Anyone ever cross a picket line?

[Lord Bracknell]

I once found myself the wrong side of a picket line which formed outside the Radio Sussex building in Marlborough Place when one of the techie unions walked out for an hour, midway through a live interview that I was doing with Barry Johnston (son of the great Brian), alongside a senior Labour councillor from Brighton Council.

The councillor in question dug us out of the hole by expressing his support for the strike on air.

As for today's action, I was pleased to be able to express my support by talking to the picket line standing outside Brighton University in Lewes Road, fighting to preserve the pension rights that I am currently enjoying and which pay for my season ticket.

 

[The Great Cornholio]

I once found myself the wrong side of a picket line which formed outside the Radio Sussex building in Marlborough Place when one of the techie unions walked out for an hour, midway through a live interview that I was doing with Barry Johnston (son of the great Brian), alongside a senior Labour councillor from Brighton Council.

The councillor in question dug us out of the hole by expressing his support for the strike on air.

As for today's action, I was pleased to be able to express my support by talking to the picket line standing outside Brighton University in Lewes Road, fighting to preserve the pension rights that I am currently enjoying and which pay for my season ticket.

But if, today, someone had come to fix the electrics or clean the drains or somesuch - would you expect them to respect the picket line? And if so, why?

I thought the ethos of socialism was that everyone is equal. But it seems like you are only equal if you share the same political views and do what you are told, regardless of your views. Does that make everyone equal, only some more equal than others?

Phophetic bloke, that George Orwell.

 

[Cian]

pension rights that I am currently enjoying and which pay for my season ticket.

Thats all it pays for I knew pensions had got bad but never knew they were that low these days

BTW, what were you doing on the 67A bus in Dublin today... that or it was Branson.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

[ The metering reading staff had a sit in one morning until the big boss went to meet them and talk to them. [/B][/QUOTE]

Was that all the metering reading staff or an estimated amount

 

[Lord Bracknell]

But if, today, someone had come to fix the electrics or clean the drains or somesuch - would you expect them to respect the picket line? And if so, why?

Having stood on a picket line in my time, all I would say is that the feeling of wellbeing that comes when a delivery driver or post office worker turns his vehicle round is magical.

Today's picket lines at Brighton University weren't trying to turn people back. They were simply handing out leaflets and discovering how much support they had from the public and fellow workers.

I hope they had a good day.

 

[The Great Cornholio]

Having stood on a picket line in my time, all I would say is that the feeling of wellbeing that comes when a delivery driver or post office worker turns his vehicle round is magical.

Today's picket lines at Brighton University weren't trying to turn people back. They were simply handing out leaflets and discovering how much support they had from the public and fellow workers.

I hope they had a good day.

That's fair enough - personal choice and personal views. It is the people who will automatically shout scab without regards for any circumstances that get my goat. They seem to think that Citizen Smith was a rulebook rather than a parody.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Never crossed one.

 

[Dave the OAP]

alright some of you sanctimoniuos people on here, explain to me why my wife should work until she is 65 to draw a full pension when the person sat next to her doing the same job can retire on full pension at 60.

Is that fair?

Of course it fecking well isn't and that is why people are taking action, not cos they are workshy lefties, its because they have a genuine grievance with this government, who are quite happy to give fecking perrages out to some nob who gives them a million pounds......I bet those bastards at westminster dont retire at 65 on a fecking pittance of a pension.

 

[Yorkie]

alright some of you sanctimoniuos people on here, explain to me why my wife should work until she is 65 to draw a full pension when the person sat next to her doing the same job can retire on full pension at 60.

Is that fair?

Of course it fecking well isn't and that is why people are taking action, not cos they are workshy lefties, its because they have a genuine grievance with this government, who are quite happy to give fecking perrages out to some nob who gives them a million pounds......I bet those bastards at westminster dont retire at 65 on a fecking pittance of a pension.

That is referring to company pensions. The Government did it several years ago.
I can retire in 2 years time and get a state pension because I was born before April 1950.
Women born between 1950 and 1955 have to work until they 63 and any woman born after 1955 has to work til 65 now.
Equal opportunities and women's lib? No thanks.

 

[London Calling]

A nice balanced, objective view. Thanks for that. I suppose come the Glorious Day, I will be up against the wall, eh?

Why the hell should I risk my job for a cause I'm ambivilant about? Esepcially when both the unions at our company told us to cross them and when Unison had said they only wanted members of Unison and other unions who are affected and in support to strike? Because of your glorious workers unite motto? If that makes me a scab, then so be it. Says more about the name callers than me, IMHO.

Unfortunately, I doubt the glorious day will ever happen.

Legally, Unions have to take the "impartial" line. Luckily for me, when I haved faced a picket line when my Union was not involved. I was fully in support of the strike action - that would also benefit myself. As such I had no such dilema.


I have friends who were out for the whole of the Miners strike - so I make no apologies for people who reap the benefits of industrial action but who are not prepared to take such action - leeches.

I understand that this may not apply to GC and I apologise if I insulted you.

LC

 

[London Irish]

If I wasn't at work i'd be tempted to pretend to be a council worker and cross their picket just to prove a point. I've got to work until i'm 60, why shouldn't they.

They are being made to work until they are 65 when they were previously told 60. Get it now fella?

 

[chip]

Isn't there a £27 billion hole in their pension scheme? There is also an absurd 85 rule whereby if an employees age and years of service add up to 85 they can retire on a full pension. If I am not much mistaken, to fund all of this, with the increase in life expectancy, employers need to contribute an extra £6 billion a year. I wonder where that will come from?

