[Politics] Any views on the Government giving out untendered contracts on PPE?

[nicko31]

Yes - also compare and contrast: billions of taxpayer cash wasted by incompetence, cronyism and corruption seems to be excused or brushed under the carpet, yet full condemnation for Lewis Hamilton for merely maximising his tax efficiency

#controlledbythemedia

Terms used by the certain members of the Tory party in the past few years...

gravy trains
run by unelected unaccountable technocrats
acting like dictators
vast waste of public funds
unmerited promotions

So glad we're taking back control

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

If you feel all this is a bit corrupt, you can complain to the govt’s Anti-Corruption Champion, John Penrose, who is married to Dido Harding

 

[maltaseagull]

Every government in the world? Look at South Korea, look at New Zealand. Their death toll is in tens not tens of thousands.

Britain has the highest death toll in Europe.

1. South Korea had stocked up with PPE after previous outbreaks of Bird flu and another virus which did not reach the West as a pandemic.
2. Comparing NZ to the UK is chalk and cheese. Much sparser population and they locked down totally very quickly.
With hindsight, earlier lockdown would have reduced the death toll.

I think this tragedy has affected the whole world in a way unseen since Spanish Flu. The UK government has not dealt with it well but this is NOT a political issue despite the efforts of the usual suspects to blame the "Tory Scum" for everything.
I will not agree with anyone who claims that the Government has deliberately taken or not taken measures which has resulted in increased deaths.

Perhaps under Corbyn, Albion would be a top 6 side too?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

1. South Korea had stocked up with PPE after previous outbreaks of Bird flu and another virus which did not reach the West as a pandemic.
2. Comparing NZ to the UK is chalk and cheese. Much sparser population and they locked down totally very quickly.
With hindsight, earlier lockdown would have reduced the death toll.

I think this tragedy has affected the whole world in a way unseen since Spanish Flu. The UK government has not dealt with it well but this is NOT a political issue despite the efforts of the usual suspects to blame the "Tory Scum" for everything.
I will not agree with anyone who claims that the Government has deliberately taken or not taken measures which has resulted in increased deaths.

Perhaps under Corbyn, Albion would be a top 6 side too?

Chalk and cheese? We are an island. People arriving at Heathrow and other airports without even a temperature check?

What’s Corbyn got to do with the Albion? Are you insinuating that I’m a Labour supporter because I’m not.
Pure whataboutery from you.

 

[WATFORD zero]

1. South Korea had stocked up with PPE after previous outbreaks of Bird flu and another virus which did not reach the West as a pandemic.
2. Comparing NZ to the UK is chalk and cheese. Much sparser population and they locked down totally very quickly.
With hindsight, earlier lockdown would have reduced the death toll.

I think this tragedy has affected the whole world in a way unseen since Spanish Flu. The UK government has not dealt with it well but this is NOT a political issue despite the efforts of the usual suspects to blame the "Tory Scum" for everything.
I will not agree with anyone who claims that the Government has deliberately taken or not taken measures which has resulted in increased deaths.

Perhaps under Corbyn, Albion would be a top 6 side too?

I certainly agree with that completely.

But the issue I have is whether deaths have resulted indirectly through not prioritising effectively, allowing political advice to override scientific advice, simple incompetence and the main issue on this particular thread, funds being wrongly prioritised due to cronyism.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

1. South Korea had stocked up with PPE after previous outbreaks of Bird flu and another virus which did not reach the West as a pandemic.
2. Comparing NZ to the UK is chalk and cheese. Much sparser population and they locked down totally very quickly.
With hindsight, earlier lockdown would have reduced the death toll.

I think this tragedy has affected the whole world in a way unseen since Spanish Flu. The UK government has not dealt with it well but this is NOT a political issue despite the efforts of the usual suspects to blame the "Tory Scum" for everything.
I will not agree with anyone who claims that the Government has deliberately taken or not taken measures which has resulted in increased deaths.

Perhaps under Corbyn, Albion would be a top 6 side too?

