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Are Forest taking the Pis#???
- Thread starter Neecha
- Start date
Blue Valkyrie
Not seen such Bravery!
Sorry, I mean I don't like FFP as it is at the moment. The penalties are too light, and it seems teams arn't bothered by them.
Best scrap it until we have a scheme that everyone adheres to or face a draconian penalty.
Hove Seagull
Well-known member
Points deduction?
dougdeep
New member
Prettyboyshaw
Well-known member
Well not exactly going to set the Premiership alight that lot and if they do go up so the wages will be horrific if they have to add PL quality to stay up. Still wish we would take a bit more of a punt then we are.
Seagull over Canaryland
Well-known member
It does feel as if Forest are taking p**s, just by having all those strikers and having a legitimate, if rather blatant sponsorship deal. They are sticking two fingers up to FFP in a 'we're going for the premiership in a sh*t or bust way and don't care what anyone else thinks'. Just goes to show how perverse the incentives are to get into the Prem.
It doesn't look like good management to have more assets than you can use and seems a recipe for friction in the dressing room.
If Forest are able to circumvent FFP by having a disproportionate sponsorship deal then good luck to them, if that's how they want to succeed (at all costs) then they will be morally bankrupt. Their transfer and wage bill must be way in excess of their genuine operating income.
I know many on here would love us to splash the cash and it is frustrating that ultimately we cannot compete with those who flaunt FFP and load up their squads. I'm sure that Tony Bloom and Paul Barber are more than capable of finding a similar loophole around FFP but that also means accepting a financial model that doesn't meet their vision of how to conduct a successful business. Sponsors come and go, sometimes at short notice - and to put your viability effectively into external hands is not how plan for stability.
So it is right that we move towards a sustainable existence, mainly based on our own genuine income. Even under FFP we are 'allowed' to lose up to £8m this year and I suspect our losses will still be at least that. Clearly that is not sustainable. I want us to succeed on the pitch but not at any cost and certainly not put the medium / long term future of the club at risk. It was only a few years ago that we were staring into the abyss and we should never forget that, even if it means being patient. We have come along way in a short space of time and shouldn't overlook the fantastic position we are in - 7th in the Championship, despite a make shift squad, which is a huge credit to the management and players, a sensible transfer strategy that still allows us to attract some Prem level players, a fabulous stadium and a state of the art training complex. Life could be a hell of a lot worse - could be a Pompey fan for example (God forbid).
It doesn't look like good management to have more assets than you can use and seems a recipe for friction in the dressing room.
If Forest are able to circumvent FFP by having a disproportionate sponsorship deal then good luck to them, if that's how they want to succeed (at all costs) then they will be morally bankrupt. Their transfer and wage bill must be way in excess of their genuine operating income.
I know many on here would love us to splash the cash and it is frustrating that ultimately we cannot compete with those who flaunt FFP and load up their squads. I'm sure that Tony Bloom and Paul Barber are more than capable of finding a similar loophole around FFP but that also means accepting a financial model that doesn't meet their vision of how to conduct a successful business. Sponsors come and go, sometimes at short notice - and to put your viability effectively into external hands is not how plan for stability.
So it is right that we move towards a sustainable existence, mainly based on our own genuine income. Even under FFP we are 'allowed' to lose up to £8m this year and I suspect our losses will still be at least that. Clearly that is not sustainable. I want us to succeed on the pitch but not at any cost and certainly not put the medium / long term future of the club at risk. It was only a few years ago that we were staring into the abyss and we should never forget that, even if it means being patient. We have come along way in a short space of time and shouldn't overlook the fantastic position we are in - 7th in the Championship, despite a make shift squad, which is a huge credit to the management and players, a sensible transfer strategy that still allows us to attract some Prem level players, a fabulous stadium and a state of the art training complex. Life could be a hell of a lot worse - could be a Pompey fan for example (God forbid).
Derby, like us, are trying to do it the right way. They are using high quality Premiership loanees to supplement their already pretty good base of young talented players. It remains to be seen whether they will succeed, my guess is that the sheer wealth of resources that Leicester, QPR and Forest have + these three teams strength and physicality will see them through.
KZNSeagull
Well-known member
I liked it when the money from fines was being redistributed amongst those teams that complied, as it rewarded those that stayed within the rules. But now that may not happen, they need to think of something else to reward the better run clubs somehow.
FFP is a start, but it needs to evolve into something that makes the punishment for non-compliance far harsher. Personally, I would invoke fines whether a team is promoted or not, then at least those staying within the rules are rewarded in a round about way.
Grombleton
Surrounded by <div>s
- Dec 31, 2011
- 7,356
How do we know what the penalties are, when none have been enforced yet?
