Are cyclists a different breed to the rest of us?

[attila]

Amazing that people think this is an 'either-or'. I drive about 12,000 miles a year and cycle 50 miles or so a week. So, for once in my life I can see both sides of the argument

 

[sten_super]

On a related point, motorists have to wear seat belts, motorcyclists crash helmets. Can anyone please explain why cyclists don't have to wear reflective clothing at all times, and daytime running lights?

There's a number of ways of looking at this.

1 - Cars and motorcycles have motors; they go fast and they can (and frequently do) incur serious damage to themselves and others. Bikes do not have motors, they do not go as fast and they can (and very seldom do) relatively little damage to themselves or others. The risk factors associated with cycling are far far far smaller. 1,700 people were killed in 2013 due to road accidents, while on average about 1 person every 3 years is killed after being hit by someone on a bike.

2 - You are comparing apples and pears. To paraphrase; Cars and motorcycles have devices to give safety to users, so why don't cyclists have to make themselves visible? If you made cyclists wear high-vis, why not motorcyclists, and why not insist that cars are all painted high-vis colours?

 

[SAC]

I have no real problem with cyclists except for the few morons who flaunt all the rules and are reckless with other people's lives but those getting about in their full lycra kit just look like idiots. Unfortunately I live in the area that the Olympic cycling route took and since that fateful summer in 2012 the number of them on the road, especially on weekend mornings has expanded a hundred fold. They are literally everywhere. They are not just irritating on the road but every café on my high street is absolutely overrun with them all day on Sundays. Poncing about in their skin tight gear, their shoe clips clip clopping around. Most of them are well out of shape, lycra encased beer bellies hanging over their thighs as they sup lattes and the women's cellulite riddled, corned-beef legs squeezing past me at face level as they trot about the café.
Surely some of them must catch a glimpse of their reflections in the window and have a moment of clarity? "What the **** do I look like"?

What should cyclists wear if not cycling clothing? Do you have a problem with runners wearing running kit and Sunday footballers wearing full football kit? Swimmers wearing swimming kit? Do you go to the Amex and wonder why so many people are wearing football shirts, often XXL, when they are not playing football (including some on the pitch)?

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

I am Cyclist, Driver, and Pedestrian. Three different breeds.

 

[chimneys]

Yes, but if you're going to think like that then we may as well wipe out the human race, as some pedestrians are scum, some football fans are scum, some artists are scum, some accountants are scum, some botanists are scum, some women are scum, etc. etc.

A textbook overreaction to a pretty mild mannered observation by Fat Old Seagull. He even included your point!

Well done!

 

[fat old seagull]

Yes, but if you're going to think like that then we may as well wipe out the human race, as some pedestrians are scum, some football fans are scum, some artists are scum, some accountants are scum, some botanists are scum, some women are scum, etc. etc.

Well sorry for putting my point of view !

 

[Notters]

A textbook overreaction to a pretty mild mannered observation by Fat Old Seagull. He even included your point!

Well done!

How exactly was it an overeaction when I've made exactly the same point as him?

 

[Lincoln Imp]

There's a number of ways of looking at this.

1 - Cars and motorcycles have motors; they go fast and they can (and frequently do) incur serious damage to themselves and others. Bikes do not have motors, they do not go as fast and they can (and very seldom do) relatively little damage to themselves or others. The risk factors associated with cycling are far far far smaller. 1,700 people were killed in 2013 due to road accidents, while on average about 1 person every 3 years is killed after being hit by someone on a bike.

2 - You are comparing apples and pears. To paraphrase; Cars and motorcycles have devices to give safety to users, so why don't cyclists have to make themselves visible? If you made cyclists wear high-vis, why not motorcyclists, and why not insist that cars are all painted high-vis colours?

I wasn't thinking of the damage cyclists do to others, I was thinking of the danger they create for themselves. If you think that a motorcycle with obligatory daytime running lights is no more obvious than a silent cycle with a black lycra'd pilot swishing lightless beneath shady trees then fine, I won't argue. Life's too short to take on a righteous bicyclist.

 

[Meade's Ball]

Like any old fellow I preferred it in the old days, around 10 years ago and a little more, when in London it felt like there were only me and perhaps a thousand other cyclists going about our business on a daily basis. Ok I would be largely ignored by motorists who would have no idea of my existence and my lifespan would therefore be likely shortened, my body crushed beneath their wheels, but I am finding a bad 40% of the current lot to be uncaring rotters. That leaves 60% of niceguys/nicegals, but that's not a big enough percentage for me. Much like carefree drivers, it is the threat of punishment that puts most of them off driving dangerously. At present, us two-wheelers can get away with blue murder, almost, so a decent system which threatens badness in a high majority I'd generally approve of.

Still, I remain a regular cyclist and enjoy a weekend ride when the weekday race and battle is over. Maybe when I get into the buying a house market i'll get one maybe an hour's walk from home, walking back and forth from there each day at a reasonable pace. Then just cycle at the weekends. At the minute, I am 95 minutes from home, which is a little bit too much. Wait, I've just bored myself completely. The end.

