[Politics] Are Labour going to turn this country around?

[heathgate]

Britons and overseas visitors may soon find themselves paying a “hotel tax” on every overnight stay, under Treasury proposals designed to shore up the public purse as borrowing costs continue to climb.
The potential levy, part of “modelling exercises” carried out by officials, mirrors the tourist taxes in countries such as France.

....and just about everywhere else I've been too... in fact in NZ, you have to pay a specific Departure tax each time you leave the country, this type of tourist tax is relatively common all over the world except the UK... I say yes, get those tourists to pay a hotel per night tax.

 

[ROSM]

Out of interest, what were the figures for Sweden and Brazil? I notice that neither is on the list even though they both (in their very different ways) followed their own path.

There are a series of posts elsewhere on this forum about Sweden and their covid progress focusing on 4 areas

Population density - larger space between communities

Economic approach - not a travel hub, communities more self sufficient etc

General population health - starting position of population less compromised

Misinformation - Sweden did undertake a number of control measure many earlier than uk. It wasn't the free for all that many had written at the time

Brazil has some similarities in terms of misinformation and population density. However the biggest issue is quality of data. So excess deaths are nigh on impossible ti quantify with any accuracy. Despite all this, Brazil did admit to having 750k covid deaths and an excess death ratio of c290 per 100k . However many health professionals report a serious level of under reporting in both columns amd until the next full census (which still won't include the favalas to any level of accuracy) the picture won't be fully clear. Edit - there was a census in 2022 but it was a much reduced one due to covid and budget being cut by 80% - results were published in June 23 but analysis is ongoing into death rates

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Britons and overseas visitors may soon find themselves paying a “hotel tax” on every overnight stay, under Treasury proposals designed to shore up the public purse as borrowing costs continue to climb.
The potential levy, part of “modelling exercises” carried out by officials, mirrors the tourist taxes in countries such as France.

I don’t have an issue with this, happens across Europe.

 

[JetsetJimbo]

I honestly can't overstate how insane this is. Productivity in the UK roughly doubled in the 1980-2020 period, i.e. it took forty (40) years. And Starmer thinks AI is going to lead to 40 years' worth of growth in less than five?

He's swallowed the bullshit being peddled by the most fantastical, least scrupulous techbros. This is like watching an elderly relative fall for a romance scam, only instead of their savings at risk, it's the entire country.

 

[dwayne]

I honestly can't overstate how insane this is. Productivity in the UK roughly doubled in the 1980-2020 period, i.e. it took forty (40) years. And Starmer thinks AI is going to lead to 40 years' worth of growth in less than five?

He's swallowed the bullshit being peddled by the most fantastical, least scrupulous techbros. This is like watching an elderly relative fall for a romance scam, only instead of their savings at risk, it's the entire country.

View attachment 195125

Oh dear. That really is embarrassing.

 

[A1X]

Thoughts on this poll everyone? I'm particularly keen to hear from those who insist this government is actually popular and it's just the daily mail who say otherwise.

Given the massive, fawning coverage of Reform across the UK media landscape, plus the fact that seemingly the Government can’t so much as move a paper clip without someone claiming they’re crashing the economy or killing someone off, it’s astonishing the Reform party aren’t ahead. Hope for the future that the public see through them.

 

[armchairclubber]

Looking forward to the greens getting more seats if their share continues to increase at that rate

Obviously a long way to go however, It would be good to think the electorate might consider other options rather than just the 'you have to vote Labour to keep out Reform' which we've heard plenty of on here. Hopefully that thinking can change in 4 years.

Ironically, it's this Labour vote (according to polls 25% already have regret, and Labour only persuaded 20% of the electorate to vote for them in July) who may contribute most in swinging to Reform.

Maybe Starmer and Farage have more similar appeal than some might like to imagine.

 

[Boroseagull]

I think Labour have had an awful start from a public relations perspective, yet I still find Starmer and Reeves highly preferable to what went before.

With regards to the politicisation of what’s happened in Oldham (and Rochdale) - there’s an excellent article here:

Elon Musk thinks there is a hidden grooming scandal in Oldham. Why can’t the police find it?