So you think a decade of underfunding the NHS and being severely understaffed with almost 43,000 nurse and 10,000 doctor vacancies a) isn't political and b) hasn't hindered our response to the pandemic

And, in regards to Corbyn, it isn’t much of a stretch to imagine he wouldn’t go down the same selfish, self serving path that Johnson and the Tories have

 

[nicko31]

If you feel all this is a bit corrupt, you can complain to the govt’s Anti-Corruption Champion, John Penrose, who is married to Dido Harding

If we vote in liars on a populist ticket this is what you get, most of UK print media will not print this stuff.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

1. South Korea had stocked up with PPE after previous outbreaks of Bird flu and another virus which did not reach the West as a pandemic.
2. Comparing NZ to the UK is chalk and cheese. Much sparser population and they locked down totally very quickly.
With hindsight, earlier lockdown would have reduced the death toll.

I think this tragedy has affected the whole world in a way unseen since Spanish Flu. The UK government has not dealt with it well but this is NOT a political issue despite the efforts of the usual suspects to blame the "Tory Scum" for everything.
I will not agree with anyone who claims that the Government has deliberately taken or not taken measures which has resulted in increased deaths.

Perhaps under Corbyn, Albion would be a top 6 side too?

You’re correct that Asia was better prepared because of experience in dealing with pandemics. I think SARS is the one you were thinking of but there are others like Bird Flu that was a threat when we lived in Singapore. They also live with Dengue and I remember checking the Government website for updates one time to find an outbreak a few streets away. We were always worried if bitten by mosquitos. One of our daughter’s friends died of a virus that attacks the brain (I have forgotten the name of that one). The current pandemic is a huge wake up call to Western citizens and unfortunately the reaction of many has not been impressive whether it be non mask wearing, attending mass gatherings or trying to use the situation for political or financial advantage.

 

[beorhthelm]

1. South Korea had stocked up with PPE after previous outbreaks of Bird flu and another virus which did not reach the West as a pandemic.
2. Comparing NZ to the UK is chalk and cheese. Much sparser population and they locked down totally very quickly.
With hindsight, earlier lockdown would have reduced the death toll.

I think this tragedy has affected the whole world in a way unseen since Spanish Flu. The UK government has not dealt with it well but this is NOT a political issue despite the efforts of the usual suspects to blame the "Tory Scum" for everything.
I will not agree with anyone who claims that the Government has deliberately taken or not taken measures which has resulted in increased deaths.

Perhaps under Corbyn, Albion would be a top 6 side too?

there hasnt been a country prepared for this, SK and NZ just reacted better than most (we wouldnt have accepted the NZ lockdown either). every country has had problems with PPE, equipment, capacities, carehome infections, high death rates seen aross Europe, along with rising rates due to late or inappropriate response. every complaint here is echod everywhere. the best explanation is that healthcare strategists planned for a "different type of pandemic", which is woolly but consistent with the near universal failure to cope.

 

[maffew]

Sometimes things need to be done quickly, not properly. Some geezer saw an opportunity, government needed PPE in high demand immediately to save lives. If the government arsed around with tenders to save money, they would have been slaughtered.
Jobs a good un here imo

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

I haven’t expressed a view on the stated title of the thread so why would you think I disagree with the OP ? I don’t. I was simply pointing out the actual reason for the existence of this thread and the OP’s ongoing crusade against his perceived victimization by the mods. Try understanding the context and read the Corbyn thread. Or don’t.

I did say "maybe".

But the OP had a point, so part of the point of the post was to support that. Nothing personal.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

There should and will be a public inquiry after this is over.

According to your view then, every Government in the entire world is not worth it's salt (Even the left wing ones!)

Nobody was able to forsee and plan for this until it struck.

Agreed there have been some monumental mistakes made along the way but in reality, do your REALLY think it would have been better to go through a lengthy tendering process to procure equipment that everyone was trying to source? It was just like the public in supermarkets trying to stock up on pasta and bog rolls.
(I am sure you had plenty in stock just in case?)

The manufacturers of the equipment should have forseen this and stockpiled billions of pieces of kit just in case FFS?
Governments should do the same ? With your money? Get some reality here. Every Government has to work to a budget.

If the pandemic hadn't arrived, what would the people have said about spending billions on PEP and ventilators etc just in case, rather than spending on other urgent needs?

