she said she didn't want anecdotal or hearsay..she wanted the real reasons..
Well either she lives on another planet or she has been striken with deafness...that she can pretend to be unaware of just why labour lost...the real truth is that the real truth is unacceptable to her and her ilk
how many times do they have to be told why they lost so resoundingly....
But the truth is unacceptable to such as Harman..they have become so removed from what was their core support
When a hopefull future Prime Minister cavorts with the likes of Russel Brand we know he has lost the plot
When this same hopeful offers English and Welsh heads on a plate to another party in exchange for support then no one can be in any doubt that this hopeful one... if made PM would follow his personal left agenda rather than the interests of either the people or the countries which make up the union

As the poem says..the English have not spoken yet....well now they have but Harriet et al are still not listening

 

[BigGully]

Good grief.

It is to David's family members' massive credit, that despite their own personal success, they are still unhappy and concerned at the plight of others. I care not that you later pretend you weren't serious - the state of contentment you wish to confer on them - that they should have no reason to 'whinge' so long as they themselves are doing well, is utterly depressingly, textbook Tory.

The context of his post was unbelievably depressing, in the one hand you guys tell anyone that cares to listen about food-banks, inevitable poverty impending doom and then when you go off to work in your privileged positions of guaranteed pensioned and guaranteed monthly salary, paid leave and you tell us of more impending doom, likely suicide and no viable future for anyone you yourself deem vulnerable or disadvantaged.

It is no more than a flawed default position that you and some others feel gives you some moral superiority.

 

[Hampster Gull]

The context of his post was unbelievably depressing, in the one hand you guys tell anyone that cares to listen about food-banks, inevitable poverty impending doom and then when you go off to work in your privileged positions of guaranteed pensioned and guaranteed monthly salary, paid leave and you tell us of more impending doom, likely suicide and no viable future for anyone you yourself deem vulnerable or disadvantaged.

It is no more than a flawed default position that you and some others feel gives you some moral superiority.

Dont forget the imminent closure of the BBC and the NHS

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

The context of his post was unbelievably depressing, in the one hand you guys tell anyone that cares to listen about food-banks, inevitable poverty impending doom and then when you go off to work in your privileged positions of guaranteed pensioned and guaranteed monthly salary, paid leave and you tell us of more impending doom, likely suicide and no viable future for anyone you yourself deem vulnerable or disadvantaged.

It is no more than a flawed default position that you and some others feel gives you some moral superiority.

It could conceivably be a default position, but I don't see that it is flawed because all the things I mentioned I KNOW to be true.

And it has nothing to do with moral superiority at all. That may be just your perception. It has purely and simply to do with caring about people, about trying to make sure people have the best chance in life.

One of my bywords, to lapse in to old biblical speak, is "judge not lest ye be judged". That means not making assumptions about other people and their values or views.

 

[Prince Monolulu]

Gotta say I am enjoying the new ToryBoy buzzwords 'for the working man/woman'.

Bring it on!

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The context of his post was unbelievably depressing, in the one hand you guys tell anyone that cares to listen about food-banks, inevitable poverty impending doom and then when you go off to work in your privileged positions of guaranteed pensioned and guaranteed monthly salary, paid leave and you tell us of more impending doom, likely suicide and no viable future for anyone you yourself deem vulnerable or disadvantaged.

It is no more than a flawed default position that you and some others feel gives you some moral superiority.

I have no default position, flawed or otherwise. I do though, recognise that there ARE plenty of vulnerable and disadvantaged people in our society. If you do not, or do not think that there are legitimate concerns over how they will be affected by massive cuts to already underfunded services, then yes, I believe my morals ARE 'superior' to yours. Sorry - I'll make no bones about that.

 

[drew]

This is a good piece which echos how i and many others feel about the Labour party, they have been drifting for years away from the working man, tactically inept as well.

"There is really no place today for a party funded and effectively dictated to by the trades unions. But in seeking to reinvent itself and recapture relevance, the Left concocted a bizarre mixture of old-fashioned socialism and bleeding-edge American social justice, fomented in tired old Tory hatred and the politics of envy and grievance.
Of course, many ordinary folk not engrossed in the Guardian’s comment pages or Twitter won’t articulate their frustration with Labour that way. But they do see a party that no longer speaks their language or protects their interests – and they vote Ukip instead, tired of being told that their understandable concern about gargantuan immigration is “racist.”

That’s what Labour and the Left-wing press do, after all: call people names, instead of doing the hard work of rebuttal and research. When Labour leaders looks out at a country stubbornly refusing to elect them, they don’t seem to recognise their failure to relate to people, or to define themselves properly, as the problem: instead, they see a country full of racist, homophobic, xenophobic bigots who would of course buy into grievance culture and identity politics if only they were sufficiently educated."

Obviously the source will get vilified, but the content rings true with many.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/05/11/eds-dead-where-the-british-left-went-so-horribly-wrong/

Of course the source will get vilified, it is a conservative news site. No one, not even a level headed tory, would expect different from them. Bit like expecting the Mail to have a heart for those less fortunate.

