Anyone ever cross a picket line?

[Lady Bracknell]

Cross a picket line? Never have, never will.

However, I'm afraid I must take issue with your comments, Yorkie

Equal opportunities and women's lib? No thanks.

Because without the various (and very hard won) equalities legislation that currently exists, you'd almost certainly be working alongside male colleagues who were being paid significantly more money for doing the same job as you. And what's so liberating about that?

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

You really are a very angry person, aren't you? It'll do your blood pressure no good. You also take everything so, so personally but think you are always right. I imagine you to be just like the Harry Enfield character in the pub - mr angry.

If you read what I had writen, it was about value for money not how hard people work. Local government swallows a very significant proportion of education funding before it even reaches the schools. It also wastes huge ammounts on employing people in non-jobs. Why you need me to explain that to you I don't know. Try telephoning you district councillor and asking her/him.

I would actually like to see teaching assistants, for example, paid more - especially now that they are being required to gain NVQs, etc. They are often appointed to provide support for very difficult children in mainstream schools and work irregular hours. However, I don't see why they should be treated any differently to the rest of the work force in terms of how their pensions are funded.

The private sector tends to pay it employees a higher salary than those in similar jobs in the public sector, people in the private sector tend to get other perks such as medical cover and 'pensions'. To be able to attract people to work in lower paid jobs in the public sector the concept of retiring at 60 was introduced. Things have changed and the gap between public a private sector has closed and so those who wouldn't 'sully' themselves by working in the public sector are now casting envious eyes at the 'perks' of the public sector pensions. It should also be noted that this also effects senior civil servants …….

The basic argument of the unions is that you can’t take what is an inherent part of someone’s remuneration and suddenly change it because the employers suddenly can’t afford it. The counter argument is that the scheme will implode if the deficit can’t be addressed, and this is one method of partially addressing the issue.

Personally, I believe the age of retirement will have to increase to 65 just to ‘save’ the scheme, however that’s easy for me to say as I wont be emptying bins in the rain when I’m 65.

Dez my well have a low flashpoint and be an angry man, but your simplistic view of the situation is poor to say the least. Value for money is one thing (and I don’t believe that universities in general are that efficient!!), but someone pensions writes are another.

 

[Dave the OAP]

You really are a very angry person, aren't you? It'll do your blood pressure no good. You also take everything so, so personally but think you are always right. I imagine you to be just like the Harry Enfield character in the pub - mr angry.

If you read what I had writen, it was about value for money not how hard people work. Local government swallows a very significant proportion of education funding before it even reaches the schools. It also wastes huge ammounts on employing people in non-jobs. Why you need me to explain that to you I don't know. Try telephoning you district councillor and asking her/him.

I would actually like to see teaching assistants, for example, paid more - especially now that they are being required to gain NVQs, etc. They are often appointed to provide support for very difficult children in mainstream schools and work irregular hours. However, I don't see why they should be treated any differently to the rest of the work force in terms of how their pensions are funded.

Mr Angry - indeed.

perhaps if you were not such a patronising so and so you would not attract such a reaction from people.

I am glad you would like to see teaching assistants paid more, if you knew something about it you would know that last year they were also in dispute when the local authorities tried and suceeded to cut their paid holidays by two weeks.( Yes lammy my wife now works an extra two weeks for free - which is nice)

My main gripe , I reiterate is that the government of the day think that by attacking the weak and vunerable and those with no power in society they can get away with it, and reading the postys on this thread, perhaps they are right.


Oh and BTW, teaching assistants are not all able to do NVQ's as school funding is such that a NVQ 3 Qualified TA attracts a grading of C or D, salaries ranging from £7.00 to £9.00 ph and schools are resticted by LEA's to the amounts of grades they allowed to employ. Therefore in most circumstances it is cheaper to employ a grade A at £5 ph or a Mum just there to help out for free

 

[Gritt23]

My dad crossed a picket line years ago when he was a train driver on BR. There were strikes all the bloody time, and Dad had 4 kids to feed at home, so he couldn't afford to miss out on the pay by striking.

He did what he had to do to put food on the table, and massive respect to him for doing it, because it wasn't an easy thing to do.

Those who were his "friends" for as much as 20 years, who never spoke to him again afterwards, are entitled to their opinions, but if they couldn't understand why my dad had to do what he did, then they were no friends really.

 

[Rougvie]

In the Airline game a lot of self employed engineers and quality guys (like myself) positvely wet themselves when strike action at say BA is announced.

I've got no problem crossing a picket line in a dispute that has nothing what so ever to do with me, when you are self employed one persons misfortune is anothers gain.

 

[Dandyman]

So, lets have a look at how those harding working bosses in private industry subject themselves to the rigours of pension reform... On 1 November John Sunderland, the president of the CBI bosses’ organisation, wrote to the government savaging ministers for allowing present public sector workers to retire at 60.

Sunderland (annual income £2,291,000 as head of Cadbury Schweppes) has amassed a pension pot of £14 million. If he retires at 60 he will collect £5,000 a week pension. He is far from alone.