 

[fat old seagull]

How exactly was it an overeaction when I've made exactly the same point as him?

Sorry Notters you clearly didn't make the same point as me. You immediately went on the uneccessary defence and implied my post as irrelevant. Comparing it with a whole bunch of ridiculous comparisons. I haven't a clue whether your a cyclist or not but presume you are and went rushing inanely to its defence when it clearly wasn't needed. Never mind I've got cricket to watch.

 

[Dr. Notthenineo'clocknews]

I'm also a cyclist, pedestrian and car owner.

Just on a side issue, I'm presently in liaison with Sussex OB regarding some footage I have of a 4 wheel drive owner that constantly mounts the pavement drives on the grass verge and the wrong side of the road, at speed out side Telscombe Cliffs School, as was witnessed by many yesterday narrowly missing my six year old son.

Carry on

 

[Nibble]

What should cyclists wear if not cycling clothing? Do you have a problem with runners wearing running kit and Sunday footballers wearing full football kit? Swimmers wearing swimming kit? Do you go to the Amex and wonder why so many people are wearing football shirts, often XXL, when they are not playing football (including some on the pitch)?

I didn't say they shouldn't wear it, I just said they look like idiots.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Do they actually think when they put on their skintight clobber that the rules of cycle paths don't apply to them?
Do they actually think they look like old cheating Lance?
Would they really rather go under the wheels of a bus then move two foot across to a path?
Are they actually a different breed to the rest of us..?

When I get on my Bicycle I become very defensive. It can't be helped because there are some real bad drivers out there who just don't look or would rather shove you off the road.

I also drive so I am aware of cyclists. Best bet is to give cyclists as much space possible.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I'm also a cyclist, pedestrian and car owner.

Just on a side issue, I'm presently in liaison with Sussex OB regarding some footage I have of a 4 wheel drive owner that constantly mounts the pavement drives on the grass verge and the wrong side of the road, at speed out side Telscombe Cliffs School, as was witnessed by many yesterday narrowly missing my six year old son.

Carry on

Some of the parking in Peacehaven and Telscombe is becoming a joke lately. Like you I walk, cycle and drive. I wish the police where around more often or trafffic wardens to book these people.
Cars parked completely on the pavement outside Subway and Sainsburys, outside the Fish and Chip shops blocking access to pedestrians. I absolutely hate this. Lazy people who don't care about anyone else, and can't be bothered to use their legs.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

No roadie should ever ride on the pavement, it's just too dangerous.

As much as I appreciate inconsiderate road use is annoying to drivers, it's still preferable to shared cycle lanes and the pavement.
I can't understand why anyone would put themselves in the position of doing the harm.
The thought of a dog or god forbid small child straying into the cycle lane at the exact moment I'm storming past at 20-25 mph is too frightening for words.
If anyone is going to get killed to death I'd much rather I was the kill-ie than the killer.

That said I cycle along the promo with the jnr stats at a very sedate speed, while reminding the kids that here the pedestrian is king.

Slow down! You'll have an accident at those speeds!

 

[perseus]

Other cyclists Aaargh !!!

What are these rules on cyclepaths? Apart from not allowed to be overtaken by joggers, and deaf people are only pretending not to hear the bell.

And you can't see the shadows of runners (speeding) around blind corners. And all pedestrians should wear lights at night and crash helmets.

One dog, beware, two dogs, alarm!

 

[Wrong-Direction]

I have been stuck behind a car every single time I've cycle down Ditchling Beacon and not once have they let me pass

Er maybe because you'd start a huge traffic jam at the bottom!?

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I cycled in France a few years back and everyone gave me proper clearance, priority. I even got a Bravo from one of the locals for making it up the hill. In this country people just want to knock your block off. Could it be that this countries roads are just too small and we have too many cars.

 

[sten_super]

I wasn't thinking of the damage cyclists do to others, I was thinking of the danger they create for themselves. If you think that a motorcycle with obligatory daytime running lights is no more obvious than a silent cycle with a black lycra'd pilot swishing lightless beneath shady trees then fine, I won't argue. Life's too short to take on a righteous bicyclist.

Wasn't trying to come across as 'righteous', so apologies for that - I just think that the expectations should be the same across all types of vehicle.

It sounds like you and I would disagree on who's creating danger on our roads though, for sure. My view is that assumed liability would be a very positive development on our roads - effectively that the more weighty road users have a clear duty of care towards other road users (as measured in descending weight order).

 

[perseus]

Wasn't trying to come across as 'righteous', so apologies for that - I just think that the expectations should be the same across all types of vehicle.

It sounds like you and I would disagree on who's creating danger on our roads though, for sure. My view is that assumed liability would be a very positive development on our roads - effectively that the more weighty road users have a clear duty of care towards other road users (as measured in descending weight order).

Does this mean it would be a cyclist's fault if they run over a pedestrian? Even a fat one! (descending weight order)