Every government is not worth its salt....... I read today that our total deaths in absolute terms is the fifth highest in the world behind the USA, India, Brazil and Mexico. All those countries have populations far higher than ours. We would therefore seem to have easily one of the worst performing governments in the world in this respect.

Nobody able to foresee and plan........ I can not quote chapter and verse, but am well aware that Public Health experts and others have been waiting for and expecting a heavyweight pandemic for a long time and that levels of PPE recommended to be held were very clear....... and we were nowhere...... but nowhere...... near those levels.

IF we had respected the recommendations on the levels of PPE etc needed, we would not have needed to panic. A COMPETENT government would have done tgat, and i would have been very happy for them to do it with my money. I would very much accept the point about not having time to go thriugh a lengthy tendering process, but what has actually happened is enormously suspect - either absolute total incompetence, disgusting levels of cronyism or a mixture of the two....... giving huge contracts to organisations set up days before by people who have NO track record on the business in hand but who have been major donors to the Conservative party.........?

If the Pandemic hadn't arrived?..... well, it did. And so we ended up paying way over the odds for what we did end up buying, while plenty of those who supplied it are laughing all the way to the bank. ....... and the Tory Press is kicking up about this as well......

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Nobody able to foresee and plan........ I can not quote chapter and verse, but am well aware that Public Health experts and others have been waiting for and expecting a heavyweight pandemic for a long time and that levels of PPE recommended to be held were very clear....... and we were nowhere...... but nowhere...... near those levels.

IF we had respected the recommendations on the levels of PPE etc needed, we would not have needed to panic. A COMPETENT government would have done tgat, and i would have been very happy for them to do it with my money. I would very much accept the point about not having time to go thriugh a lengthy tendering process, but what has actually happened is enormously suspect - either absolute total incompetence, disgusting levels of cronyism or a mixture of the two....... giving huge contracts to organisations set up days before by people who have NO track record on the business in hand but who have been major donors to the Conservative party.........?

If the Pandemic hadn't arrived?..... well, it did. And so we ended up paying way over the odds for what we did end up buying, while plenty of those who supplied it are laughing all the way to the bank. ....... and the Tory Press is kicking up about this as well......

Operation Cygnus in 2016 was about preparing for an epidemic. Its findings were ignored.

 

[nicko31]

Johnson is losing allies

 

[dejavuatbtn]

If we knew the true cost of wastage in the NHS (and many other publicly funded institutions for that matter) we would spend all our time on such threads and very little on the football.
In this case, whilst not condoning the behind the scenes spending of £21m, this consultancy fee was a spit in the bucket of what was being spent at a time when we were in danger of being bottom of the PPE queue. That said, there needs to be more accountability regarding “jobs for the boys (and girls)” and the dishing out of contracts, titles, and jobs to your mates.

 

[WATFORD zero]

If we knew the true cost of wastage in the NHS (and many other publicly funded institutions for that matter) we would spend all our time on such threads and very little on the football.
In this case, whilst not condoning the behind the scenes spending of £21m, this consultancy fee was a spit in the bucket of what was being spent at a time when we were in danger of being bottom of the PPE queue. That said, there needs to be more accountability regarding “jobs for the boys (and girls)” and the dishing out of contracts, titles, and jobs to your mates.

When I first posted this thread it was a result of the 'consultancy' fee, which I thought was a lot of money, but could have been justified in certain situations.

However, with minimal investigation into further PPE contracts, I discovered the number of contracts awarded to companies with no history in PPE (and often no history full stop) and links to Government ministers, peers, people who work with Government and people who donate to the party of Government. I would love to hear the case for awarding a contract to a new start (or dormant) company within days of start up, with no history, experience or staff. When the Government awards in this manner it appears to me, in most cases, at the very least to be worth further investigation to decide whether the award was the result of due diligence, cronyism or any other reason.

I think everybody appreciates that these contracts had to be awarded quickly, without tendering, but at the very least there should have been some sort of documentation of the case for the award of the contract. This should be very simple and quick to review, if the Government would simply give a relevant authority the access.

If, has been suggested by some, this investigation is left until this is all over. I can guarantee that if that happens, the money, evidence and people involved will have long since disappeared.