 

[drew]

I have no default position, flawed or otherwise. I do though, recognise that there ARE plenty of vulnerable and disadvantaged people in our society. If you do not, or do not think that there are legitimate concerns over how they will be affected by massive cuts to already underfunded services, then yes, I believe my morals ARE 'superior' to yours. Sorry - I'll make no bones about that.

Have to agree with you there.

 

[Soulman]

Of course the source will get vilified, it is a conservative news site. No one, not even a level headed tory, would expect different from them. Bit like expecting the Mail to have a heart for those less fortunate.

 

[BigGully]

I have no default position, flawed or otherwise. I do though, recognise that there ARE plenty of vulnerable and disadvantaged people in our society. If you do not, or do not think that there are legitimate concerns over how they will be affected by massive cuts to already underfunded services, then yes, I believe my morals ARE 'superior' to yours. Sorry - I'll make no bones about that.

Well at least you have accepted you complete arrogance, good for you.

We all know that there are genuinely vulnerable and disadvantages people, you do not have the exclusive rights on that acknowledgement.

I have challenged you and others previously, irrespective of any incumbent Government the figures are there for all to see, give me an example and any associated financial benefit we all contribute towards that needs increasing and then perhaps we might have a reasonable debate.

I doubt whether you have have ever bothered looking at the current level of benefit that those in need receive, its an inconvenient truth.

Dont be vague, offer a fully itemised financial benefit offered by the state where you feel demands increasing .......

 

[Stato]

This is a good piece which echos how i and many others feel about the Labour party, they have been drifting for years away from the working man, tactically inept as well.

"There is really no place today for a party funded and effectively dictated to by the trades unions. But in seeking to reinvent itself and recapture relevance, the Left concocted a bizarre mixture of old-fashioned socialism and bleeding-edge American social justice, fomented in tired old Tory hatred and the politics of envy and grievance.
Of course, many ordinary folk not engrossed in the Guardian’s comment pages or Twitter won’t articulate their frustration with Labour that way. But they do see a party that no longer speaks their language or protects their interests – and they vote Ukip instead, tired of being told that their understandable concern about gargantuan immigration is “racist.”

That’s what Labour and the Left-wing press do, after all: call people names, instead of doing the hard work of rebuttal and research. When Labour leaders looks out at a country stubbornly refusing to elect them, they don’t seem to recognise their failure to relate to people, or to define themselves properly, as the problem: instead, they see a country full of racist, homophobic, xenophobic bigots who would of course buy into grievance culture and identity politics if only they were sufficiently educated."

Obviously the source will get vilified, but the content rings true with many.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/05/11/eds-dead-where-the-british-left-went-so-horribly-wrong/

History shows that, at times of economic crisis, there is often movement in politics away from the centre. Some move to the left, some to the right. There has been evidence of this in the UK with large increases in votes for UKIP on the right and the Greens and SNP on the left. Labour have been in the middle, too centrist for those who went left and too left for those who went right.

However they did increase on their popular vote from 2010 by slightly more than the tories did. Not enough to succeed in the election, but as more people voted for Milliband than did for Howard in 2005 or Hague in 2001, it is a little early to sound a death knell. Scottish Nationalism means that the Labour Party is in a very difficult position politically and does need to build new areas of hinterland in England and Wales, but the game is the same as it always has been in the UK: win those voters who waver between soft left and soft right depending on the economic circumstances.

Commentary on the problems of the left by the right seems equally as worthless as commentary on the problems of the right by the left. It always seems to say more about the author's world view than it does about his subject.

The Labour Party has already had pointers as to how it needs to rebuild to win back those who went to UKIP, but ignored them. See attached 2012 interview with Margaret Hodge re: her defeat of the BNP in Barnet in 2010.

http://www.progressonline.org.uk/2012/11/27/‘how-we-beat-the-bnp’/

I am not comparing UKIP to the BNP, merely suggesting that she is right that complacency risks allowing the party to become disengaged. The kind of community engagement that Hodge pursued used to be prevalent in the Labour movement before it became concerned with macro politics and public relations. Making this a priority now should allow the party to build support, but more importantly, would provide support for those communities that will see the most impact from the kind of threats that come with austerity.

 

[drew]

Well at least you have accepted you complete arrogance, good for you.

We all know that there are genuinely vulnerable and disadvantages people, you do not have the exclusive rights on that acknowledgement.

I have challenged you and others previously, irrespective of any incumbent Government the figures are there for all to see, give me an example and any associated financial benefit we all contribute towards that needs increasing and then perhaps we might have a reasonable debate.

I doubt whether you have have ever bothered looking at the current level of benefit that those in need receive, its an inconvenient truth.

Dont be vague, offer a fully itemised financial benefit offered by the state where you feel demands increasing .......