They should do an Equitable Life and slash the payments just as happened to hundereds of thousands of other pensioners/contributors. Sorry, no sympathy for them, why should they be treated any differently to anyone else?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Isn't there a £27 billion hole in their pension scheme? There is also an absurd 85 rule whereby if an employees age and years of service add up to 85 they can retire on a full pension. If I am not much mistaken, to fund all of this, with the increase in life expectancy, employers need to contribute an extra £6 billion a year. I wonder where that will come from?

They should do an Equitable Life and slash the payments just as happened to hundereds of thousands of other pensioners/contributors. Sorry, no sympathy for them, why should they be treated any differently to anyone else?

There are many separately managed local government pension funds, but all pay out using the same rules (that are laid down in law).

It was known YEARS AGO that some of the funds were being starved of cash. And the reason for this was that the employers were not putting their contributions in. The reason they didn't was to hold down the rates. Thatcher's government - naturally enough - supported this piece of thievery.

When Robert Maxwell stole the Mirror Group pension fund, he was rightly labelled a crook. When a local council did the same thing, they were hailed as "prudent".

Current public sector staff are now expected to pay for this . It's disgraceful.

 

[London Irish]

As this is the same "employer" that happily wastes billions in pointless foreign wars, I reckon the money can be found for important stuff like keeping promises to workers about their pensions.

 

[JSD Albion]

The reason that councils (and many others) reduced or ceased contributions was that the schemes were so far in surplus that they breached their own rules. The contributions holiday was therefore an actuarial requirement. Equally, when the schemes fall into deficit the employer is required to make it good. In this case, the employer will pay by increasing council tax or whatever source of uncompetitive income they survive on. If a private company did this it would go bust - and don't for one moment think that the pension protection fund would fill the gap anything like as well as your average council tax payer. Meanwhile, the employee still contributes, if anything, just 6% of their salary.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

The reason that councils (and many others) reduced or ceased contributions was that the schemes were so far in surplus that they breached their own rules. The contributions holiday was therefore an actuarial requirement. Equally, when the schemes fall into deficit the employer is required to make it good. In this case, the employer will pay by increasing council tax or whatever source of uncompetitive income they survive on. If a private company did this it would go bust - and don't for one moment think that the pension protection fund would fill the gap anything like as well as your average council tax payer. Meanwhile, the employee still contributes, if anything, just 6% of their salary.

But the inherent weakness of the "rules" was fully understood at the time - the so-called "surplus" was an illusion and was bound to disappear in time.

It was obvious, even in the 1980s, that this crisis would eventually loom large. The Thatcher government understood that. And chose to do nothing about it.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

And another thing ...

Suddenly announcing that people will have to work longer before qualifying for a pension simply has the effect of denying access by young people to the public sector labour market. Vacancies won't arise at the bottom of the career ladder if people don't leave from the top of it.

It's not just current public sector workers who are suffering. It's the whole economy that will have to adjust to this distortion.

 

[chip]

Current public sector staff are now expected to pay for this . It's disgraceful.

No, what is disgraceful is that people like you think that these pensions should be protected, often by people who have seen thier own pensions reuduced, by increased council taxes and other taxation. This is the single largest cause of the increases in local taxation since Brown started taxing pension fund dividends. It would be outrageous to expect young people, just starting out in their working lives to subsidize these funds to make up the shortfall. EVERYONE ELSE HAS SEEN THEIR PENSIONS MESSED UP, WHY SHOULD THESE PEOPLE BE TREATED DIFFERENTLY?

Its no good blaming Mrs T, that was 15 years ago. Brown and Blair have had nearly a decade to start to address this problem. If the economy is doing so well and has been so well managed, why is there a problem at all? Face it, there are far too many people in local government employment and they generally don't do as good a job as the private sector in terms of value for money. They certainly don't deserve to have their employers 13.5% contribution hiked even higher so that they can shirk off at 60.

 

[Chopper West]

No, what is disgraceful is that people like you think that these pensions should be protected, often by people who have seen thier own pensions reuduced, by increased council taxes and other taxation. This is the single largest cause of the increases in local taxation since Brown started taxing pension fund dividends. It would be outrageous to expect young people, just starting out in their working lives to subsidize these funds to make up the shortfall. EVERYONE ELSE HAS SEEN THEIR PENSIONS MESSED UP, WHY SHOULD THESE PEOPLE BE TREATED DIFFERENTLY?

Its no good blaming Mrs T, that was 15 years ago. Brown and Blair have had nearly a decade to start to address this problem. If the economy is doing so well and has been so well managed, why is there a problem at all? Face it, there are far too many people in local government employment and they generally don't do as good a job as the private sector in terms of value for money. They certainly don't deserve to have their employers 13.5% contribution hiked even higher so that they can shirk off at 60.

Does this mean that you crossed the picket line for the Lecturer's strike a couple of weeks ago then Chip, in pursuit of an increase in a PL's salary from £45,000 for the 15 hour week?

 

[The Great Cornholio]

Unfortunately, I doubt the glorious day will ever happen.

Legally, Unions have to take the "impartial" line. Luckily for me, when I haved faced a picket line when my Union was not involved. I was fully in support of the strike action - that would also benefit myself. As such I had no such dilema.


I have friends who were out for the whole of the Miners strike - so I make no apologies for people who reap the benefits of industrial action but who are not prepared to take such action - leeches.

I understand that this may not apply to GC and I apologise if I insulted you.

LC

Not insulted - just felt like stirring up a debate!