[Misc] Anyone got a fully electric car ?

[nwgull]

You buying outright or leasing?

My company car lease runs out in September, and the company I work for has now changed policy and I'll be given extra cash (of which the Treasury will grab a significant chunk) instead of another car. So I've begun researching what I can get on a lease, and electric is high on my priority list. At the moment, it's looking like the Renault Zoe R135 - quoted range is 245 miles, charge time is good, and you get a fully installed wall charger for home as part of the deal. Not yet got far enough with my research as to whether you get the charger on lease deals or if it requires buying to own.

And yeah, I know the Zoe has a reputation - but the latest models (if you go for the R135 motor and top spec options) look like really good value for money.

Could you persuade you company to change their policy? The Benefit In Kind (BIK) rate for fully electric cars is 0% this current tax year, 1% in 21/22 and still only 2% the year after. There are huge tax savings to be made!

 

[marcos3263]

I am hoping my current car is my last fossil fuel, hence I drive a Jaguar XF 2l diesel as a last triumphant hurrah.

I would love an iPace - stunning stunning car but would need to continue driving my current car for 35 years in the hope a second hand one becomes affordable! I will be looking for a new car in about 5 years. in that time I hope there are lots of good examples out there and that its more the norm.

I have a driveway for charging and only really do 40-50 miles a day so would be a perfect candidate.

Theres a program on telly where they convert classics to electric, first one was a Carman Ghia, not cheap but a way to keep classics on the road.

 

[Official Old Man]

I've noticed that there are lots of posh 4x4's that now have contactless charging. At least that's the only reason that these monsters take up the charging bays at car parks without plugging in to the wall!

 

[Greg Bobkin]

I intend to purchase, retirement is on the horizon, which is getting a lot closer and don't want ongoing monthly payments. Zoe spec looks good, would need to see one in the flesh (metal) but it looks small, Clio ish size and I really want mid (focus) size at least.

I would seriously suggest not ruling out leasing. The car world is moving to a usership world, as opposed to ownership and deals are calculated in such a way that makes it the same sort of price (sometimes cheaper) than buying outright. Surely you could just take the money that you would've spent up front and use some of that for the monthly payments over the course of the contract? At the end of the three (on average) years, swap it over for a newer model, new battery, better range, etc.

On the subject of range anxiety, it's all in the mind. From what I've read, you don't do very long journeys, so there shouldn't be a problem. If you do find yourself faced with a journey that might put the range in jeopardy, just check out something like Zap-Map, which will show that there are WAY more charging points than you'd think – and more and more rapid chargers too.

And charging is only going to get easier over time -*bigger networks, more faster chargers, even wireless charging points and mobile charging companies that will come out to you with a generator and charge (and sometimes clean) your vehicle.

Good luck!

 

[m@goo]

I'd seriously consider going full EV if I had somewhere to charge it. I live in a flat...

However I'm thinking towards a hybrid or even plug-in hybrid in future. Even the plug-in hybrid's don't necessarily need to be mains charged as the batteries can be charged from the motor. Drive on full EV till the batteries die then drive on the engine till the batteries are recharged and so on.

The new Ford Puma plug-in hybrid has a manufacturers MPG stated at 200mpg!!

 

[GOM]

I would seriously suggest not ruling out leasing. The car world is moving to a usership world, as opposed to ownership and deals are calculated in such a way that makes it the same sort of price (sometimes cheaper) than buying outright. Surely you could just take the money that you would've spent up front and use some of that for the monthly payments over the course of the contract? At the end of the three (on average) years, swap it over for a newer model, new battery, better range, etc.

On the subject of range anxiety, it's all in the mind. From what I've read, you don't do very long journeys, so there shouldn't be a problem. If you do find yourself faced with a journey that might put the range in jeopardy, just check out something like Zap-Map, which will show that there are WAY more charging points than you'd think – and more and more rapid chargers too.

And charging is only going to get easier over time -*bigger networks, more faster chargers, even wireless charging points and mobile charging companies that will come out to you with a generator and charge (and sometimes clean) your vehicle.

Good luck!

Leasing (renting) not desirable. At the end of 3/4 years I do not want to be left with an empty wallet and an empty driveway. PCP a possibility as a way to spread the payments, but with savings interest rates low, the cash discount is greater.

I do make long journeys but not every day or week or even every month at the moment, but as I said before, it's not so much range anxiety as range jealousy.

 

[Driver8]

I have a Tesla Model 3 and it’s fantastic. 340 mile range and quicker than most sports cars. I’ve only had one long trip so far, to London and back (from North Wales) and recharged once for about 30 mins. Ironically one of the reasons I bought it was to save money on my trips to home games.

The tech on it is something else.

 

[Mackenzie]

I have a Tesla Model 3 and it’s fantastic. 340 mile range and quicker than most sports cars. I’ve only had one long trip so far, to London and back (from North Wales) and recharged once for about 30 mins. Ironically one of the reasons I bought it was to save money on my trips to home games.