This week’s controversy can be traced back to a vicious online campaign that has terrified politicians – but struggled to substantiate its claims

manchestermill.co.uk

The individual who claims to have a dossier proving that there is a massive paedophile ring in Oldham has had six years to provide it to the police, and yet has refused to do so. His accusations started after a dispute with the local council.

Musk also seems shy of mentioning (or more likely isn’t aware) that there’s an ongoing police inquiry investigating in Oldham called Operation Sherwood. The article linked to suggests that (at time of writing) there simply hasn’t been any evidence of organized wrongdoing in the way that was found in Rochdale.

If Raja Miah has evidence of wrongdoing and is withholding it from the authorities, then he is effectively enabling it to continue, the fact that he hasn’t provided this dossier suggests to me that all this hate and misinformation might be down to just one man with a grudge against the council. Time for Miah to either provide the evidence, or get done for wasting police time.

I'd suggest you read the full report and time line that was published in The Times a couple of days ago. Thanks to 2 men, both independent councilors at Oldham the stance of the Labour controlled council was changed from denial of the scandal to them asking for an independent review. Makes the most interesting reading as it's clear all decent members of society no matter their colour or beliefs want the issue sorted. You can read it here and use a paywall breaker if needed.

The Oldham landlord who led the calls for grooming gangs inquiry

For five years, a publican had been demanding an inquiry into child sex exploitation amid claims of a council cover-up. Then Elon Musk took up his campaign

www.thetimes.com

 

[Since1982]

It doesn't really matter four years from an election. I'm astonished folk haven't read up on the 'policies' of Reform.

Agree. Labour have been in power for 6 months out of a probable 5 year term. It's like deciding the outcome of a football match after 9 mins.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Looking forward to the greens getting more seats if their share continues to increase at that rate

Greens won seats in Lewes District council at the last elections, over fears of the Eton new town development.
People who voted for them are already being disillusioned.

 

[nevergoagain]

Heaven only knows. I’m on record here before the election saying I thought Rachel Reeves would be a good chancellor because of her background in economics and that Keir Starmer would be a good Prime Minister, so I’m baffled at how badly it’s gone and how quickly. I think if there is a challenge for the leadership then Streeting will be a front runner but Yvette Cooper annd Ed Milliband are the ones with the most experience but maybe young and energetic is what’s called for.

For all the shouting on here about the Tories and the last 14 years etc etc if this government doesn’t change direction it’s inevitable the leaders will be replaced

Heaven help us all if Streeting ever got the job, a nasty little sod. I'd rather the lib dems got in.

 

[chickens]

I'd suggest you read the full report and time line that was published in The Times a couple of days ago. Thanks to 2 men, both independent councilors at Oldham the stance of the Labour controlled council was changed from denial of the scandal to them asking for an independent review. Makes the most interesting reading as it's clear all decent members of society no matter their colour or beliefs want the issue sorted. You can read it here and use a paywall breaker if needed.

The Oldham landlord who led the calls for grooming gangs inquiry

For five years, a publican had been demanding an inquiry into child sex exploitation amid claims of a council cover-up. Then Elon Musk took up his campaign

www.thetimes.com

Absolutely, the local Labour Party themselves agree that they held out against another inquiry for too long, As you say, it was the price of support from independent councillors.

However, the Labour government have (correctly in my view) prioritised enacting the measures in the Jay report, over reinvestigating where there’s already been one investigation, and where a second investigation is still ongoing.

It may be that there will be a further national investigation in time, but let’s implement the measures that have been identified so far first. That will protect children.

Oldham is the most investigated area nationally for organized child sexual exploitation with investigations having been running almost continuously since 2019. The same police force that found so many cases in Rochdale, has simply not been able to find evidence of widespread cases in Oldham.

If this guy Raja Miah, who is the driving force behind all of this, has a dossier of evidence as he’s claimed continuously since 2019, it needs to go to the police. His refusal to do so (if his evidence exists, which I’m frankly doubtful about) would be enabling abuse, which is sickening. Elon Musk needs to be putting the pressure on Miah, nobody else.

 

[Weststander]

Out of interest, what were the figures for Sweden and Brazil? I notice that neither is on the list even though they both (in their very different ways) followed their own path.

Tracking covid-19 excess deaths across countries

In many parts of the world, official death tolls undercount the total number of fatalities

www.economist.com

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Absolutely, the local Labour Party themselves agree that they held out against another inquiry for too long, As you say, it was the price of support from independent councillors.