Directors of Britain’s 100 most important companies have amassed pensions worth a total of £1 billion which, on average, would pay out £167,000 a year if claimed now.

This is over 26 times the national average of £129 a week and over 30 times the average public sector pension.

And they don’t wait until 65, let alone 67 to grab their loot. The annual reports of the top 50 British companies show that of the 54 directors mentioned, just one has to wait to 65 to get their money while 46 retire at 60 on a full pension.

Meanwhile MPs and cabinet ministers can retire on two thirds of their final salary after 27 year service.

To those that have, shall be given it seems....

 

[London Calling]

So, lets have a look at how those harding working bosses in private industry subject themselves to the rigours of pension reform... On 1 November John Sunderland, the president of the CBI bosses’ organisation, wrote to the government savaging ministers for allowing present public sector workers to retire at 60.

Sunderland (annual income £2,291,000 as head of Cadbury Schweppes) has amassed a pension pot of £14 million. If he retires at 60 he will collect £5,000 a week pension. He is far from alone.

Directors of Britain’s 100 most important companies have amassed pensions worth a total of £1 billion which, on average, would pay out £167,000 a year if claimed now.

This is over 26 times the national average of £129 a week and over 30 times the average public sector pension.

And they don’t wait until 65, let alone 67 to grab their loot. The annual reports of the top 50 British companies show that of the 54 directors mentioned, just one has to wait to 65 to get their money while 46 retire at 60 on a full pension.

Meanwhile MPs and cabinet ministers can retire on two thirds of their final salary after 27 year service.

To those that have, shall be given it seems....

Were you out yesterday?

To all envious Private pension people, get yourself Unionised and get them to fight for a good pension scheme, don't whinge about public sector workers getting a better deal. Our forefathers have fought for this.


Why don't some of you change your job to a Local Authority or Health Authority to benefit from the great Pension schemes.

But be aware. You must accepy low wages, often long hours, you will often work in poor conditions, often dealing with people with major social problems. You will face abuse, violence, intimidation.

As it happens I've done 17 years local government service, I have worked for private firms, I have owned my own Company.

Eaxh has its strenghts and weaknesses.

LC

 

[sully]

I think that most people have missed the point. Or perhaps I have.

I thought the strike was predominantly about the abolishion of the 85 year rule. I may be wrong as that certainly wasn't the spin put on it yesterday.

The pension scheme in question pays out a proportion of final salary based on years service, does it not?

That makes me think that by working for another 5 years, these people will get a higher pension, as the rule takes into account 25 years service, which I can't see would give a full pension.

Thus, two people doing the same job. One has done it for 25 years, the other raised a family first and therefore only has 20 years service at age 60. Why should one of them be entitled to retire and the other not?

I'm not saying the way it's being removed is right. I just don't understand why it is worth fighting to retain when most people don't keep a job for life any more.

 

[sully]

Why don't some of you change your job to a Local Authority or Health Authority to benefit from the great Pension schemes.

But be aware. You must accepy low wages, often long hours, you will often work in poor conditions, often dealing with people with major social problems. You will face abuse, violence, intimidation.

As you claim to have worked outside of local government, you'll know that that statement is total bollocks then? Long hours are a fact of life for many more people in the private sector than you appear to imagine. But then you ran your own company, so you'll know that it can be done whilst working 15 hours a week!

And try dealing with a brickie you haven't paid for a couple of months because you don't think he's done a very good job if you want abuse, violence, intimidation.

Why do people always think they're the hard done by ones?

 

[Dandyman]

Were you out yesterday?

To all envious Private pension people, get yourself Unionised and get them to fight for a good pension scheme, don't whinge about public sector workers getting a better deal. Our forefathers have fought for this.


Why don't some of you change your job to a Local Authority or Health Authority to benefit from the great Pension schemes.

But be aware. You must accepy low wages, often long hours, you will often work in poor conditions, often dealing with people with major social problems. You will face abuse, violence, intimidation.

As it happens I've done 17 years local government service, I have worked for private firms, I have owned my own Company.

Eaxh has its strenghts and weaknesses.

LC

I was out and your post is spot on.

 

[chip]

Care to give me some examples of non-jobs or is that just another illustration of your ivory tower existence ?

There are plenty, just look here: jobs.gaurdian.co.uk

for exaple, Head of Transformational Change
Wirral Metropolitan Borough Council
Merseyside
£69,868
Working with all departments, you will act as a catalyst to help embed new systems and ways of working, with a focus on joined-up service provision and the experience of our customers.

The point I am trying to make is that there are many millions of people who have seen their pensions dissappear. About 26% of money raised by council tax is used to pay pensions (GE Life). Why should people who have seen their own pensions depleted be forced to pay to maintain other peoples at a level they can only dream of? The government hasn't stepped into help Equitable Life pensioners, so why these local government ones? It should be fair for all pensioners and reflect their contributions.

Also, I don't think it is fair to saddle the next generation with the bills for our pensions. They now have to pay for education, houses will cost them more and they will have to retire even later than us. We should all take responsibility for our own financial arrangements because, if nothing else, this shows us that the government cannot be trusted to spend our money wisley if it has made promises it cannot keep.