Icy Gull
Back on the rollercoaster
- Jul 5, 2003
- 72,015
Maybe not but they are in an excellent position going into the 2nd half of the season and they are not disadvantaged by having so many strikers, just the opposite imo. I'm not suggesting we should follow the same route or that it is the best way to go but it's hardly going to have a negative impact unless they don't get promoted. I would love it if Oscar had that many strikers to choose from and as I said I am a bit jealous of the number of quality players they have.
Whilst I agree with the main thrust of your argument, it should be pointed out that all 9 of those players are probably good enough to play in the Championship for one team or another. So by buying them all up, they are at least keeping them out of the hands of the competition. We need a striker, Leeds need a striker, Ipswich need a striker. Forest have them all, and no need to sell to any of those play-off rivals.
We know what the penalties are we just don't know what will happen to the fines that are imposed.
With regard to Forest, I suspect there is a lot that is yet to come out, particularly with regard to the management of the club and the suggesting that it is being done by Billy Davies' cousin who is a solicitor that has been struck off! This was being investigated by the league but am not sure if they have concluded that yet. The concern will be that, like with QPR a few years ago, they don't take any action until the end of the season when it is too late.
Hove Seagull
Well-known member
Justice could be served, if, on the last day of the season, they need points but don't get them, against a club sticking to the FFP rules.
All the talk of sustainable. Is all the Forest activity increasing their debt? Just interested if anyone knows, I thought it was a the wealthy owner putting in their on money via a spurious sponsorship deal and likely other means. That being the case and assuming he/they aren't about to go bust then their approach seems reasonably sustainable .... Abramovich has been doing it for years
They may well be flouting FFP but I can't see any penalty being easy to enforce. I know it as voted in by the majority but maybe in hindsight some/many are wishing they didn't
They may well be flouting FFP but I can't see any penalty being easy to enforce. I know it as voted in by the majority but maybe in hindsight some/many are wishing they didn't
Seagull over Canaryland
Well-known member
Maybe FFP will have teeth but I suspect they will be ineffective. If Forest have already found a legitimate financial loophole then FFP is already dead in the water, it defeats the purpose, eventually most like minded Clubs will just follow suit. Just pour your sponsorship income into the loophole.
The sanctions should be sufficiently severe to be an effective deterrent but I suspect it will be a fudge. More importantly the offenders will still be promoted to the Prem so the whole thing will be a joke. The bigger the fines then more likely the whole thing will become a legal binfest and dissolve into litigation that could drag on until test cases and inevitable appeals have been heard, which could take ages. How does the Prem and Football League plan its fixtures against that backdrop?
If the Football authorities have real balls they will tackle the issue head on, with the backing of Government and overhaul FFP, parachute payments, impose wage caps in each league, limit agent's fees and encourage Clubs to become structured in a more sustainable model. It won't be easy, there are too many conflicts of interest. No doubt all sorts of human rights and equalities issues will be used to protect existing benefits. It needs real will power and a concerted approach right across footie to make it work. But until one or two high profile Clubs go out of business I cannot see it happening. Look at how Pompey have been repeatedly indulged by the authorities.
Ecosse Exile
New member
Does anyone know what is the largest fine ever imposed by the football league?
Seems to me, that any club that is spending their way to the premier league whilst showing a blatant disregard for ffp is hardly going to be bothered by a fine of 100k or so.
As for the transfer embargo, well isnt it a case of locking the stable door after the horse has bolted? The likes of Forest already have a lot of very capable players on the books!
The only punishment these clubs will take notice of is a severe points deduction, which i dont believe is even a consideration.
The whole thing, imo, is a farce.
Seems to me, that any club that is spending their way to the premier league whilst showing a blatant disregard for ffp is hardly going to be bothered by a fine of 100k or so.
As for the transfer embargo, well isnt it a case of locking the stable door after the horse has bolted? The likes of Forest already have a lot of very capable players on the books!
The only punishment these clubs will take notice of is a severe points deduction, which i dont believe is even a consideration.
The whole thing, imo, is a farce.
nwgull
Well-known member
Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I think it's worth giving the FL a chance and waiting to see if they will implement the penalties. Points deduction is not an option; the season will have been done and dusted 7-8 months before accounts are presented.
I also think that most teams in the league are actually trying to conform to the FFP limits. QPR and Forrest are the only ones that appear to be openly ignoring them.
I also think that most teams in the league are actually trying to conform to the FFP limits. QPR and Forrest are the only ones that appear to be openly ignoring them.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
It would appear that Bournemouth offer better contracts than us?
keaton
Big heart, hot blood and balls. Big balls
- Nov 18, 2004
- 9,972
They have been playing Greg Halford up front due to injury
nwgull
Well-known member
For one player - a player that we were prepared to pay 1.1m for! Besides, it could be that Bournemouth just matched our offer, and Grabban preferred the option of being the number 1 striker.