The tech on it is something else.

Is there a charging point at the Amex, you could recharge whilst the game is on if there is.

 

[Driver8]

Is there a charging point at the Amex, you could recharge whilst the game is on if there is.

I use P&R so not an option unfortunately. I plan to charge at High Wycombe services for about 30 mins there and back.

 

[Audax]

I intend to purchase, retirement is on the horizon, which is getting a lot closer and don't want ongoing monthly payments. Zoe spec looks good, would need to see one in the flesh (metal) but it looks small, Clio ish size and I really want mid (focus) size at least.

It is on the smaller side, but if it's boot space you're after the Zoe is surprisingly large in that department - only 50 litres less than the latest model Focus. In my case, though, I'll be using whatever electric car I get as a commuter and pretty much nothing else. We'll be buying the company car (a 4 year old Prius) to replace my wife's 2013 Focus (it's a ticking timebomb Ecoboost) and that'll be the "holiday" car.

For under £30k, you're gonna struggle to find a full-electric that has both range and family-size *and* represents good long term value.

Given you're buying outright, it's probably worth keeping an eye on second hand market. There's used Tesla Model 3's starting to appear on Autotrader. Still on the pricey side, but depending on how long you're willing to wait that market is going to improve. You could also look at some older Model S's - there's a few 6-7 year old ones with less than 50k miles on Autotrader at just over £30k - the bonus with those being that you get free charging at the Tesla chargepoints (you don't with new ones anymore, but that benefit is a lifetime benefit on the older ones even with change of ownership).

 

[GOM]

I have a Tesla Model 3 and it’s fantastic. 340 mile range and quicker than most sports cars. I.........The tech on it is something else.

.....For under £30k, you're gonna struggle to find a full-electric that has both range and family-size *and* represents good long term value.

Given you're buying outright, it's probably worth keeping an eye on second hand market. There's used Tesla Model 3's starting to appear on Autotrader. Still on the pricey side, but depending on how long you're willing to wait that market is going to improve. You could also look at some older Model S's - there's a few 6-7 year old ones with less than 50k miles on Autotrader at just over £30k - the bonus with those being that you get free charging at the Tesla chargepoints (you don't with new ones anymore, but that benefit is a lifetime benefit on the older ones even with change of ownership).

Tesla the benchmark, but on the model 3, WTF is a tablet doing bolted to the middle of the dashboard to replace the instrumentation. That is just plain weird and ugly regardless of how good it is LOL.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Leasing (renting) not desirable. At the end of 3/4 years I do not want to be left with an empty wallet and an empty driveway. PCP a possibility as a way to spread the payments, but with savings interest rates low, the cash discount is greater.

I do make long journeys but not every day or week or even every month at the moment, but as I said before, it's not so much range anxiety as range jealousy.

But that's what I'm saying. You wouldn't have a empty wallet – it can be as cost effective leasing as buying outright, taking into account the RVs – and you won't have an empty driveway (if the dealer is any good), because they'll get you into a new model with a good deal.

In fact the Bobkin Snrs took delivery of a previous gen Leaf about 18 months ago and about six months ago the dealer called up to offer them an upgrade FOC because the value of their car was at it's optimum value to sell on.

Up to you, of course, but all I'm saying it don't dismiss it out of hand because you think you'll lose money (you probably wont).

 

[Sleaford Seagull]

My 2 real passions in life are football and cars. I always find it interesting when a thread on here is related to cars as it's good to see a more 'normal' perspective on motoring rather than the view of a petrol head.
I still do find the movement to electric cars quite depressing though, yes I understand the overall benefits and appreciate that it's an inevitable change, but the thought of petrol cars being phased out still saddens me. I really can't get excited for cars like a Renault Zoe or a Nissan Leaf. Even things like the Tesla seem soulless.
So my advice is go Petrol/Electric Hybrid, because at least then you get some of the benefits of electric but you can have a much wider choice.
In the meantime I'm going to go buy a 3 litre turbo petrol while you still can

 

[GOM]

But that's what I'm saying. You wouldn't have a empty wallet – it can be as cost effective leasing as buying outright, taking into account the RVs – and you won't have an empty driveway (if the dealer is any good), because they'll get you into a new model with a good deal.

In fact the Bobkin Snrs took delivery of a previous gen Leaf about 18 months ago and about six months ago the dealer called up to offer them an upgrade FOC because the value of their car was at it's optimum value to sell on.

Up to you, of course, but all I'm saying it don't dismiss it out of hand because you think you'll lose money (you probably wont).

Are we talking about the same thing? Leasing is renting, at the end of the term the car is handed back, no option to purchase the car has always belonged to the lessor, same as renting a house, hence empty driveway and monthly rent having been paid for the term, empty wallet.