As for your figures for company bosses, would you care to do the same for footballers, film stars, pop stars etc., or is it just jealousy? I would agree with you about MPs though and recently councillors have voted themselves pension rights.

 

[chip]

As you claim to have worked outside of local government, you'll know that that statement is total bollocks then? Long hours are a fact of life for many more people in the private sector than you appear to imagine. But then you ran your own company, so you'll know that it can be done whilst working 15 hours a week!

And try dealing with a brickie you haven't paid for a couple of months because you don't think he's done a very good job if you want abuse, violence, intimidation.

Why do people always think they're the hard done by ones?

Spot on, well said Sully.

 

[jonogulls]

So....because some other people have had bad luck with their pensions, that makes it right for the government to break their CONTRACTUAL agreement with me?

I can't break my contract at social services, so why the f*** can they?

 

[sully]

So....because some other people have had bad luck with their pensions, that makes it right for the government to break their CONTRACTUAL agreement with me?

I can't break my contract at social services, so why the f*** can they?

We all went through it about 15 years ago when most companies closed their final salary schemes. They now don't pay into the private schemes that replaced them.

Just think yourself lucky that you've not been shafted like the rest of us. Or has the final salary bit been taken away, too?

 

[Dandyman]

There are plenty, just look here: jobs.gaurdian.co.uk

for exaple, Head of Transformational Change
Wirral Metropolitan Borough Council
Merseyside
£69,868
Working with all departments, you will act as a catalyst to help embed new systems and ways of working, with a focus on joined-up service provision and the experience of our customers.

The point I am trying to make is that there are many millions of people who have seen their pensions dissappear. About 26% of money raised by council tax is used to pay pensions (GE Life). Why should people who have seen their own pensions depleted be forced to pay to maintain other peoples at a level they can only dream of? The government hasn't stepped into help Equitable Life pensioners, so why these local government ones? It should be fair for all pensioners and reflect their contributions.

Also, I don't think it is fair to saddle the next generation with the bills for our pensions. They now have to pay for education, houses will cost them more and they will have to retire even later than us. We should all take responsibility for our own financial arrangements because, if nothing else, this shows us that the government cannot be trusted to spend our money wisley if it has made promises it cannot keep.

As for your figures for company bosses, would you care to do the same for footballers, film stars, pop stars etc., or is it just jealousy? I would agree with you about MPs though and recently councillors have voted themselves pension rights.

It's not jealousy. It's an attempt to expose the blatant hypocrisy of those who are lobbying to worsen pension provision for working people (and no doubt provider a nice earner for the private pensions industry) while lining their own pockets.

Any working population is effectively paying for those who have retired. Nothing has changed in that scenario.

The Local Government Pension Scheme (LGPS) is a contributory scheme that takes 6% of my monthly salary. Far from living in lavish retirement the average local government pensioner has a pension of around £3k. As LC has posted the fight should be about ensuring decent pension provision for all not a bigoted and cynical attacking on the working conditions of often low paid public servants.

 

[smudge]

I had to help cover the fire fighters strike a couple of years ago.
It was f***ing great & we must have been the most popular scabs ever!

 

[sully]

The Local Government Pension Scheme (LGPS) is a contributory scheme that takes 6% of my monthly salary. Far from living in lavish retirement the average local government pensioner has a pension of around £3k.

On the basis that Employers do not pay into private schemes, you have to put in twice that much to get a decent pension.

The shift to personal pensions is exactly so that each generation does not have to pay for the pensions of the previous one. In effect, we are currently paying for our parents pensions at the same time as saving for our own so that our children don't have to pay ours.

Our generation will suffer the bad planning of the past, but it will hopefully provide a better situation for our children to inherit.

 

[See-Goals]

If you don't like it get another job. Transfer your pension to a private one and see how much the rest of us have to pay in to retire at 60. Then you will see why there is little sympathy outside the public sector.

My Mother in law is a teacher, she was able to sign in and still not go to work so that she got paid. Now what the f*** is that all about?

Dude - Teachers don't pay into the LGPS, they have a separate (better) scheme which they pay into.

Another council slave here who didn't strike yesterday

(Awaits slating from union junkies)

 

[Dandyman]

Dude - Teachers don't pay into the LGPS, they have a separate (better) scheme which they pay into.

Another council slave here who didn't strike yesterday

(Awaits slating from union junkies)

Teachers are in the TPS as you say and therefore were not invoplved in industrial action.

I am an HR Manager and so usually on the other side of the table to the HR reps. On this occassion, however, I am standing right behind them.

 

[London Calling]

As you claim to have worked outside of local government, you'll know that that statement is total bollocks then? Long hours are a fact of life for many more people in the private sector than you appear to imagine. But then you ran your own company, so you'll know that it can be done whilst working 15 hours a week!

And try dealing with a brickie you haven't paid for a couple of months because you don't think he's done a very good job if you want abuse, violence, intimidation.

Why do people always think they're the hard done by ones?

Just pointing out, that long hours are not unique to any sector.

As a project manager on construction schemes, I have done the brickie thing and would prefer that to the nut cases that walk thru our hospital and local authority doors.