However, the Labour government have (correctly in my view) prioritised enacting the measures in the Jay report, over reinvestigating where there’s already been one investigation, and where a second investigation is still ongoing.

It may be that there will be a further national investigation in time, but let’s implement the measures that have been identified so far first. That will protect children.

Oldham is the most investigated area nationally for organized child sexual exploitation with investigations having been running almost continuously since 2019. The same police force that found so many cases in Rochdale, has simply not been able to find evidence of widespread cases in Oldham.

If this guy Raja Miah, who is the driving force behind all of this, has a dossier of evidence as he’s claimed continuously since 2019, it needs to go to the police. His refusal to do so (if his evidence exists, which I’m frankly doubtful about) would be enabling abuse, which is sickening. Elon Musk needs to be putting the pressure on Miah, nobody else.

Rotherham MP Sarah Champion backs national grooming inquiry

The Labour MP says "nothing less than a full inquiry... will restore faith in our safeguarding systems".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Weststander]

We place countries on pedestals?

Yes, a few here did, mistaking holidays in rural France staying with friends or at a gîte as the country is an idyll.

 

[Chicken Run]

People who voted for them are already being disillusioned.

Sounds like Brighton & Hove, tell the plebs what they want to hear, get elected and f*** them

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Sounds like Brighton & Hove

So it is proving. Lewes wanted to keep their bus station citing public transport as a good thing, but the Greens disagreed.

 

[Weststander]

My response was addressing did the uk govt have a handbook on how to deal with covid.

In terms of your question - it's interesting to note that while Italy was 4th overall in terms of deaths at the end of 2020 it was only the 37th overall in terms of cases. That meant if you caught the illness you were more likely to die.

This was largely caused by 3 reasons.

1) Italy along with Spain, due to economic policy over the previous 20 years had grown significant new trade routes with china and were amongst the 1st non Asian countries to be hit. The Pandemic officially arrived in those countries the 1st week of Feb (suspected much earlier) and so they were learning ahead of uk, us etc

2) Italy Spain and france have an older population with a life expectancy of over 87 so the population catching the illness were at higher risk

3) despite the higher life expectancy, a significant proportion of these older people had at least 2 underlying health conditions (c70% of over 65s in italy)

There is another reason which is that the way data is counted in each country differs. Your chart shows covid deaths and excess deaths both of which are counted in very different ways as testing and definitions changed.

Excess deaths over ’expectations’ was the only accepted measure, I‘m going by James O’Brien’s mate at the Economist, but also John Hopkins Uni.

They only had one proviso. Countries such as Russia and China lie.

France, Spain and Belgium part emptied care/nursing homes in spring 2020, unknowingly sending Covid into the community. Sound familiar? The same error made in the UK’s 4 nations.

 

[armchairclubber]

Greens won seats in Lewes District council at the last elections, over fears of the Eton new town development.
People who voted for them are already being disillusioned.

Thanks for highlighting the Eton development, first I've heard of their proposals near East Chiltington.
That constituency actually voted for LDs James MacCleary at the last election, so would have limited relevance in any further General Election swing.

If you have any further links of how development decisions are being made I'd be interested, it appears to me all the Party's are against it and rejected?

 

[chickens]

Rotherham MP Sarah Champion backs national grooming inquiry

The Labour MP says "nothing less than a full inquiry... will restore faith in our safeguarding systems".

www.bbc.co.uk

But that’s due to the optics, not the reality. Operation Sherwood is still ongoing. Oldham council are likely to run their own inquiry, but until the recommendations of the Jay report are enacted, we haven’t learnt a single lesson from the horrific abuse that has already been uncovered.

We’ve protected nobody until the Jay report recommendations have been implemented in law. If there is still the desire for a public inquiry once that’s done, fine. What I don’t want to see is the Jay report recommendations delayed.

For me, the government have the priorities right, Jay report first, then if a local inquiry believes that a national inquiry is needed, by all means a national inquiry.

However, Operation Sherwood is still ongoing. It risks undermining all the work put in over three years by officers who are likely to have had to build relationships with deeply traumatised and vulnerable people, who will feel that they are back at the beginning of a years long process, and may well simply refuse to cooperate. There’s humans in this, it’s not just about political posturing.