 

[Driver8]

Tesla the benchmark, but on the model 3, WTF is a tablet doing bolted to the middle of the dashboard to replace the instrumentation. That is just plain weird and ugly regardless of how good it is LOL.

Love it myself and you soon get used to it. And I can watch Netflix whilst charging!

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Are we talking about the same thing? Leasing is renting, at the end of the term the car is handed back, no option to purchase the car has always belonged to the lessor, same as renting a house, hence empty driveway and monthly rent having been paid for the term, empty wallet.

Effectively yes – hence the usership, rather than ownership trend. Sourced through the dealer, they will want to keep your business at the end of the lease deal, hence not leaving you with an empty driveway because they will come up with a new offer for you. And you wouldn't have an 'empty wallet' because you would still have the money left over from what you would've spent buying the car outright. Unlike renting a house, versus buying one, you wouldn't make any money on the car, so there is no 'profit' to lose out on. It just becomes like another regular payment, like broadband, TV, mobile phone, etc, etc. There are finance deals (PCPs) where you can buy the car if you want, but you can then also get a new car too (apologies if any of that is teaching you to suck eggs!).

 

[schmunk]

Are we talking about the same thing? Leasing is renting, at the end of the term the car is handed back, no option to purchase the car has always belonged to the lessor, same as renting a house, hence empty driveway and monthly rent having been paid for the term, empty wallet.

The point being that after two years of leasing a car you won't have suffered two years of depreciation on your formerly brand-new car - it really can work out somewhat cheaper than purchasing.

My last car was leased at about £420/month, including VED. It would have been about £38,000 from a dealer or perhaps £33,000 from a broker.

We handed it back after 2 years. Shortly thereafter it was for sale at a dealership in Leeds for £22,000 - the depreciation for the dealer (not including the profit they'd want from me on a trade-in or sale) was more than I paid in lease premiums.

For our current car, we've sidestepped the issue by buying a 3 year old car which has already done the bulk of its depreciating, and plan to keep it for several years.

 

[GOM]

The point being that after two years of leasing a car you won't have suffered two years of depreciation on your formerly brand-new car - it really can work out somewhat cheaper than purchasing.

Well of course I wont suffer the depreciation, same as I don't suffer it on my neighbours car that I don't own either.

Really, Is renting your house cheaper than buying it ? I fail to see how forking out month after month for ever and end up owning nothing can be better/cheaper than owning something. The tax angle is totally irrelevant, I'm not a business, cannot put it as expenses or reclaim VAT.

At least with a PCP for example I make the payments and then the car is mine and nothing to pay any more, unlike leasing where you pay for life for no asset whatsoever and someone else to make a profit.

I guess it's just down to whether you want/need to change or upgrade your car regularly, for which you'll pay whether you rent or buy. I'm happy to keep mine for many years, I like having no car payments to make.

 

[m@goo]

My 2 real passions in life are football and cars. I always find it interesting when a thread on here is related to cars as it's good to see a more 'normal' perspective on motoring rather than the view of a petrol head.
I still do find the movement to electric cars quite depressing though, yes I understand the overall benefits and appreciate that it's an inevitable change, but the thought of petrol cars being phased out still saddens me. I really can't get excited for cars like a Renault Zoe or a Nissan Leaf. Even things like the Tesla seem soulless.
So my advice is go Petrol/Electric Hybrid, because at least then you get some of the benefits of electric but you can have a much wider choice.
In the meantime I'm going to go buy a 3 litre turbo petrol while you still can

I used to feel the same way but then I thought to myself, what is it I like about cars? It's the power and handling primarily. As long as my car has those I don't care if it's electric. I've never driven an EV but as we know Tesla certainly has power, more than many super cars. Even cheaper EV's have surprising acceleration purely because there's no transmission or turbo lag.

I'm not a fan of Tesla styling either but other brands are making nice looking (normal looking) EV's.

Although having said that I do think I'd miss the exhaust note, fake pops and rumbles of my Cooper.

 

[GOM]

Effectively yes – hence the usership, rather than ownership trend. Sourced through the dealer, they will want to keep your business at the end of the lease deal, hence not leaving you with an empty driveway because they will come up with a new offer for you. And you wouldn't have an 'empty wallet' because you would still have the money left over from what you would've spent buying the car outright. Unlike renting a house, versus buying one, you wouldn't make any money on the car, so there is no 'profit' to lose out on. It just becomes like another regular payment, like broadband, TV, mobile phone, etc, etc. There are finance deals (PCPs) where you can buy the car if you want, but you can then also get a new car too (apologies if any of that is teaching you to suck eggs!).

But will I want to keep paying forever at the end of the lease deal, no I won't. Ultimately taken to it's conclusion leasing provides a regular new car in return for forever payments. Purchasing means less new cars but no payments if you keep the cars beyond payment term.