With proper review there may well be arguments for increasing some benefits however, that is not the issue with the new government. Surely you are aware they have to make savings somewhere in order to balance the books and, as yet, they haven't indicated where. What they have stated is that they will give an extra £8b to the NHS. The will give tax cuts to the rich and promise not to raise income tax for anyone else. They will have to pay for the 30 hours of free child care they have promised. So where are they going to make savings or increase revenue? They will want to reduce benefits where they can, maybe child benefit, disability benefit, housing benefit. They might raise VAT as they haven't said they will pass a law stopping them!!!!

You make a rather glib comment that 'we all know genuinely vulnerable and disadvantaged people' however surely it is those that vote to do something to help them that show more compassion than those that merely 'know of them'.

 

[London Irish]

Gotta say I am enjoying the new ToryBoy buzzwords 'for the working man/woman'.

Bring it on!

Maybe they should rename themselves the Workers Party?

 

[ThePompousPaladin]

I have challenged you and others previously, irrespective of any incumbent Government the figures are there for all to see, give me an example and any associated financial benefit we all contribute towards that needs increasing and then perhaps we might have a reasonable debate.

I doubt whether you have have ever bothered looking at the current level of benefit that those in need receive, its an inconvenient truth.

Dont be vague, offer a fully itemised financial benefit offered by the state where you feel demands increasing .......

Hmmm, not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse, however.....

It is not necessarily about the amount each benefit is worth, but the amount of people that receive it. David has already told us (iirc) of people he knows that are unfit to work that have had their benefits removed. Perhaps this is too vague for you?

You seem to be very focussed in on a single line and dismissing all else said. I wonder if you presume they are lying?

Perhaps you could consider what has caused the rise in food banks? Duh.

 

[W.C.]

And people fear what would happen if we always run a deficit, until we're bankrupt.

Labour were in power for 13 years, with a huge majority, thanks to support from Murdoch. Why didn't Labour do something to stop his control then? And is it ok for Alan Sugar to donate £1m ish to the Labour party? Sorry, I mean Lord Sugar.

I wish they had. Perhaps 'Red Ed' would have. Would have loved that. And no, I don't believe it is. I would like to see a level playing field for all the parties in terms of where their money comes from. You're assuming I am a supporter of the Labour party as it is and was during the Blair/Brown years. I'm not.

And anyway, my point is about the newspaper media. Don't you agree it's ridiculous that one man can donate money to one party then use his paper to tell his readers to vote for that party? You're always going to have papers with political leanings but where we've got to is crazy.

 

[Bombadier Botty]

And anyway, my point is about the newspaper media. Don't you agree it's ridiculous that one man can donate money to one party then use his paper to tell his readers to vote for that party? You're always going to have papers with political leanings but where we've got to is crazy.

The stealth power and sway wielded by vile Tory organs like The Holy Grail and The Daily Depress over stupid people who fail to realise that they're reading nothing but propaganda comics is something Labour doesn't have in it's arsenal. I don't know enough about the print journalism industry to understand why the left doesn't have a foothold in the market between broadsheet and red top readers, leaving The Express and The Mail to run riot, whipping 'Middle England' until it's David Cameron blue in the face.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

The stealth power and sway wielded by vile Tory organs like The Holy Grail and The Daily Depress over stupid people who fail to realise that they're reading nothing but propaganda comics is something Labour doesn't have in it's arsenal. I don't know enough about the print journalism industry to understand why the left doesn't have a foothold in the market between broadsheet and red top readers, leaving The Express and The Mail to run riot, whipping 'Middle England' until it's David Cameron blue in the face.

And there is a typical leftie response.. (Didn't win,how dare people disagree with my view,I know,I'll call them names spliced with insults...the things junior kids do at school) .(Vile Tory) organs like the Daily Mail and Daily Express,over ( stupid) people...that's right,insult a huge amount of the British public as the Daily Mail has one of the largest circulations in the country. Of course the left have no such backing do they,...Guardian,Daily Mirror,New Statesmen,Daily Worker,BBC...according to you a lot of people read propaganda comics,long may it continue.

 

[BigGully]

It seems to me the usual suspects are backtracking .....

Drew ..... 'There may be arguments to increase some benefits'

The PompousPaladin ... 'its not necessarily about the amount each benefit is worth'

Not one single example, not one.

Its not glib when mentioning the disadvantaged or vulnerable, I am just trying to ascertain who these are and if the government is supporting them how most people would wish.

 

[ROSM]

And there is a typical leftie response.. (Didn't win,how dare people disagree with my view,I know,I'll call them names spliced with insults...the things junior kids do at school) .(Vile Tory) organs like the Daily Mail and Daily Express,over ( stupid) people...that's right,insult a huge amount of the British public as the Daily Mail has one of the largest circulations in the country. Of course the left have no such backing do they,...Guardian,Daily Mirror,New Statesmen,Daily Worker,BBC...according to you a lot of people read propaganda comics,long may it continue.

Go on, tell me that story again about those nasty unions in the past who slagged you off for crossing a picket line. I never tire of hearing that one, just to help all us poor lefties to understand your viewpoint once again

Thanks in advance, ever yours, The prosecco socialist